Why don't more women participate in golf forums?

[Golfgal]

Hey everyone!
It's been a while since I've been online here, but I wanted to share with you three things I've been working on lately - all about women in golf (or not) and women in forums (or not).

1. I did a post on why more women don't play golf
2. Then I did a post on why more women don't participate in golf forums.
3. And then today (drum roll please ), I did a post with none other than JB from THP! He talks about how THP got started and what THP is doing to make forums more women and kid friendly.

I'm interviewing Golfer Gal on Wed, so check back for that on Thursday.

I'm getting too crazy busy to do all the forums like I used to, and so some will definitely fall off the list in 2009, but NOT THP. I like it here!

Thanks Harry for bringing me on board!

Golfgal

 

[ClairefromClare]

Interesting piece on why women aren't on golf fori! I can only relate my own experience.

When GFW was still around, I was an early and active member of its forum. And it wasn't all that busy, until this dude showed up and practically took over the place...

When GFW went under, I was scrambling looking for a new home. Tried a bunch of places (and followed said dude around to many of them). For reasons I still can't fully explain, I felt most at home at Shot Talk. Its owner was the only one who went to GFW to ask people to move over, and he created a women's forum for that express purpose.

Shot Talk ain't exactly a woman-friendly place (even though Patricia's blog is featured on the home page). The women's forum was instantly swamped by guys, complaining that their boys' club would be ruined. They've driven off any number of other women since I've been there (though it hasn't been the regulars who've done that). I'm surprised they claim to be 31% female. I'm the only woman who posts there at all regularly.

So why am I there? The guys have spent all winter trading clubs (which they insist on calling hoing--though hardly unique, that's insulting enough), building clubs, talking about guns, and posting pictures of naked women on the members' only forum. They tend to act like they've never seen a woman before--certainly not on the golf course.

On the other hand, they stick together in ways that are incredibly sweet. When someone has a baby, loses a parent, has open heart surgery, it's all raindrops & roses & whiskers on kittens. I get reasonably frequent PMs inquiring if someone has offended me and assuring me they'll back me up if someone gets out of bounds. And quite frankly, it's fun being the occasional center of attention. I've hung in there long enough and shown I know enough about the game that they respect me. But it was a hazing process.

Certainly THP has been a lot easier from day one, and my post count shows it.

No clue what the point of all this is, and it probably doesn't need to be on a public forum. But I typed it here, so it's staying. :arrogant:

 

[julie_m]

The truth of the matter is, there are very, very few men who honestly would like to see women golf. I'm not counting the ones who say "I like to see chicks! I like to see chicks golf!" I mean the rare gems like my father or JB or my current fellow who actually want more women out golfing.

Golf is a frightening, brash, inhospitable environment for women, on the course and on the forums. I've never had what I would consider a nice experience on the golf course, in regard to other golfers or employees. I had one time where I ran into a lady (!) on the course, and I could tell she was new at the game...she watched me play a bunch and complimented one shot in particular. I hope I encouraged her. But that was the same day that three men finished a hole in front of me, then left their bags behind and sat at the tee boxes of my next two holes to watch me, swilling their beers, pretending they're so stealthy.

The best I can hope on a golf course or driving range is that there is no one out there, or that they're spaced out enough, that me and Josh are left alone. Since that's rare, I just wish deeply that they won't stare and talk when I'm trying to play. Forums get just as disgusting and unnerving, and that's just the way it is. I try to be all feminist and say "I'm gonna be here, whether you like it or not!" But I'm a bit of a wimp (personally, not a girl thing but a me thing), even I start shaking in my boots (spikes?) from time to time.

Along the wimpy embarrassed lines, this is just me but other women may relate...I honestly can't really play four hours of any sport or physical activity. (I left a great job because I had to be on my feet so long.) Golf is a struggle against my nature - I like having options like short courses and I'd love to afford a cart one day but for now that's how it is. So I know, and it's JUST me, you won't find me on too many of those long, fancy shmancy courses fellas love.

And Claire - ST has so many women because they won't delete your profile, or let you do it, when you want to leave. For a while now my profile pic is a big X and the line "just delete this account" ("please just delete this account" wouldn't fit). I give 'em a bit of credit, they're sticking to their guns, and didn't take the pansy way out by editing though not deleting.

:smile: I feel better now that I've vented!

 

[Callaway Girl]

The truth of the matter is, there are very, very few men who honestly would like to see women golf. I'm not counting the ones who say "I like to see chicks! I like to see chicks golf!" I mean the rare gems like my father or JB or my current fellow who actually want more women out golfing.

I agree totally. I really hate it when guys at the course or on the range flirt or try to give tips. This is after they have skulled numerous shots or sliced every drive out of sight. I usually respond with, I don't mean to be rude, but I am working on my game.

It is different if guys make small talk, I always speak, just don't try and get a date.

 

[julie_m]

I agree totally. I really hate it when guys at the course or on the range flirt or try to give tips. This is after they have skulled numerous shots or sliced every drive out of sight. I usually respond with, I don't mean to be rude, but I am working on my game.

There's an old saying, "you have to be twice as good to be considered half as good as men." In golf, that's just tons of pressure. Who here plays their best under that pressure? (I can't find the original quoter. But I did find this: “Years ago, I saw a poster that read: 'For women to be thought of as half as good as men, they have to be twice as good. Fortunately, that is easy.'” Hehe.)

 

[ClairefromClare]

Partly, it's a question of numbers. I remember a study some time back about women on boards of directors. One woman on the board, she's too intimidated to speak up (we're talking gross generalities here). Two women, they don't want to get lumped together and tend to be quiet. Three women, they get active and stick up for each other and participate a lot more.

I'm sure that applies in many situations. Which means that the way to get more women on golf message boards is to get more women on golf message boards. Or at least to get a critical mass, which is somewhat less than 50%. I mean, we're less than 50% of the population here, but there are enough of us that no one is intimidated.

 

[julie_m]

but there are enough of us that no one is intimidated.

I do hope that's the case...I wonder. :dont-know:

Listened to the interview...shout outs to Claire and the kids! Did you hear it?

 

[soxngolf]

I read all three blogs and they were all interesting.
I absolutely agree with most of the comments on why women don't get into golf. It is a tough environment for women and it continues no matter how good you get. I also think most women do not like to not be good at things. It is impossible to be good at golf right away and the way to get better is to play in front of people, not an easy combination. I think a lot of women turn away because of that. Plus, the commitment and time you have to put into learning is asking a lot. The way to get more women to play is to get them in women friendly environments like women's leagues or golf schools. I only started playing golf once I found a friend who wanted to learn as much as I did, so we could go out together.
As for forums, I am wondering what the percentages are for all forums combined for men and women. Not just golf or cooking, but all forums combined. I am willing to bet the majority of posters in general are men. I just don't think forums are something many women are interested in, I am not sure I would be on forums if any of my friends liked to talk golf as much as I do. I would just talk to them.
I think one of the things I like about THP is that you always get good responses. There are people here who are interested in the same things I am, although there are a lot more topics here than I get involved in. I think it is great that the moderators read all the posts, JB seems to comment on every topic! Again, my main interest on the forum is to discuss the LPGA and there are a lot of people here who watch, so it makes the conversations more interesting.

 

[Callaway Girl]

I do hope that's the case...I wonder. :dont-know:

I am not intimidated on any forum. I hope that doesn't come out as arrogant, because I don't mean it that way. THP is the best golf forum that I have been a part of. Everyone is very kind and friendly, which is nice.

I was a active member of GolfWRX before and was hated upon all the time. The percentages of women there were very small and it showed.

 

[soxngolf]

Or at least to get a critical mass, which is somewhat less than 50%. I mean, we're less than 50% of the population here, but there are enough of us that no one is intimidated.

I think it helps that we all tend to post a lot. We might not be that many, but our post numbers (especially Claire, and I did hear the shout out!) make it seem like there are more of us, or at least that there is a lot of female participation.

Julie-as far as "twice as good as the men" I think part of the problem is that it doesn't matter how good you are. When you are in the clubhouse or a pro shop/golf store those guys never see what type of golfer you are. On the course if I am teeing off with some men who are acting disappointed that they are "stuck" playing with me, usually I gain their respect after the first few holes, however, most situations, no matter how good you are, you don't get that chance.

 

[Callaway Girl]

Julie-as far as "twice as good as the men" I think part of the problem is that it doesn't matter how good you are. When you are in the clubhouse or a pro shop/golf store those guys never see what type of golfer you are. On the course if I am teeing off with some men who are acting disappointed that they are "stuck" playing with me, usually I gain their respect after the first few holes, however, most situations, no matter how good you are, you don't get that chance.

I have a solution ladies. . . . When playing with guys, beat the pants off of them. :act-up: Sorry guys! Don't take it personal.

 

[soxngolf]

I have a solution ladies. . . . When playing with guys, beat the pants off of them. :act-up: Sorry guys! Don't take it personal.

I was just thinking CG, you must love getting on a course with a guy who doesn't want to play with "a girl." How long does it take them to realize you are going to "beat the pants off them!?":female-fighter:

 

[JB]

Our forum is half owned by a female and we always want this place to be female friendly.

 

[julie_m]

On the course if I am teeing off with some men who are acting disappointed that they are "stuck" playing with me, usually I gain their respect after the first few holes, however, most situations, no matter how good you are, you don't get that chance.

That's the thing - you have to play an awesome few holes to be considered at the level to even be in their foursome. If you don't play some of the best holes of your life, you don't gain that respect. That's just too daunting of a prospect for a middle of the road woman golfer.

I just like to play golf for the fun of it, and not always have to play to win.

 

[soxngolf]

That's the thing - you have to play an awesome few holes to be considered at the level to even be in their foursome. If you don't play some of the best holes of your life, you don't gain that respect. That's just too daunting of a prospect for a middle of the road woman golfer.

I just like to play golf for the fun of it, and not always have to play to win.

I agree that it can put some pressure on, but most guys on the course aren't very good. I think the stat is something like only 10% of golfers break 100 regularly. That thought can help a lot on the course, the men probably aren't that much better than most women out there.

 

[julie_m]

I agree that it can put some pressure on, but most guys on the course aren't very good. I think the stat is something like only 10% of golfers break 100 regularly. That thought can help a lot on the course, the men probably aren't that much better than most women out there.

I agree! They're not better. They just have a way of making you feel crappy.

 

[Callaway Girl]

That's the thing - you have to play an awesome few holes to be considered at the level to even be in their foursome. If you don't play some of the best holes of your life, you don't gain that respect. That's just too daunting of a prospect for a middle of the road woman golfer.

I understand. I was fortunate when I first started playing golf. There were a group of guys that took me under their wing. All of them were low single digit handicappers and I learned a lot from them.

Now, on the weekends, when I am paired up with three strangers (mostly guys) on the first tee box, I believe that I can play better than them.

Julie, you are correct, they look at me like crap we are paired up with a woman and it is going to be a slow round. Usually after about 3 holes, I can tell if the guys are cool or not. For the most part, I beat them hands down. If they are cool, they talk during the round. If not, they are very rude.

 

[ClairefromClare]

I do hope that's the case...I wonder. :dont-know:

Listened to the interview...shout outs to Claire and the kids! Did you hear it?

Except I'm not the biggest poster after JB--DD and Smallie are both ahead of me. Cute about the kids, though we also have the whole high school contingent.

Oh--and most men may be lousy (I love driving ranges, just to watch them shank), but they don't seem to realize it.

Edit: I don't want to make this a bash-the-guys post. I really don't mean it that way.

 

[Callaway Girl]

Except I'm not the biggest poster after JB--DD and Smallie are both ahead of me. Cute about the kids, though we also have the whole high school contingent.

Oh--and most men may be lousy (I love driving ranges, just to watch them shank), but they don't seem to realize it.

Edit: I don't want to make this a bash-the-guys post. I really don't mean it that way.

I agree, it should not be a male bashing post. Not all men are this way. The majority of guys that I meet at the range and on the course are good guys.

 

[soxngolf]

I just posted in the golf forum a question to the guys about how they feel when paired with women. I hope we get some good conversation. I am interested in what they have to say.

I have absolutely played with some really good guys and typically enjoy playing with them.

Oh--and most men may be lousy , but they don't seem to realize it

I agree, funny story. I was out with my dad and his friend and about half way through the round a single joined us. Really nice guy and after a few holes, which I had been out driving him, he asked if I had played college golf! Now, I am no where near good enough (as you can see from my handicap) to play in college, but I just think because I am a long hitter and was beating him, I must be at college level. Most guys underestimate how good women can be on a golf course. Again though, really nice guy and liked playing with him.

 

[jcuray]

I would not mind playing with more women at all, and my 2 golfing partners are my fiancee and my next door neighbor we are out to have fun and the only one that I get mad at is myself when I am out on the course heck I'm 46 my girlfriend is 51 and my neighbor is 57. I don't give my disability a second thought and if we run into guys that are jerks I won't play with them people like that probably should not be on the course anyway.

 

[julie_m]

I don't give my disability a second thought and if we run into guys that are jerks I won't play with them people like that probably should not be on tthe course anyway.

+as many points as I can give, when I can give it again

I knew I've always liked you! :smile:

 

[Callaway Girl]

+as many points as I can give.

I totally agree with Julie. I admire your attitude and commitment.

 

[Badger_Golfer]

Personally, I think its a great thing when I see women out on the course or at the driving range.
Ive never seen women treated badly at any of the courses Ive played on and if I did, Id probably give the men who were treating them like that an earful and offer to let said woman play in my group, where at least she could enjoy the game without hearing any sexist comments or being harassed.
IMO, no matter if someone is a man or woman, they should be allowed to enjoy this game and should get the respect and dignity that they deserve.

 

[soxngolf]

Personally, I think its a great thing when I see women out on the course or at the driving range.
Ive never seen women treated badly at any of the courses Ive played on and if I did, Id probably give the men who were treating them like that an earful and offer to let said woman play in my group, where at least she could enjoy the game without hearing any sexist comments or being harassed.
IMO, no matter if someone is a man or woman, they should be allowed to enjoy this game and should get the respect and dignity that they deserve.

Nicely put, and I love the chivalry!:clapp: