What does a PGA/DPWT/LIV 'merged' tour look like?

[bulls9999]

Just curious, and will withold my dislike of LIV from the conversation, but I'm trying to figure out what a 'merged' or some semblance of a 'coming together' of these tours can possibly look like?

The hardest part (for me) to envision is that if you allow LIV players to participate in PGA/DPWT events, is there a reciprocal inclusion of PGA/DPWT players in the LIV events?.... and how do you do that? I guess both tours have individual aspects of winners in the singular tournament itself, but also a end game of accumulated results towards the endd of the season (PGAT => FedEx Cup; LIV => individual/team championship; same for DPWT). So will the reciprocal play that I can envision be only towards the individual tournament aspect whereas players playing in the opposing tours as reciprocating players will not likely to play sufficient tournaments to achieve standing in the season-ending tournament series? (although I don't believe anyone is excluded in LIV, you are just low on the totem pole?).

What are possible scenarios that work? If PGAT players don't get OWGR points for playing in LIV tournaments because of the format, why would they play?.... for the elevated money status?

 

[Chef23]

Interesting topic. I don’t see anyway to open the LIV tour to DPWT or PGAT players. I could see a model where the LIV events shift a bit to not compete with most PGA or DPA events and LIV players are able to play in a certain number of PGA events. Just a potential thought.

I could also see a shift in format for LIV events that enable the awarding of OWGR points which would make it easier to integrate into some selected events and the majors.

 

[JB]

Interesting topic. I don’t see anyway to open the LIV tour to DPWT or PGAT players. I could see a model where the LIV events shift a bit to not compete with most PGA or DPA events and LIV players are able to play in a certain number of PGA events. Just a potential thought.

Now that would be something, because it’s exactly what both LIV and PGL wanted to begin with.

 

[bulls9999]

Interesting topic. I don’t see anyway to open the LIV tour to DPWT or PGAT players. I could see a model where the LIV events shift a bit to not compete with most PGA or DPA events and LIV players are able to play in a certain number of PGA events. Just a potential thought.

I could also see a shift in format for LIV events that enable the awarding of OWGR points which would make it easier to integrate into some selected events and the majors.

Well, could you not let PGAT/DPWT players into LIV tournaments as competitors in the individual competition, but still have LIV teams competing separately as a separate competition? That way the LIV team competition goes on undisturbed within the overall LIV tournament? (18 holes with 4 players/hole shotgun start = can accommodate 72 players, so they can accommodate more players than they currently do and still have shotgun start; do they incorporate the outside/PGAT/DPWT players into teams of their own to give them a 'taste' of 'team play' since they are so fond of promoting that aspect of their tour?).

Put if there is 'player input' from the PGAT side, why would players vote for such a lopsided arrangement if they couldn't play in LIV tournaments? Adding LIV players cuts out some PGAT players if there is a limited field (I'm thinking more the 'elevated events', which a number of PGAT players are already screaming about because of the limited field in a tournament with more $$, and even more so if you include LIV players?). There has to be some reciprocity for PGAT players in LIV tournaments, but I can't figure out how with their current format unless you change the format somewhat.

 

[CrashTestDummy]

Bubba Watson was on the Barstool podcast and suggested that perhaps PGA tour could have two LIV teams and change the players every tournament. Interesting. @ 18min left in podcast below.

There also have been talks that 1 billion of PIF money could go to PGA players that got offers and didn't go to LIV which would may quiet their discontent of LIV players playing on PGA, but it may ruffle more feathers of other PGA players that never got offers. Quite complicated. Lol.

podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-liv-landslide-with-bubba-watson/id1200343264?i=1000638263752

 

[bulls9999]

Bubba Watson was on the Barstool podcast and suggested that perhaps PGA tour could have two LIV teams and change the players every tournament. Interesting. @ 18min left in podcast below.

There also have been talks that 1 billion of PIF money could go to PGA players that got offers and didn't go to LIV which would may quiet their discontent of LIV players playing on PGA, but it may ruffle more feathers of other PGA players that never got offers. Quite complicated. Lol.

podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-liv-landslide-with-bubba-watson/id1200343264?i=1000638263752

So that will blow LIV's "fewer tournaments and more time for players" if they have to play the 14? LIV tournaments (if they want their teams to succeed) + some PGAT elevated tournaments, then majors if they get in, unless the playing in PGAT events is voluntary/optional, although they may feel compelled to play in them if offered because of the greater TV network exposure than they currently get in LIV? Going to be a heck of a change.

 

[WLG1952]

Just my opinion, which means less than zero, but if the 3 tours merge, I would assume the LIV tour would change their format, to mirror that of the other two tours. Plus I wouldn't be surprised if the other two tours adopted the team competition.

If that's the case, about the only change would be more pro tournaments on a worldwide stage. There would be no U.S. tour, Euro tour, and no LIV tour. Just one World tour.

A side from the money aspect, there's not a whole lot that needs changing.

I would expect all the Majors to stay the same. In fact with the merger, the timing might be right for a 5th Major.

As for the FedEx I really don't care what happens to it, unless it expands to a much larger field, and probably adding two, or more qualifying tournaments.

For me personally, the merger wouldn't change my viewing habits. I'd still watch bits, here, and there like I do now. Except for different tournament locations, I probably wouldn't notice any big changes.

 

[CrashTestDummy]

So that will blow LIV's "fewer tournaments and more time for players" if they have to play the 14? LIV tournaments (if they want their teams to succeed) + some PGAT elevated tournaments, then majors if they get in, unless the playing in PGAT events is voluntary/optional, although they may feel compelled to play in them if offered because of the greater TV network exposure than they currently get in LIV? Going to be a heck of a change.

Of course, it would be optional for LIV players to play PGA tour events. LIV requires their players to play all events, however, unlike the PGA tour, LIV allows them to play anywhere they want the other 38 weeks. The PGA tour should just have no minimum number of tournaments PGA players are required to play. Just allow PGA players to play wherever they want because it is an automatic motivator for PGA players to play enough to stay in the top 125.

It is a little complicated to configure a scenario where both tours can have players playing both LIV and PGA, but I do think they are going to do it. I think that LIV gets OWGR points is the start. PGA tour allows LIV players to play PGA tournaments based on OWGR points. LIV allows what Bubba suggests by letting PGA own two or three LIV teams and rotates different players in them or PGA owns two teams and DP World owns one team. Lots of different scenarios.

 

[bulls9999]

Just my opinion, which means less than zero, but if the 3 tours merge, I would assume the LIV tour would change their format, to mirror that of the other two tours. Plus I wouldn't be surprised if the other two tours adopted the team competition.

If that's the case, about the only change would be more pro tournaments on a worldwide stage. There would be no U.S. tour, Euro tour, and no LIV tour. Just one World tour.

A side from the money aspect, there's not a whole lot that needs changing.

I would expect all the Majors to stay the same. In fact with the merger, the timing might be right for a 5th Major.

As for the FedEx I really don't care what happens to it, unless it expands to a much larger field, and probably adding two, or more qualifying tournaments.

For me personally, the merger wouldn't change my viewing habits. I'd still watch bits, here, and there like I do now. Except for different tournament locations, I probably wouldn't notice any big changes.

Hmmm, if that were the case (1 World Tour), then you would have to eliminate more than half of the current total membership of mostly PGAT/DPWT ???? I find that hard to justify (to the majority of the memberships). The current PGAT has a fall-back system of sponsors' exemptions (PGA Tour), if you lose your card, then there's KornFerry. On the LIV side, if you get ousted, you are trekking somewhere on the Asian tours? with a minimal chance to get in via the qualifier (what, they let 3 people in this year). You also wouldn't have tournaments on a schedule that most American are accustomed to.... Thurs/Fri/Sat/Sun during afternoon hours..... if they were in Asia, you'd be watching them at midnight? Not sure many sponsors would like that change in time slot for their advertisements. I think there's a lost to be considered.

 

[Chef23]

Now that would be something, because it’s exactly what both LIV and PGL wanted to begin with.

Agreed and it makes some sense. The PGL model was pretty sound if anyone was willing to listen to them.

 

[frontTsociety]

My initial response from a similar thread. I’ve had some time to sit with this since, and still think it could be a great collaboration of the 3.


“ I’ve been thinking a bit about this:

4 majors

4 LIV events (invitational team)

6 premium current PGA events (memorial etc..)

4 DP premium events

Then for the b squad, 20 or so typical PGA/DP events that somehow may earn your way into the A schedule. “

 

[bulls9999]

My initial response from a similar thread. I’ve had some time to sit with this since, and still think it could be a great collaboration of the 3.


“ I’ve been thinking a bit about this:

4 majors

4 LIV events (invitational team)

6 premium current PGA events (memorial etc..)

4 DP premium events

Then for the b squad, 20 or so typical PGA/DP events that somehow may earn your way into the A schedule. “

The problem with the "elevated events" is that there is no cut (I believe), and lower ranking players have rightly suggested that once you get into that elevated group, it's hard to be displaced. How do you gain enough points in the typical PGA/DP events if the higher ranking players are playing the elevated events (world ranking points is partly based on field strength, and if higher ranking players mostly play the elevated events, the typical events would likely have lower field strength except perhaps by numbers of players). The 'typical' PGA tour is going to sound more like a higher-ranking KornFerry tour, a separate tour, where only a few 'graduate' to the elevated levels. Something like this doesn't sound like it would have the same opportunity for advancement as there was before. I can see why players would be miffed.

Also, how many LIV players get into the elevated combined series? only 48 members in LIV vs 150+ members on PGA Tour, and similar higher amount on DPWT? It can't be the same fixed number from each which would be a higher percentage from LIV? Lot's of issues. Previously the PGAT was upset at Monahan for doing this himself with his board members.....and could easily end up with Tiger, Cantlay, and players board equally getting the field upset at them for something not palatable to the overall membership. So looks like things will be worked out (maybe) by the Masters.

 

[Slowmo]

I see LIV becoming more like the Aramco series the ladies play. All of the guys will go back to being full time PGAT players. They will add a team portion to the elevated events. It won’t really change anything about how they play PGAT events, just have X number of teams of 4 making some side money.

 

[golfs_happy]

I hope everything is blown up and we start to an extent form scratch.

Have team events which can be under the LIV umbrella and hosted/spread out throughout the season. Say 12 events.

Have another 12 events which are top tier hosted in a variety of countries and places that are considered tier 1 events. Limited field with cut (thinking F1 type deal) this is where the best 75 play. Each 1/3 the bottom 25 shift out.

Tier 2 has other events with same 75 field and top 25 can earn their way into tier 1.

Tier 3 is open for any and all who want to play inside the top 200.

Team events need at least 1 tier 2 player per squad (start of season ranking).

Captains, draft, trades and all that.

Pipe dream but I want to see a dramatic change in golf.

 

[willplaysgolf]

I still think there's a lot of directions it could go, such as:

-Team golf goes away, all players are integrated into one tour that looks something like the PGAT of today
-All players play on the same tour and there are separate events that make up a team series
-Have team golf but integrated into existing tournaments e.g. the Memorial has both "FedEx Cup points" and "LIV Team Points"
-Both tours continue to exist (so there are distinct groups of LIV golfers and PGAT golfers) but there are some opportunities for golfers to play on the opposite tour

 

[Trout Bum]

I’m not sure how all this will pan out, the whole thing is a mess and it’s gotten very sloppy. Players are talking trash about each other, weekly team events on LiV, A list players not in PGA events because of the separation.


I’ve been saying for years that the PGA needed a revamp but they didn’t need to blow the whole damn thing up while examining their options

 

[MtlJeff]

I've said this for a long time and still believe it:

-After the merger, the 2 tours competing with each other will end immediately, it makes no sense and the investors won't allow it. No business is going to compete with itself
-The 2 tours will remain separate for a few years, but with salary fixing to avoid competition (all LIV signings and contracts will need to be approved by Jay)
-Eventually the parent company will realize what we all already know and that is that there are not enough viewers for 2 tours and that many tournaments
-LIV will be trimmed down to be an all-star type event, maybe 4-6 events throughout the year, keeping the team format. Best case scenario IMO would be the tour selecting like 5-6 "captains" and they pick their own teams, like fantasy football....and it's a seasonlong overlay event.

If you think the PGA tour and LIV are going to compete after the merger just ask why would any investor allow this to happen?

Long term, i would imagine players will form some sort of union or there will be more unpleasantness. Because all of global golf being controlled by investment firms and one CEO with zero potential for competition ---you know how this is going to go for the players in the long run. They'll get nice payouts and improved purses at the beginning, but my guess is for-profit companies are gonna start doing for-profit company stuff soon thereafter.

 

[DataDude]

I think it turns into a worldwide calendar with top players playing together somewhere every month and those events count toward some giant best golfer of the year rankings. LIV will exist on top of that in a setup similar to F1 where the owners of the teams get all the money and the players are signed to contracts to play events. The PGA Tour will take a backseat and become a bit like the American version of the DP World Tour. Weekly events during some sort of season. These will be the Tour’s where players build their star power and qualify for the top player monthly events and possibly earn a contract to play LIV events. I do think some of the current PGA and DP events become the signature monthly events of the future. I think LIV belongs in the Northern Hemisphere’s winter months, maybe 2 team events a month Sep-Dec?

 

[The Dave]

So what happened to that deadline?

 

[Jimmy3864]

A lot of good ideas noted above and some sense of reality as far as the future. I agree the LIV team aspect and loyalty outlook will fade away including any equity appreciation for the part owners if any deal allows PGA players into their events. As noted, there are only so many viewers and sponsors.

I think team events would be fun if the players were all of the elite category and not the mish mash of the makeup today. I feel that would attract more fans but as long as “LIV” is part of the marque and Greg Norman is involved, this will not attract the current loyal PGA viewer. Both need to go in order to attract sponsors.

I think LIV disappears in its current format and they create 4-6 team “global” team events each year in addition to regular PGA events although sure who or how teams are formed.

It certainly will be interesting how it unfolds but first they need to finalize the merger.

 

[Scribble]

Ultimately I see LIV having teams with a “stable” of players (maybe 6) on contracts.
It’s going to have team owners with independent franchises. League and team licensing. Revenue sharing.
Once they get the scoring format right, there will be understandable rankings and standings.
Weekly wins will be bonus moneys with and end Championship
Just like any other “Major League”

 

[CrashTestDummy]

Perhaps LIV will be more elite player tournaments like the Majors and FedEx Cup playoffs. Personally, I see LIV as a continuous rotation of the current top OWGR players playing LIV events much like the Majors and FedEx Cup playoffs instead of how it is now. Perhaps you have the same captains for one season, but not for several years. Every year the captains are the top OWGR points players from previous season and the players that qualify for LIV are the current top players on OWGR.

Perhaps cut LIV down to around 4-6 events. Then you have 4 Majors, 3 FedEx Cup playoffs, and 4-6 LIV events with a team championship tournament. Then the regular PGA season could be cut shorter to around 36-38 weeks. The Majors, FedEx Cup playoffs, and LIV would be the elevated events and only those who qualified with OWGR points could play. However, it would be a really long season for the top players, but of course they could pick and choose which top tournaments they want to play and allow other top players to play.

Just a brainstorm off the top off my head.

 

[Gusset]

I'm still noodling on the whole "PGAT controls everything" aspect. What's to stop Jay from just shutting down LIV and keeping the ban on LIV players in PGAT events?

"Under the terms of the agreements, the PGA Tour would retain control of the new for-profit entity." (from ESPN's 12/31 article about a memo from the PGAT to its players)

 

[Trout Bum]

I hate the team thing but I’m a crusty ole traditionalist when it comes to golf and the whole money thing for both is a disaster for me, bunch of crybabies if you ask me.

What really bothers me is the airing of dirty Laundry on the tour, some of it should have been kept inside the ropes and disagreements could have been handled better. Seems to be like everything else in the world right now, separation and ego are becoming dominant in a lot of things

 

[Bryndom]

I think some promotion/relegation situation might work. Where the premier league would play majors, invitationals (LIV events, Ryder Cup, Presidents Cup, WGT events), and premier tournaments (WM, players, The Sentry, Memorial, etc). A second tier that plays more traditional events but tries to earn top spots for promotion at the end of the year. And a third tier for Q Schools…. Dunno - whatever it is will be interesting and delicate to balance the antitrust stuff