The 60 and over Thread

[Sean]

The irons I'm looking at as replacements are only slightly stronger.

I never really paid attention to lofts. I had a set with a 27º 7-iron and now that's the loft of my 6-iron, which used to be the loft of my old 5-iron. As long as I know how far I hit each club that's all I really care about. One thing I've noticed is if someone asks me what club you I hit on a par 3 for example, telling him might be meaningless as my club might be xº and his might zº. Lofts can become an ego thing too...a golfer is now hitting a 7-iron instead of a 5-iron gets really psyched, even though the lofts are the same.

As far as distance goes I find it secondary to accuracy and playing the right tees. If I play the right tees, distance isn't an issue, and if I hit it in play, I can score. Besides, I'm closer to 70 than 65 and don't feel the need to strain myself trying to gain a few more yards. If I was an "ego" golfer, and was playing further back, then yeah, I'd probably be obsessed with distance. But I'm not, so I don't.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Retired and 68. High handicap. Looking at new smart sole chipper and lob. have now three older smart soles but also cbx 52,56 and 60 as back up. Have tri hot putter. Have 2,3,4 hybrids and 5 -9 irons as well as halo driver, 5 wood and 7 woods. Have hit the hybrids well and 5 wood not so well. Buy smart soles or buy more hybrids? What to drop? What next after first purchase.

 

[JonMA1]

In theory, the shorter the club, the easier it is to swing well (“well” meaning better face control and better contact).
If there’s any truth to that, a shorter club that gets the same distance as a longer club might be an advantage, no?

That said, I agree with your point, @Sean. Even with diminishing distance, better accuracy is still going to help my scores much, much more than gaining distance.

I mentioned this in another post, but I swung a strong lofted 7i recently and was hitting it a mile… just not very straight.

As far as the “right” tees, there’s going to be an optimum distance for every player on a given course and it’s not always determined by how far we hit our driver or our handicap. In the end, it’s about what set of tees brings enjoyment… that’s a personal choice.

 

[El Rayo X]

I have those MMT 60 Senior Flex shafts in a set of PXG 0211DC irons, but feel the UST Recoil ES shafts in my Apex CF19 irons, being a little heavier, is a better fit. I had those Apex irons adjusted 2° strong last fall. I recently put them back in the bag, and I am hitting them as long, if not longer, than the PXGs despite the PXGs still having a little stronger lofts and being 1/2" longer. Thinking seriously about getting fit with primary interest in the 0311P irons, 2° strong, with the Recoil shafts.

I was messing with the AI Smoke irons the yesterday with both the Tensei Blue 65 R and White 75 R, and my strikes were much better with the Tensei White 75

 

[InTheRough]

I'm going to multiple on this post:

1) The course rating from 5600 for me is 72.3/121. From 6300 it's 76.0/129. So if I regularly shoot 90 from 5600, I should shoot 96 from 6300, but that's not how it works. It's more like shooting 102 from 6300 because distance matters. For you guys, the course from 5600 is 67.1/117 and from 6300 it's 70.3/120. It basically boils down to "would you rather shoot 90 from 5600, or 102 from 6300?"

2) RE: progressive lenses. I can't even drive a car w/ progressive lenses. I become a hazard on the road. Golf would be a nightmare. I tell the doctors exactly what I want. What good are private doctors if they don't do what you tell them? Fortunately, now my eyes have changed to where I no longer need distance glasses. I can just buy a pair of sunglasses for golf off the rack.

3) I finally go the go ahead from the PT to hit a small bucket of balls. No driver yet. So I went yesterday with my 54, GW, 8i and hybrid. God I suck. Okay it's the first time I've swung a club since June. The wedge wasn't too bad. the 8i? Either I've lost a lot of distance or something is wrong. I've also lost 30 lbs, so maybe that's part of it. But it felt like I was swinging a board. The hybrid felt okay. I won't know the full damage until I start the driver and can get on a sim to find out where my SS is. That might be in a couple of weeks.

 

[InTheRough]

Retired and 68. High handicap. Looking at new smart sole chipper and lob. have now three older smart soles but also cbx 52,56 and 60 as back up. Have tri hot putter. Have 2,3,4 hybrids and 5 -9 irons as well as halo driver, 5 wood and 7 woods. Have hit the hybrids well and 5 wood not so well. Buy smart soles or buy more hybrids? What to drop? What next after first purchase.

I would look at replacing the 5i with a hybrid and forgetting about the chipper. I don't know what brand of hybrids you're using. I play Ping. I currently play 4 & 5. The 5 has a loft of 26 deg and is my go to club for a number of different situations, including chipping from tight lies or in the rough just off the green. Plus if you get your moneysworth out of the clubface the hybrid has a bulge in the clubface for extra forgiveness on toe and heel hits. For me this year a 30 deg hybrid is on the table. Soon I may only be playing a 9i and PW from the set.

 

[bkuehn1952]

That one is huge but places like my local course they have a 121 vs 119 rating, same par, 500 yard diff and maybe one stroke

The USGA "Unrated Tee" chart places a value of about 1.3 on the course rating when the difference is 300 yards. Our club plays three sets of tees and typically the difference in tee length is about 500 yards. The course ratings for each different tee tend to be separated by about 2.0. Depending on the various slope values, the handicap difference is 2-3 strokes for players with similar indexes but playing separate tees.

Some guys don't want to give up 2-3 strokes and play further back. I think I can make up (or more accurately, save) the 2-3 strokes and moved from the Back tees to the Middle several years ago.

 

[Grand Stranded]

I’m reading and paying attention to what a lot of you are saying here today, and I’m going to take some advice and swallow my ego.
Here’s what my bag setup was on Tuesday…
Ping G425 10.5*
Callaway Rogue 15*&19* (3&5 woods)
Callaway Rogue ST Max OS 21*&24* (4&5 hybrids)
Tour Edge E722 7-AW (27.5*-46*) E722 GW (51*)
Callaway Jaws MD Raw Face 56*
Putter
see Signature below to what I’m going to switch it out to next time I play. This is probably what I should’ve done two months ago.

 

[CTRosarian]

Working on the last piece of my game. Ball speed hitting driver and fairways.
I can get a decent amount of ball speed with my irons.
I think it just a matter of proper alignment and setup to first narrow my dispersion.
Once I get that down I can hit more freely like I do with my irons.

I've had good luck with $50 single prescription glasses from Zennis. That includes the cost of auto darkening or Transitions. That feature wears out after a few years according to what I've read.

 

[tehuti]

Best wishes. Working outdoors my whole life I have seen a lot of coworkers get it. Nothing serious fortunately, but one guy has a golf ball sized divot in his calf from an excision.

I learned to like ugly bucket hats because I know several people who got skin cancer on their faces and necks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Buckeyegolfnut]

Before my cataract surgery, I, too, wore progressive lenses but had a pair of single vision lenses for golf. Zenni Optical (zennioptical.com) is a good source for cheap glasses online. Just don't get frameless ones, as they seem to have a problem with the holes lining up so they sit even on the face. I've gotten full-frame pairs as cheap as $9.95 and never paid more than $33! The price includes frames and lenses. They do come from China so it takes a couple of weeks to get them, but the money saved is worth the wait.

I noticed the same thing right after I got my first pair of progressives. I took an old pair of frames in and had them make lenses with just my distance prescription. Got my cataracts done 2 years ago, and my what a difference. I can actually see the ball land! And it's not like I hit the ball all that far anymore!

Yes, exactly. Some people say they want to play like the pros, well the pros don't hit hybrids and fairway woods into par 4's. It's really more about fragile egos than anything else.

If a golfer is going to play "ego" instead of golf, he might as well stay home as the course will kick his *ss every time.

Oh yes! It took quite some time for me to get my main golf buddy to overcome his ego. I distinctly remember we were playing a local upscale daily fee course that was one of the first to have on cart GPS. On a 400 yard par 4 he hit his normal good drive right down the middle. I asked him how far he thought he hit it, and he said about 260-270! When we got to his ball the GPS said he had 180 in, and he actually tried to tell me there was something wrong with it!

 

[1860VS]

I learned to like ugly bucket hats because I know several people who got skin cancer on their faces and necks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I had to threaten to sue my employer (the Government believe it or not) for permission to wear a hard hat with a full brim. No common sense up there.......

 

[Phil75070]

Got my cataracts done 2 years ago, and my what a difference. I can actually see the ball land! And it's not like I hit the ball all that far anymore

For years, I thought my golf game was getting better and better as I was hitting more drives out of sight. It turns out it wasn't my golf game!

 

[skigolfmike]

My 2024 plan.

I did a season-long experiment in 2023 where I purposely stopped worrying about missing long on my approach shots - basically pulling more club as so many suggest. While my approach numbers improved and my misses evened out, I felt there were more penalties. A recent audit of all the rounds from 2023 found that to be significantly true. Many of these were simply thinning a 9i or wedge, but pulling more club came with the likelihood of being a little more offline and, to a lesser degree, the occasional flushed shot that would get me in trouble past or around the green.

The takeaway from that experiment is that while a little bit of this is good, too much is bad. I need to stop worrying about stats and whether I miss short more often than some internet expert who knows almost nothing about my poor ball striking thinks I should. I love collecting stats, but it's easy for me to slip into playing stats instead of playing golf. I need to rely more on feel when pulling clubs and being ok with the results. My ball striking may not be very good, but my instincts and knowledge of my capabilities are pretty solid.

Which leads to the 2024 season and some changes...

I've had the same "stock" distances with my irons since taking up this game in my early 50's. GW @100 yds through 6i @150 yds. Now at 63, I'm noticing even my well-struck irons are yielding less distance. Shotscope told me my "performance average" for my 6i was 156 yds in 2023. Whatever methodology they use to come up with club distances, is flawed. A well-struck shot from that club on level ground and without wind is only 150. The idea of pulling that club for a 156 yard shot is simply dumb.

In 2024, that performance data needs to be completely ignored. My expected stock distance for that club will now be 140 yards. If I start missing dangerously long, I'll dial it up to 140 but I'd be surprised if that happens. If I can mentally stop trying to get a certain distance from a club (resulting in subconsciously swinging harder to insure that number is hit), I'm hoping it might free up the swing a little.

In 2022, the approach numbers were 38% short, 4% long - too cautious. With a different mindset in 2023, that changed to 22% short, 15% long. The extra penalties would suggest that erred on the side of too much risk. In 2024, I'm going to back off a little and if the results are closer to a 3:1 ratio of short vs long, that'll probably be an improvement. I have to be ok with missing short when that's the smart miss.

So yeah, letting go of what I used to do is a blow to the ego - and I've always been a short knocker to it's extra difficult to accept. My 2015 irons have weak lofts (7i - 33°). But more importantly, they are showing a lot of wear. The irons I'm looking at as replacements are only slightly stronger. If I thought distance, tech and a fitting would be the end-all, cure-all solution to my crappy swing, I'd just go with brand new, 2024 tech irons with a 27.5° 7i. But because I've become re-acquainted with how useless the fitting process and new tech can be, I'll pick the crap shoot that makes the most economical sense to me. It'll either be used OEM or new DTCs irons. and I'll gladly accept whatever, if any, extra distance they'll bring.

In the meantime, I'll continue to do a little strength training to slow down the process as much as possible.

I have notice a trend with most people I play with not taking enough club. Not sure why, but I think it’s they either don’t know their numbers or they think they hit it farther than they do. In my case, I do know my numbers, more or less, so club selection can depend on hole location. If there’s a place to miss, where do I want to miss. In most cases missing long is not good as it usually leaves a downhill putt. That can be an issue on a severely sloped green and usually missing over the back of a green is a next to impossible up and down. Then you have to ask questions like do I have a forced carry or not. Can I run it on or it I land short will it check.

Anyway, I learned my lesson a long time ago, the hard way, I was -5 through 8. On the 9th I had 115 to a back right pin. 115 at the time was a PW, but I was pumped with adrenaline. I hit the purest PW ever that locked on the flag like a laser. Unfortunately, it flew right over the top of the flag, landed on the back edge of the green, one hop off the back and 10 yards off the back of the green. So now I’m short sided with the green running away from me. I got it to 12’ and missed the putt. I should have clubbed down and hit the 105 yard GW. I’d have probably been short, but on the green and below the hole. That one incident made me rethink how I approached front and back pins.

 

[CTRosarian]

It may be that they practice on a simulator and don't have consistent ball first contact. They know their yardages when hitting on a mat.
When the hit the ground first on the course they lose yardage and come up short.
Where I play coming up short is a lot better than hitting it long into the woods.

 

[Hacker67]

Among the many seniors who I play with, it's pretty much common knowledge that you cannot play golf with progressive lenses. Those who try are pleasantly surprised when they switch to distance vision only lenses.

I play with progressives and played with no glasses and played with distance only and for ME there is no difference.

We are individual humans and not robots so I don't know about this common knowledge stuff. I play with plenty of seniors who play with bifocals

My thins come from lifting my head too quickly to follow the ball and my chunks come from my upper body out racing my lower body or OTT.

I can't blame those swing flaws on progressive lenses.

 

[1860VS]

Retired and 68. High handicap. Looking at new smart sole chipper and lob. have now three older smart soles but also cbx 52,56 and 60 as back up. Have tri hot putter. Have 2,3,4 hybrids and 5 -9 irons as well as halo driver, 5 wood and 7 woods. Have hit the hybrids well and 5 wood not so well. Buy smart soles or buy more hybrids? What to drop? What next after first purchase.

I change what clubs are in play to make room for the SS Lob depending upon the course. Last round I dropped the 7 wood because I had specific uses for the other woods. ( 9 wood on # 18, 200 yard par 3, 5 wood for 2nd shots on 2 par 5's I have to carry a corner or a lake to get home or just within a wedge in 2) The round before I dropped the TM Burner mIni because the course had generous fairways, no doglegs I needed help working around or over. Today the 9 wood stays home because its going to be windy, and I don't want to be hitting the ball into a suborbital flight path. I'll fill the gap cutting the 7 wood or turning and burning the 6H. I am thinking of picking up a 3 or 4H that will fill the gap for the 7wood for these windy days. For never having bagged a hybrid before, I am sure liking it now that they make hybrids that aren't just hookers without makeup..

I have notice a trend with most people I play with not taking enough club. Not sure why, but I think it’s they either don’t know their numbers or they think they hit it farther than they do. In my case, I do know my numbers, more or less, so club selection can depend on hole location. If there’s a place to miss, where do I want to miss. In most cases missing long is not good as it usually leaves a downhill putt. That can be an issue on a severely sloped green and usually missing over the back of a green is a next to impossible up and down. Then you have to ask questions like do I have a forced carry or not. Can I run it on or it I land short will it check.

Anyway, I learned my lesson a long time ago, the hard way, I was -5 through 8. On the 9th I had 115 to a back right pin. 115 at the time was a PW, but I was pumped with adrenaline. I hit the purest PW ever that locked on the flag like a laser. Unfortunately, it flew right over the top of the flag, landed on the back edge of the green, one hop off the back and 10 yards off the back of the green. So now I’m short sided with the green running away from me. I got it to 12’ and missed the putt. I should have clubbed down and hit the 105 yard GW. I’d have probably been short, but on the green and below the hole. That one incident made me rethink how I approached front and back pins.

I will take pin position on both axis into consideration when selecting my club/ shot shape. If the pin is well back on the Y axis, I will almost invariably take the club that will come up under the hole as opposed to risking going over. If the pin is way up front, I will take whatever club I can hit hard to land well behind the pin, letting the spin imparted by a hard strike pull the string and bring the ball back down towards the hole. But all this thinking stops at the 8I, 154 carry on a "stock" shot.. After that its aim for the fat of the green...........

 

[Phil75070]

I will take whatever club I can hit hard to land well behind the pin, letting the spin imparted by a hard strike pull the string and bring the ball back down towards the hole

I have enough trouble figuring out how far forward to hit it to worry about how much it is going to come back once it gets there! I wish I could put that kind of spin on the ball, but, in its absence, I'll settle for "drop and stop".

 

[Sean]

swallow my ego.

Not sure I understand. That's a solid golf bag right there.

 

[Sean]

they think they hit it farther than they do.

Pretty much this. For example, the one time they nuked a 7-iron and that's how far they think they will hit it every time.

Most greens are around 30 yards deep, so if I have 135 to the middle, I know I have 150 to the back and 125 to the front. If I miss hit my 135 yard club I could end up short of the green, and maybe in a hazard. Instead, I'll take on more club. If I hit it really well, I'm on the back of the green. If I miss hit it I'm on the front of the green. If my adrenaline is really flowing I probably take the 135 club, but that rarely happens.

 

[Phil75070]

Pretty much this. For example, the one time they nuked a 7-iron and that's how far they think they will hit it every time.

Most greens are around 30 yards deep, so if I have 135 to the middle, I know I have 150 to the back and 125 to the front. If I miss hit my 135 yard club I could end up short of the green, and maybe in a hazard. Instead, I'll take on more club. If I hit it really well, I'm on the back of the green. If I miss hit it I'm on the front of the green.

I agree with your assessment that nuking a club one time can convince someone they will hit that club that far all the time.

Your approach strategy works if the greens are receptive, and that is how I normally base my club selection. Right now, I am playing on greens that all got replaced last summer, the course re-opening in October. They are so firm that any ball that hits any farther on the green than the very front will go long, despite the heavy watering they continue to do every morning. They estimate two seasons for the greens to become "normal" and fairly receptive, such that a well struck shot will "hold". As it is, coming up short is preferable, leaving the easiest chip shots.

 

[Sean]

strategy works if the greens are receptive

That's a good point, Phil.

 

[JonMA1]

have notice a trend with most people I play with not taking enough club. Not sure why, but I think it’s they either don’t know their numbers or they think they hit it farther than they do.

Missing short is not always an indication of pulling the wrong club or an unfamiliarity with ones ability. And evening out the short and long results over the course of a season does not always save strokes. But folks have made that connection for as long as I’ve been on golf forums.

If all the factors were equal, then yes, pulling more club would be the logical solution to hitting more greens, distributing the misses more evenly, and gaining strokes.

Those who believe there is a variance of only 10-15 yrds between the longest and shortest distances a given club will provide are probably out of touch with reality.

Likewise, those of us who are consistent-challenged and track shots through an app like Shotscope need to take “performance” distances with a grain of salt.

One area in my approach game that I need to improve is recognizing slightly elevated greens. That has a huge impact on my distances and I don’t always recognize them.

 

[bkuehn1952]

It is not all club selection. Much of the time a player comes up short of their target because they don't strike the ball well. With my playing handicap of 9-10, it is rare that I hit all my approach shots crisply & cleanly. Yes, I see players pull what I consider the wrong club and come up short. Often, however, there is a lot more going on than pulling the wrong club.

edit: I thought some about my most recent round, March 15. I scored well but had quite a few approach shots come up short. The short shots were primarily poor ball striking. One shot I might blame on club selection and a failure to fully account for wind, temperature and the target terrain (green has a large slope in front).

 

[BH 43]

I have enough trouble figuring out how far forward to hit it to worry about how much it is going to come back once it gets there! I wish I could put that kind of spin on the ball, but, in its absence, I'll settle for "drop and stop".

I agree, I can't put that much spin either. Just hit and stop on the green.