Wyndham Clark - Rules Violation?

[Misike]

I hate that I agree with Brandel. The eye test is obvious that it moved. Without slow motion and super zoomed in it moved. I don't think he got any benefit from it but it still moved. Should of been a penalty.

the ball moved so it's a penalty Imo. You typically see the pros test the ground away from the ball to make sure they don't move it. This is no different than trying to move a rock or leaf from around the ball without moving it. The ball moved so penalty should have been assessed.

I thought the rule was the ball was allowed to move, if it came back to its original spot. I think though, the rule says you should not be intending to improve the lie. Close call on that one, but if I'm a player, I'm just not grounding it so close to the ball, who knows what can happen there, why chance it. Especially in that scenario when it was a punch out anyway, why risk it..

 

[frontTsociety]

taking a floating lie and lowering it would most certainly create potential advantage, would it not?

not for me… but I doubt a 18 capper should be the measuring stick. It’s a good point though. If an advantage was clear, an RO would access a penalty. Was this the one that Scottie and the RO weighed in on, and decided not to assess? Not that it changes this discussion, but Mr. Clark has got himself into a few of these discussions lately, and I’m not sure I have the right one in my mind.

 

[mikeg_74]

I thought the rule was the ball was allowed to move, if it came back to its original spot. I think though, the rule says you should not be intending to improve the lie. Close call on that one, but if I'm a player, I'm just not grounding it so close to the ball, who knows what can happen there, why chance it. Especially in that scenario when it was a punch out anyway, why risk it..

I think it is, but when I saw the replay the ball moved and didn't go back to its original spot.

 

[jjjgolf500]

It does look like the ball moves a bit, so by the book yes. But you need zoomed in slow mo to see for sure. Looks like the lie actually got a bit worse to me.

 

[Canadan]

It's worth not ignoring Rule 8.1b...

b. Actions That Are Allowed​

In preparing for or making a stroke, a player may take any of these actions and there is no penalty even if doing so improves the conditions affecting the stroke:

(4) Ground the club lightly right in front of or right behind the ball. “Ground the club lightly” means allowing the weight of the club to be supported by the grass, soil, sand or other material on or above the ground surface.

But this does not allow:

• Pressing the club on the ground

 

[Misike]

Here's the quote I saw, about the ball moving (and it being allowed to, if it comes back to the original spot)

“For a ball to move, based on the definition, it has to go to a different spot,” Dusbabek said. “It can move, but as long as it comes back to its original spot, it technically hasn’t moved. So, when we watch this tape, it looks like it’s come back to its same spot.”

Dusbabek admitted it didn’t look good for Clark as it pertained to possibly improving his lie.

From this article here: https://www.si.com/golf/2024/03/10/...lation-controversy-arnold-palmer-invitational

 

[Canadan]

It is ironic some of the very same commentators who have railed against the "ridiculous USGA" and all it's unnecessary and restrictive rules are now arguing with a straight face the rules are too permissive.

What do you mean?

 

[ddec]

To me it's real close, but I'd lean towards the it moved category. But I have no real convictions either way. If we say it moved, I don't think it was purposely done(not that it matters much).

I saw a lot on X comparing it to the Rahm one a few years ago...but that ball clearly moved. This does show some of the disadvantages these guys get when playing in the later groups. How many other golfers had a ball zoomed in on while playing the 18th hole yesterday?

 

[wadesworld]

What do you mean?

I mean Brandel and others on TV have railed about the "ridiculous" golf rules for years. Remember the Dustin Johnson controversies? Now here they are arguing the rules are too lax.

 

[CBaker]

This is the kind of stuff that makes golf look like a joke to people.

 

[El Rayo X]

That's what's know as the PReed move.

 

[Templet0n]

the ball moved so it's a penalty Imo. You typically see the pros test the ground away from the ball to make sure they don't move it. This is no different than trying to move a rock or leaf from around the ball without moving it. The ball moved so penalty should have been assessed.

They do this all the time to improve their lie.. It is way after a wayward drive you will see them carrying their driver down the fairway at times. They will then sole a the driver or fairway wood and improve their lie. then switch to an iron..

 

[Daluteh]

It's worth not ignoring Rule 8.1b...

b. Actions That Are Allowed​

In preparing for or making a stroke, a player may take any of these actions and there is no penalty even if doing so improves the conditions affecting the stroke:

(4) Ground the club lightly right in front of or right behind the ball. “Ground the club lightly” means allowing the weight of the club to be supported by the grass, soil, sand or other material on or above the ground surface.

But this does not allow:

• Pressing the club on the ground

They will always "press the club", I've never seen a pro just set the club down. They move their hands down with purpose.

 

[Canadan]

I mean Brandel and others on TV have railed about the "ridiculous" golf rules for years. Remember the Dustin Johnson controversies? Now here they are arguing the rules are too lax.

I didn't really watch the video haha - I just liked the circle image because it seemed pretty damning.

What I think is interesting is that the rules themselves aren't lax in this example, it's the application of the rulebook that is lax.

 

[jdtox]

Such a dumb rule in my opinion, I don't see how the ball moving that little is an issue

 

[Jeff Spicoli]

It's worth not ignoring Rule 8.1b...

b. Actions That Are Allowed​

In preparing for or making a stroke, a player may take any of these actions and there is no penalty even if doing so improves the conditions affecting the stroke:

(4) Ground the club lightly right in front of or right behind the ball. “Ground the club lightly” means allowing the weight of the club to be supported by the grass, soil, sand or other material on or above the ground surface.

But this does not allow:

• Pressing the club on the ground

He pressed

 

[Canadan]

They will always "press the club", I've never seen a pro just set the club down. They move their hands down with purpose.

this is mostly what I take issue with in regard to this sample, (and frankly his drop at Pebble), is that there is complete ignorance about that portion of the rulebook.

It seems like a fairly simple rule to enforce.

 

[Jeff Spicoli]

The internet would have exploded if this was Rory.

 

[Canadan]

Such a dumb rule in my opinion, I don't see how the ball moving that little is an issue

ever hit a floating lie wedge shot out of rough?

 

[Daluteh]

this is mostly what I take issue with in regard to this sample, (and frankly his drop at Pebble), is that there is complete ignorance about that portion of the rulebook.

It seems like a fairly simple rule to enforce.

I couldn't remember, was it him at Pebble? That was also a lot of controversy.

 

[Canadan]

The internet would have exploded if this was Rory.

I saw one of the comments saying "imagine this was Reed" and I think they are right.

Getting a pass or roasted based on who is doing it is ridiculous.

 

[Elmave]

It's worth not ignoring Rule 8.1b...

b. Actions That Are Allowed​

In preparing for or making a stroke, a player may take any of these actions and there is no penalty even if doing so improves the conditions affecting the stroke:

(4) Ground the club lightly right in front of or right behind the ball. “Ground the club lightly” means allowing the weight of the club to be supported by the grass, soil, sand or other material on or above the ground surface.

But this does not allow:

• Pressing the club on the ground

Interesting. The way the rule is written a player could argue that they grounded the club “ lightly and they did not “ press” the club on the ground. I dont think it is well written and leads to situations like this. Not sure of the best way to write it but i dont think this is it. Clearly though the player woud know if they “ pressed “ the club on the ground but at what point does it go from “ grounding lightly “ to “ pressing “.

 

[jdtox]

ever hit a floating lie wedge shot out of rough?

Yes of course. I'm just saying in general the ball moving that little seems like a dumb rule. If it was that big of an issue he would have gotten a penalty and if they really want to be sticklers about it don't let the tour guys ground a club directly behind the ball. I see guys do it all the time.

 

[Canadan]

I couldn't remember, was it him at Pebble? That was also a lot of controversy.

Yes. Where he got a favorable ruling and then dropped it where he trampled numerous times into a perfect lie.

The game of golf relies heavily on integrity. Repetition of questionable integrity is a very bad look.

 

[Canadan]

Yes of course. I'm just saying in general the ball moving that little seems like a dumb rule. If it was that big of an issue he would have gotten a penalty and if they really want to be sticklers about it don't let the tour guys ground a club directly behind the ball. I see guys do it all the time.

Doesn't that bother you?

A rule is a rule.