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New Driver Shaft Study

Nippon Shafts
-CRW-

-CRW-

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I read a shaft study

What they found is interesting. They took multiple testers and multiple shafts all in a similar weight category. They used the same club head, flex, and golf ball for everyone.

The results were that spin varied as much as 1000 rpms between shafts even in the same weight/flex category with all other potential variables remaining constant. So you can imagine the differences most would see when testing across flex or weight categories.

Another important finding was that, with the same head, one shaft may have a tendency to help you consistently hit draws when another could lead to consistent fades. Again, this was despite the shafts being in the same flex and very similar weights.
 
Goes to so there is no "standard" when it comes to golf equipment. One shaft companies stiff can be another's regular flex. Fitting is key.
 
Interesting. I'd like to see the individual shots. Would be interesting to compare the best strikes against each other, and the worst strikes against each other.


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c.a.eleric said:
Interesting. I'd like to see the individual shots. Would be interesting to compare the best strikes against each other, and the worst strikes against each other.


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They did that as well.
 
Howzat said:
Goes to so there is no "standard" when it comes to golf equipment. One shaft companies stiff can be another's regular flex. Fitting is key.
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Agreed.
 
ASN21 said:
They did that as well.
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Ok but I would like to see what those numbers looked like. I feel like some shafts I try are really penalizing on mishits while others aren't. So i think it would be interesting to see what kind of data could be extrapolated from those kinds of results.


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From your time at PX does torque affect how penalizing a miss hit is? I am a shaft idiot, try a lot of them but really could not tell you why the Hrzdus black works for me besides that it does well on misses and fantastic on center face contact. Is that a degree of the shaft twisting or not at impact?


c.a.eleric said:
Ok but I would like to see what those numbers looked like. I feel like some shafts I try are really penalizing on mishits while others aren't. So i think it would be interesting to see what kind of data could be extrapolated from those kinds of results.


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jim54 said:
From your time at PX does torque affect how penalizing a miss hit is? I am a shaft idiot, try a lot of them but really could not tell you why the Hrzdus black works for me besides that it does well on misses and fantastic on center face contact. Is that a degree of the shaft twisting or not at impact?
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I'm only telling you how it's been explained to me. I've said it elsewhere and it's been met with incredulity, but I'm not the scientist degrees in metallurgy and some other ridiculously nerdy smartness so don't shoot the messenger!

Torque is the degree of twisting at impact. But in the cannon testing px does the head starts twisting when the ball is about 30 yards down the fairway. It does twist, but that twisting isn't happening in a way that affects most of us unless we are the strongest and fastest of swingers.

Torque is a perception thing. You will feel the head twisting more the lower the degree of torque is. A "better" player will perceive more "feedback" from strikes of varying quality with low torque. But for us mortals who miss and miss often, we will perceive low torque as harshness and discomfort the worse the miss is. For a better player, higher torque will feel dead. For an average player, higher torque will feel better. All things being equal, a nutted shot will feel the best in a lower torque shaft; it feels effortless. At least that's what I took away from the discussion.

I do think at faster swing speeds with more aggressive loads and more stress on the shaft there is something to torque that goes beyond feel. But that discussion is irrelevant for most of us.

And my last thought is that don't believe what you read about torque numbers on a manufacturer's site. They can get creative when measuring torque so that golf nerds like we are don't totally dismiss a shaft because it's too high torque.


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I honestly believe the "torque only equals feel" idea applies to centered contact. I'll have to find it, but there is an article on flighscopes website showing how much a head twists at impact on a mis-hit. I can't help but think that having too high of torque can really exaggerate that twisting that's already occurring.
 
-CRW- said:
I honestly believe the "torque only equals feel" idea applies to centered contact. I'll have to find it, but there is an article on flighscopes website showing how much a head twists at impact on a mis-hit. I can't help but think that having too high of torque can really exaggerate that twisting that's already occurring.
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Of twisting is a main concern, why not play the highest moi driver head as well?
 
JB said:
Of twisting is a main concern, why not play the highest moi driver head as well?
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But that would pop a hole into the shaft being the biggest factor thinking.
 
I don't think I'll ever get on board with the shaft being more influential than the head on ball flight.
That said I have seen certain swing types see a drastic difference in performance from a shaft change.
 
I'm the same AG about being more influential. The component is the big changer and the shaft can take it further. In some cases I think the shaft can do as much to change.
 
ArmyGolf said:
I don't think I'll ever get on board with the shaft being more influential than the head on ball flight.
That said I have seen certain swing types see a drastic difference in performance from a shaft change.
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In a fitting the shaft is there to help on the fine tuning
 
JB said:
Of twisting is a main concern, why not play the highest moi driver head as well?
Click to expand...


blugold said:
But that would pop a hole into the shaft being the biggest factor thinking.
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If only it were that simple. It's tough to get high MOI without increasing spin due to changes in the weighting of the head. If you already spin too much most of the high MOI heads (maybe all) won't work as well as other heads.

The idea that the shaft can drop 1000 rpms even when comparing similar weights/flexes, doesn't negate the need to fit the head too.

It's just been proven once again that the shaft really does matter much more than many want to believe.
 
-CRW- said:
It's just been proven once again that the shaft really does matter much more than many want to believe.
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Has anybody said that the shaft doesn't matter?
 
Here we go again...
 
-CRW- said:
It's just been proven once again that the shaft really does matter much more than many want to believe.
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As much as I'd like to believe that so I can save myself some money, I've found a lot of accuracy by switching shafts and by demoing the 917 picked up 15 yards of carry just by changing shafts. Then again I could just of hit it more center with one shaft but on both high quality feeling(yes I know not tested for location just felt center) I saw better yardage but no doubt better dispersion.
 
blugold said:
Has anybody said that the shaft doesn't matter?
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No, but also someone saying that the head matters most goes right against fitters like Club Champion, where you get fitted into a shaft first and head second. In the end, they find a head/shaft combination that works best for you, but they start out with finding out what shaft works best first.
 
blugold said:
Has anybody said that the shaft doesn't matter?
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Of course, and it's always the same few. It wouldn't take more than a few minutes to find them when searching the site.

Quotes like this come up often:

It doesn't matter nearly like people think it does, that's just a fact. (Referring to shaft flex)

Shafts don't matter as much as we think they do.

Shafts aren't going to drastically change numbers. (Proven absolutely false in this recent study)

Shafts are for fine tuning (1000 rpms seems like a lot more than fine tuning to me).
 
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Link to the study?
 
blugold said:
Link to the study?
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I hinted at it the first time I started this thread and the thread got deleted. So your going to have to search for it.
 
-CRW- said:
I hinted at it the first time I started this thread and the thread got deleted. So your going to have to search for it.
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Are you referencing the one posted today from MGS?
 
blugold said:
Are you referencing the one posted today from MGS?
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I didn't even use that abbreviation and this thread got killed. Maybe it will stay up since it's not me that wrote them.
 
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