The ball “rollback” option...

[leftshot]

Interesting points raised about the potential non-conforming equipment hypocrisy/dilemma. I think the wedge groove/anchor putter/driver size rulings all came down during my 19 year golf hiatus and I don't know how long weekend warriors resisted or how long the old stuff was grandfathered. I know a few who haven't acquiesced to those rulings yet but the vast majority had already by the time I returned to golf and I think 'social pressures' probably drove the conversion...

I'll take the first stab at reviewing what happened in the hope others will chime in with what I don't remember or left out.

First off, the USGA and R&A never outlawed the long putter and belly putters. Instead, they instituted a new rule on how you can and can't hold the putter. They called this the anchoring ban. This is not actually accurate as there are several ways you can hold the putter that creates anchor points, as any mechanical engineer will recognize. But they did outlaw 'some' forms of anchoring. There are still players who use these putters, but not nearly as many. Most manufacturers stopped producing these putters, and those that still do are mostly in the intermediate length that used to be called belly putters. As far as the new rule, first they proposed the new rule and gave a comment period. Then they approved the new rule to be effective at the beginning of the next calendar year.

On the other two, they didn't grandfather anything. Instead, they created effective dates as follows.

For the wedge groove equipment change professionals made that change effective the beginning of the next calendar year. So, the pros had a short period of time to try out new conforming equipment and put it in play. Then they phased in the new groove requirements for other layers of players and competition. As I recall, amateurs like us had about 3 years to change out our wedges, unless you played in some USGA amateur events. What was interesting is that in the very first year, the PGA Tour professionals had to use wedges with the new groove rule all the wedge-related stats showed it didn't make any statistical difference in their performance, which was the whole point in doing this.

I'm most fuzzy on the driver head size rule. My recollection is they proposed a new 460cc maximum head size rule and then implemented it fairly quickly. Most drivers were still at 460cc or less, but the trend was bigger and bigger heads, so the ruling bodies were trying to head this one off at the pass (pun intended).

 

[GenErr]

Smaller driver head makes no difference to the pro's - they hit their 3 wood 285+ anyway. I seem to remember Taylor Made had a "mini" driver years ago and the pro's killed the ball with it.
Rolling back the golf ball? Why? I didn't hear JN complaining when as a younger player he was outdriving everyone by 25-30 yards. Personally I enjoy watching the pro's, men and women, hit the ball long.
As far as amateurs, we should be able to hit anything that improves our game.
I'll leave the choice of the two options to someone else, and continue to use whatever helps this 75 year old golfer enjoy the game.

 

[pinger_72]

I'm in favor of a rollback. Lots of classic courses were designed ( especially long par 4's) for mid to long irons approach shots. If you are hitting a wedge its too easy. Also these long holes normally have easier greens with less bunkering since they were designed for long irons.

 

[TxAggie2018]

Pros can wear out a sweet spot the size of a dime. Shrinking a driver head won't hurt them, if everything else about the driver remains the same.

 

[InTheRough]

25 million golfers in the USA. 3 million are USGA members. The vast majority play by what they assume are the rules of golf and about 80% of those "rules" are wrong. Something tells me that the vast majority of golfers won't care what the USGA says about driver size. They'll still use that 2012 TM driver they've had in their bag for years. As for balls, most golfers I see play Supersofts. Kirkland. Q-Star at the most. We're not very good.

 

[WLG1952]

I'd go with the smaller driver head.

Using the 400cc club head, in conjunction with narrower fairways, and knee high rough would bring more players into the competitive value mix.

Personally, just changing the ball is not the answer in my mind. Golfers, and fans like to see the long ball.

 

[leftshot]

25 million golfers in the USA. 3 million are USGA members. The vast majority play by what they assume are the rules of golf and about 80% of those "rules" are wrong. Something tells me that the vast majority of golfers won't care what the USGA says about driver size. They'll still use that 2012 TM driver they've had in their bag for years. As for balls, most golfers I see play Supersofts. Kirkland. Q-Star at the most. We're not very good.

Except that sales of non-conforming clubs suggest that both players and manufacturers do care.

 

[tahoebum]

The 400cc option. It wouldn’t change my scoring ability at all.

 

[Phil75070]

So, a 360cc head size limit isn't going to slow them down.

This is so true! Go back and look up the distances guys like George Bayer, Mike Souchak, and, yes, even Jack Nicklaus were hitting the ball back in the 50s and 60s with persimmon drivers.

 

[blugold]

I'm still interested in the comprehensive list of golf courses that are too short for golfers to play.

 

[Mr Moke]

Option #1.

I am not a professional, so why should I be held to the same standard equipment/ball as a professional. There is 0% chance of me EVER overpowering a golf course, unless it is mini-golf.

I play for fun, and could give two dumps what a governing body thinks I should play.

Exactly, personally I don’t consider TV golf to be real golf, the ball and the hole are the only things TV golf has in common with the game I play.

 

[charley48]

I think I'd rather let the pros one ball and the amateurs use the ball they've always used. None of us are going to be competing on the tour. We just want it be enjoyable. Changing the equipment would not achieve that.

 

[rocullen]

It’s a professional golf washed up old golfer “problem”, not the folks that play the other 360 days of the year. Actually, it’s a golfer formally known as Jack Nicklaus problem. I don’t give a rats behind if a tournament is 30 under.

Actually I like em better that way. Pros are good, showcase it!

Smaller driver head, if I must choose. Used to get along fine with a smaller head.
Been considering digging out an old Integra Beta Ti I used to hit real well before I got 'modern".

 

[InTheRough]

Except that sales of non-conforming clubs suggest that both players and manufacturers do care.

The thing about changing the rules to a 400 cc club for amateurs is that they won't force it overnight anyway. You won't have to buy one. When the USGA changed the rules on the grooves they grandfathered the vintage grooves thru 2024. But I still expect to see some people playing Ping Eye 2s and iSIs next season. They'll likely do something similar for the 460 cc heads like grandfather them for 10 years for all but elite competition. They'll be non-conforming for elite competition, but you can still play them for your weekly club.

 

[pinger_72]

I think I'd rather let the pros one ball and the amateurs use the ball they've always used. None of us are going to be competing on the tour. We just want it be enjoyable. Changing the equipment would not achieve that.

IMO one of the great things about golf is measuring yourself against the Pros. If they use a limited ball you can no longer do that. Obviously they are WAY better but still. If they roll it back roll it back for everyone

 

[BigMac]

IMO one of the great things about golf is measuring yourself against the Pros. If they use a limited ball you can no longer do that. Obviously they are WAY better but still. If they roll it back roll it back for everyone

For 99% of us, it's silly and futile to measure yourself against the pros. There are reasons they're out there on Tour making millions to play golf and we're paying to play on public courses.

 

[Dcharo]

I felt the driver head should be limited at about 400-420 cc. When those bigger head drivers started to be sold
I like the ability to play whatever ball

 

[JohnSinVA]

If we’re concerned about pro distances why can’t they just ban the grooming of fairways so they’re nicer than the greens on your local muni?

 

[blugold]

If we’re concerned about pro distances why can’t they just ban the grooming of fairways so they’re nicer than the greens on your local muni?

The people in charge of setting up fairways on tour have no issues with distances. The PGA Tour LOVES distance. The USGA is the party being wet blankets.

 

[JohnSinVA]

The people in charge of setting up fairways on tour have no issues with distances. The PGA Tour LOVES distance. The USGA is the party being wet blankets.

While true, an arcane USGA rule to the effect of making fairway grass no shorter than, say, 25mm would get way fewer people bent out of shape than any equipment modifications.

Guys can still hit bombs but they won’t be getting another 30 yards of roll.

 

[blugold]

While true, an arcane USGA rule to the effect of making fairway grass no shorter than, say, 25mm would get way fewer people bent out of shape than any equipment modifications.

Guys can still hit bombs but they won’t be getting another 30 yards of roll.

The USGA dictating how long fairways can be would be peak USGA Shitbaggery.

Honestly, there is nobody worse at their job than the USGA is at theirs.

 

[JohnSinVA]

The USGA dictating how long fairways can be would be peak USGA Shitbaggery.

Honestly, there is nobody worse at their job than the USGA is at theirs.

It would be shitbaggery that affects the fewest number of players at least. I can’t recall the last time I saw fairways that short as a paying customer.

 

[blugold]

It would be shitbaggery that affects the fewest number of players at least. I can’t recall the last time I saw fairways that short as a paying customer.

But there doesn't need to be any shitbaggery because there isn't any problem with distance that needs to be solved.

 

[InTheRough]

1" long grass on the fairways? No thank you. They cut the fairways pretty short at my local muni and I like the rollout. Everyone does. There is no distance problem. The ancient guys are complaining about courses becoming "obsolete", but if you look at the 1960s MacGregor irons for their lofts, you'll find out that the 7i (40 deg) had nearly the same loft a 9i in modern muscle backs (42 deg - Callaway Apex MB). The 5i was 32 deg. vs a 7i at 34 deg. PW was 52 deg back then.

There is no distance problem.

 

[klip66]

1" long grass on the fairways? No thank you. They cut the fairways pretty short at my local muni and I like the rollout. Everyone does. There is no distance problem. The ancient guys are complaining about courses becoming "obsolete", but if you look at the 1960s MacGregor irons for their lofts, you'll find out that the 7i (40 deg) had nearly the same loft a 9i in modern muscle backs (42 deg - Callaway Apex MB). The 5i was 32 deg. vs a 7i at 34 deg. PW was 52 deg back then.

There is no distance problem.

There is one problem, the USGA.