chicogolf
This game's fun GDit
Greetings Folks
I’m newer here and getting back into golf after a long layoff, so I’ve been on a steep learning curve. I’ve got a lot out of my time here on the forums thus far, and thought I’d give something back - even if it’s only applicable to the CA West coast folks and visitors. So, feedback is welcome and I hope I'm putting this in the correct area.
My situation, briefly, is that my equipment is old junk and I really need to replace the whole bag. I have purchased a TM Stage 2 Driver and 5 wood in R shaft. The rest of my bag is 10-15 year old stuff (Tour Edge Comp 950 irons R shaft - yuk; no name wedges, etc.). I currently play to a 15 handicap and, hopefully, heading down from there as I get to play more.
The most common fitting recommendation in my area is Haggin Oaks in Sacramento. For a full review of that facility, go here:
http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic...r-shop-ping-titleist-callaway-tm-you-name-it/
Link to Haggin Oaks: http://www.hagginoaks.com
My fitting review will not be as detailed as the above, due to a couple of factors: (1) I don’t have the skills of that reviewer and (2) I only did a partial iron fitting. I will explain as I go.
For those that haven’t heard of Bayonet / Black Horse, it is a top-notch facility and widely considered one of the best courses to play in the Monterey, CA area - and that’s before you factor in the value.
Main Link: http://www.bayonetblackhorse.com
The website explains that, each and every weekend, 8am - 2pm, they hold “Demo Days” where a player can hit some of the latest equipment - all on their beautiful all grass practice range. So, the first option, would be to just head out on a weekend, grab some clubs you’d like to hit, and have at it. The website also explains that they offer “Complimentary Fittings” for irons, woods, and wedges including use of a FlightScope X2 launch monitor. They also offer complimentary putter fitting using a high speed camera (nothing like SAM Lab or Tomi at his time). Putter fittings are normally offered in spring.
Here’s the details on “complimentary”: If you purchase clubs with them, the fittings are free. If you want to come out and just hit balls with new equipment without feedback, that is also free. If you go through the fitting process w/ the professional and don’t purchase clubs, you can pay $25 per club category and take the specifications with you. You can also decline to take the specifications with you and pay nothing. As I describe my fitting experience, I think this will make more sense.
I first contacted the fitters through their website appointment system. I received a return email from DJ, Assistant Golf Professional (and 2013 NCPGA Monterey Bay Area Club Fitter of the Year). We then spoke on the phone and I briefed him on my situation. I also informed him I was traveling quite a ways to reach the facility - about 220 miles 1-way (I like driving and was getting a day off from kids in the middle of vacation, which was nice…yay wife!).
First, I was 90min late for my appointment (sick kids up the night before). I phoned and spoke to DJ who said it wasn’t a problem. I arrived at 12:30pm. First impressions was the place was beautiful. Perfect weather and great facility. A huge grass driving range and ample pitching and putting areas. I wish I had taken more pictures and of higher quality, but here are a couple:
I checked into the pro shop and they told me to grab a cart and head down to the range. There I met DJ and another staff named Phillip and exchanged pleasantries. They handed me a bag of balls (Titleist PRACTICE balls), a wedge, and an 8-iron to go warm up.
Here’s where the fun began: I have been battling a tight shoulder for a few weeks and it did not cooperate this day. Basically, I couldn’t make a proper turn and, hence, couldn’t hit the freaking ball. At. All. I’m a 15 handicap but I was hacking it like a 30+. Shanks, thin, fat…everything. I was a mess and my shoulder was hurting and not loosening up and my swing was whacked. I told Phillip I was going to take a walk and pitch for a while and see if I could get a turn going. I did that for another 20min and headed back. I then took a couple more clubs and a bag of balls and went to the end of the range to figure things out. It took a while, but I got to where I was hitting it OK. Not great or typical for me, but ok. I was certainly more tense than usual and that wasn’t helping.
This is where I need to say that these people were incredibly understanding and patient with me. I was having major issues - like nothing I’ve ever had on a driving range, let alone in the few months since I’ve been back golfing. They were patient and encouraging. At one point, I joked that they should probably not get too close, as it was probably contagious. I’m sure they had a good empathetic chuckle or two (as I would have), but, really, they were fantastic and went beyond the call of duty in the patience department (and did so again later - see below).
So, I got into the bay with the launch monitor and started hitting. Buy this time, DJ was back from lunch and I dealt exclusively with him. I had already told him the shafts and heads I was interested in for irons. I exclusively hit the Project X 5.5 in the Mizuno EZ Forged, Titleist AP1 and AP2, and Adams XTD irons. I wish I could post numbers obtained with each head, but, I think I was a bit frazzled by the last 90min of ineptitude that I just listened to DJ’s feedback. He liked the numbers and flight the shaft was producing.
Here’s one thing that was interesting: DJ said that they don’t use a lie board fitting system. They use a system developed by Callaway. This involved putting a red stripe on the back of a ball and having a whack and looking at the placement and directionality of the line to determine lie angle, etc. Here's a link to a youtube video showing the technique:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhxOu6BFDZs&feature=youtu.be&t=3m40s
In the end, DJ’s recommendation was to go with AP2’s. I loved the feeling of them and he felt I have the swing foundation to make good use out of them. He also recommended I think about going 1/2” short, standard lie, as I was hitting a lot of shots fat. I think it was my crappy swing talking there and I also wonder if cutting the shaft will have an impact on flex, so I will likely stick with standard. The AP2 recommendation caught me off guard and I will be taking it under advisement. If I go with Titleist, I will seriously consider a combo set, most likely, of AP1 / AP2, as hitting the 4 and 5-iron in an AP2 has me a bit worried. I will see if I can get out with the 4 and 5 irons in ap2 and see how I do.
So, in summary, I did not do a full iron fitting but liked the experience, overall. DJ indicated that, were we starting from scratch, we would have used the Mizuno optimizer first and went from there. I had already given him my optimizer numbers, so we skipped that step. My only previous comparison was my non launch monitor fitting out of a mizuno cart w/ lie board, etc. It does appear that previous fitting got the shaft right re: PX 5.5.
So, we moved on to woods. We started with picking a 3-wood, as it is something I was willing to purchase that day, if possible. All 3-woods tested were in 15*. I started with the new Taylor Made Jetspeed which I hit well and liked the feel - definite improvement over the 12 year old Tour Edge I currently game. We took data on about 6 swings with that club, with my misses being my typical push right. Hooks were gone, however, as all the wood shafts I tested were in stiff. I game R shafts in my woods right now and this fitting really helped me realize I have that wrong.
We moved on to the Adams XTD fairway. I really liked this one, though the weighting was a bit odd as was the slot in the top. I hit it well, however, with less dispersion than with the jetspeed. We then moved on to the Tour Edge Exotics XCG7. I proceeded to hit this thing a ton, with a couple of shots going 260 (big for me). Mishits were still hit quite well and the club just appeared to want to go straight. I was in love. I decided to stop there and I purchased the Tour Edge.
At this point, it was about 2:45 or 3pm and DJ suggested we move on to drivers. I then asked “how long are you guys out here today?” He said, “Normally we’re here until 2pm”. Rut roh…I had thought they stayed out all day and had forgotten what the website said. I felt awful and apologized profusely. His response was, “You drove a long way to get here and I have nowhere else to be. It’s fine.” He was genuine and set me at ease. I was very thankful.
We then started with drivers. The first driver I hit was the Adams XTD driver then moved on to the driver version of the Tour Edge 3-wood I purchased. Both were just OK and launch seemed a bit low when struck well. DJ then started putting a few different clubs in my hand and I kind of lost track and just hit. At one point, we ended up with the Taylor Made SLDR and he started messing with the weight ‘sliding’ it toward he heel. He also, at one point, changed out SLDR heads entirely, going to a head with a bit less loft so he could get it to the correct face angle. That new head felt great and I hit it best. If I were able to afford a driver that day, I would have probably got the SLDR. One thing that became apparent to me re: woods was that I need to, at least, switch the shafts out in my TM RBZ Stage 2’s. I’d love to afford an SLDR, but it’s not in the cards right now.
By this time, I was pretty tired and not swinging really efficiently, still struggling with trying to protect my shoulder and not turning. I hit a few Vokey wedges and decided to pick up a 56-11. The thing felt like butter. Kind of an impulse buy, but anything is better than the 15 year old 56* I have right now.
Final Impressions: I was quite pleased with the experience. I cannot say enough about the kindness and patience of the staff - they truly went beyond the call of duty. It’s not like I was a big ticket player ready to drop $5k on equipment. Before I arrived, I told DJ that, out of loyalty, if I purchased irons it would be through my local club. His response to this was, “If the shoe was on the other foot, I’d want you to do the same. I think it’s great you’re going through your local club.” That pretty much sums it up.
If I had to do it over, I would have spent more time studying the monitor numbers. I’m sure DJ was providing accurate feedback, but it would have been best for my own education. I could have taken some pictures of the data and been able to report it here.
The $25 per area fitted is crazy cheap. So much so, I wanted to confirm with DJ that he was OK with me posting it. His response was that they prefer to promote the 'complimentary with purchase' part of their program, but don’t mind if some people just want the specs. My guess is there is some kind of run on people coming out just to get the specs, that price would change.
From reading the Haggin Oaks fitting, my guess is that it is a bit more detailed or at least exhaustive than what I experienced at Bayonet / BlackHorse with access to some more equipment. However, that could have just been a function of my inexperience and not having the forethought to thoroughly examine the launch numbers. For the money, however, you can't beat the Bayonet / Blackhorse deal. I think anybody within range of Monterey should go check these guys out. I plan on attending a putter fitting in Spring, for sure
.
matt
ps: While out on the range, DJ quoted me $249 on the driver (I had no idea what it cost). When I got down to the shop to pay, it was $299. Apparently, DJ was looking one line below at the non “beta” version. The Vokey was $129 which I believe is MSRP (my local club sells this wedge for $119 - found that out when I got home). They radioed down to DJ re: the oversight. He took $25 off my order. More than fair, IMO.
I’m newer here and getting back into golf after a long layoff, so I’ve been on a steep learning curve. I’ve got a lot out of my time here on the forums thus far, and thought I’d give something back - even if it’s only applicable to the CA West coast folks and visitors. So, feedback is welcome and I hope I'm putting this in the correct area.
My situation, briefly, is that my equipment is old junk and I really need to replace the whole bag. I have purchased a TM Stage 2 Driver and 5 wood in R shaft. The rest of my bag is 10-15 year old stuff (Tour Edge Comp 950 irons R shaft - yuk; no name wedges, etc.). I currently play to a 15 handicap and, hopefully, heading down from there as I get to play more.
The most common fitting recommendation in my area is Haggin Oaks in Sacramento. For a full review of that facility, go here:
http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic...r-shop-ping-titleist-callaway-tm-you-name-it/
Link to Haggin Oaks: http://www.hagginoaks.com
My fitting review will not be as detailed as the above, due to a couple of factors: (1) I don’t have the skills of that reviewer and (2) I only did a partial iron fitting. I will explain as I go.
For those that haven’t heard of Bayonet / Black Horse, it is a top-notch facility and widely considered one of the best courses to play in the Monterey, CA area - and that’s before you factor in the value.
Main Link: http://www.bayonetblackhorse.com
The website explains that, each and every weekend, 8am - 2pm, they hold “Demo Days” where a player can hit some of the latest equipment - all on their beautiful all grass practice range. So, the first option, would be to just head out on a weekend, grab some clubs you’d like to hit, and have at it. The website also explains that they offer “Complimentary Fittings” for irons, woods, and wedges including use of a FlightScope X2 launch monitor. They also offer complimentary putter fitting using a high speed camera (nothing like SAM Lab or Tomi at his time). Putter fittings are normally offered in spring.
Here’s the details on “complimentary”: If you purchase clubs with them, the fittings are free. If you want to come out and just hit balls with new equipment without feedback, that is also free. If you go through the fitting process w/ the professional and don’t purchase clubs, you can pay $25 per club category and take the specifications with you. You can also decline to take the specifications with you and pay nothing. As I describe my fitting experience, I think this will make more sense.
I first contacted the fitters through their website appointment system. I received a return email from DJ, Assistant Golf Professional (and 2013 NCPGA Monterey Bay Area Club Fitter of the Year). We then spoke on the phone and I briefed him on my situation. I also informed him I was traveling quite a ways to reach the facility - about 220 miles 1-way (I like driving and was getting a day off from kids in the middle of vacation, which was nice…yay wife!).
First, I was 90min late for my appointment (sick kids up the night before). I phoned and spoke to DJ who said it wasn’t a problem. I arrived at 12:30pm. First impressions was the place was beautiful. Perfect weather and great facility. A huge grass driving range and ample pitching and putting areas. I wish I had taken more pictures and of higher quality, but here are a couple:
I checked into the pro shop and they told me to grab a cart and head down to the range. There I met DJ and another staff named Phillip and exchanged pleasantries. They handed me a bag of balls (Titleist PRACTICE balls), a wedge, and an 8-iron to go warm up.
Here’s where the fun began: I have been battling a tight shoulder for a few weeks and it did not cooperate this day. Basically, I couldn’t make a proper turn and, hence, couldn’t hit the freaking ball. At. All. I’m a 15 handicap but I was hacking it like a 30+. Shanks, thin, fat…everything. I was a mess and my shoulder was hurting and not loosening up and my swing was whacked. I told Phillip I was going to take a walk and pitch for a while and see if I could get a turn going. I did that for another 20min and headed back. I then took a couple more clubs and a bag of balls and went to the end of the range to figure things out. It took a while, but I got to where I was hitting it OK. Not great or typical for me, but ok. I was certainly more tense than usual and that wasn’t helping.
This is where I need to say that these people were incredibly understanding and patient with me. I was having major issues - like nothing I’ve ever had on a driving range, let alone in the few months since I’ve been back golfing. They were patient and encouraging. At one point, I joked that they should probably not get too close, as it was probably contagious. I’m sure they had a good empathetic chuckle or two (as I would have), but, really, they were fantastic and went beyond the call of duty in the patience department (and did so again later - see below).
So, I got into the bay with the launch monitor and started hitting. Buy this time, DJ was back from lunch and I dealt exclusively with him. I had already told him the shafts and heads I was interested in for irons. I exclusively hit the Project X 5.5 in the Mizuno EZ Forged, Titleist AP1 and AP2, and Adams XTD irons. I wish I could post numbers obtained with each head, but, I think I was a bit frazzled by the last 90min of ineptitude that I just listened to DJ’s feedback. He liked the numbers and flight the shaft was producing.
Here’s one thing that was interesting: DJ said that they don’t use a lie board fitting system. They use a system developed by Callaway. This involved putting a red stripe on the back of a ball and having a whack and looking at the placement and directionality of the line to determine lie angle, etc. Here's a link to a youtube video showing the technique:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhxOu6BFDZs&feature=youtu.be&t=3m40s
In the end, DJ’s recommendation was to go with AP2’s. I loved the feeling of them and he felt I have the swing foundation to make good use out of them. He also recommended I think about going 1/2” short, standard lie, as I was hitting a lot of shots fat. I think it was my crappy swing talking there and I also wonder if cutting the shaft will have an impact on flex, so I will likely stick with standard. The AP2 recommendation caught me off guard and I will be taking it under advisement. If I go with Titleist, I will seriously consider a combo set, most likely, of AP1 / AP2, as hitting the 4 and 5-iron in an AP2 has me a bit worried. I will see if I can get out with the 4 and 5 irons in ap2 and see how I do.
So, in summary, I did not do a full iron fitting but liked the experience, overall. DJ indicated that, were we starting from scratch, we would have used the Mizuno optimizer first and went from there. I had already given him my optimizer numbers, so we skipped that step. My only previous comparison was my non launch monitor fitting out of a mizuno cart w/ lie board, etc. It does appear that previous fitting got the shaft right re: PX 5.5.
So, we moved on to woods. We started with picking a 3-wood, as it is something I was willing to purchase that day, if possible. All 3-woods tested were in 15*. I started with the new Taylor Made Jetspeed which I hit well and liked the feel - definite improvement over the 12 year old Tour Edge I currently game. We took data on about 6 swings with that club, with my misses being my typical push right. Hooks were gone, however, as all the wood shafts I tested were in stiff. I game R shafts in my woods right now and this fitting really helped me realize I have that wrong.
We moved on to the Adams XTD fairway. I really liked this one, though the weighting was a bit odd as was the slot in the top. I hit it well, however, with less dispersion than with the jetspeed. We then moved on to the Tour Edge Exotics XCG7. I proceeded to hit this thing a ton, with a couple of shots going 260 (big for me). Mishits were still hit quite well and the club just appeared to want to go straight. I was in love. I decided to stop there and I purchased the Tour Edge.
At this point, it was about 2:45 or 3pm and DJ suggested we move on to drivers. I then asked “how long are you guys out here today?” He said, “Normally we’re here until 2pm”. Rut roh…I had thought they stayed out all day and had forgotten what the website said. I felt awful and apologized profusely. His response was, “You drove a long way to get here and I have nowhere else to be. It’s fine.” He was genuine and set me at ease. I was very thankful.
We then started with drivers. The first driver I hit was the Adams XTD driver then moved on to the driver version of the Tour Edge 3-wood I purchased. Both were just OK and launch seemed a bit low when struck well. DJ then started putting a few different clubs in my hand and I kind of lost track and just hit. At one point, we ended up with the Taylor Made SLDR and he started messing with the weight ‘sliding’ it toward he heel. He also, at one point, changed out SLDR heads entirely, going to a head with a bit less loft so he could get it to the correct face angle. That new head felt great and I hit it best. If I were able to afford a driver that day, I would have probably got the SLDR. One thing that became apparent to me re: woods was that I need to, at least, switch the shafts out in my TM RBZ Stage 2’s. I’d love to afford an SLDR, but it’s not in the cards right now.
By this time, I was pretty tired and not swinging really efficiently, still struggling with trying to protect my shoulder and not turning. I hit a few Vokey wedges and decided to pick up a 56-11. The thing felt like butter. Kind of an impulse buy, but anything is better than the 15 year old 56* I have right now.
Final Impressions: I was quite pleased with the experience. I cannot say enough about the kindness and patience of the staff - they truly went beyond the call of duty. It’s not like I was a big ticket player ready to drop $5k on equipment. Before I arrived, I told DJ that, out of loyalty, if I purchased irons it would be through my local club. His response to this was, “If the shoe was on the other foot, I’d want you to do the same. I think it’s great you’re going through your local club.” That pretty much sums it up.
If I had to do it over, I would have spent more time studying the monitor numbers. I’m sure DJ was providing accurate feedback, but it would have been best for my own education. I could have taken some pictures of the data and been able to report it here.
The $25 per area fitted is crazy cheap. So much so, I wanted to confirm with DJ that he was OK with me posting it. His response was that they prefer to promote the 'complimentary with purchase' part of their program, but don’t mind if some people just want the specs. My guess is there is some kind of run on people coming out just to get the specs, that price would change.
From reading the Haggin Oaks fitting, my guess is that it is a bit more detailed or at least exhaustive than what I experienced at Bayonet / BlackHorse with access to some more equipment. However, that could have just been a function of my inexperience and not having the forethought to thoroughly examine the launch numbers. For the money, however, you can't beat the Bayonet / Blackhorse deal. I think anybody within range of Monterey should go check these guys out. I plan on attending a putter fitting in Spring, for sure
. matt
ps: While out on the range, DJ quoted me $249 on the driver (I had no idea what it cost). When I got down to the shop to pay, it was $299. Apparently, DJ was looking one line below at the non “beta” version. The Vokey was $129 which I believe is MSRP (my local club sells this wedge for $119 - found that out when I got home). They radioed down to DJ re: the oversight. He took $25 off my order. More than fair, IMO.
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