is titleist falling a tad behind most others in driver distance

Id suggest we put the new Call...Epic aside for the moment as that club via some new engineering seems to be generating a tad more ball speed than anyone right now and I think most are going to behind till they catch up with that tech.

. But as for all others and video reviews it just seems Titleist (whether the 915 or the new 917 and even going back to 913 some) is somewhat lacking behind most others in driver distance when it comes to many videos and their simulator results. Not a whole ton but still lacking. They do seem to generate good feedback for perhaps exceling in the forgiveness, looks and feel dept but not by much. I understand reviews (and we can find so many videos of them) are not always what they are cracked up to be. Sometimes there is a tad of bias involved and most the times you can look at the charts results the reviewers post and find that during the sets they simply on average swung a club faster than another, perhaps hit more sweatspot more often with another club, and perhaps had shafts where one simply worked better for that ball striker than what the other club had on it.

All that can certainly skew some results. But still....overall you can find vid after vid of T 915/917 being beat out distance wise again and again. At least it just seems this way anyway. I have the 910 and when I bought that it was the only club of many I swung in simulators on several occasions that resulted in longer ave drives (for me) vs all the others I tested.

Since that time of course here we are after the 910,913,915 and now at the 917. As im in the market for a new driver Ive hit a few and like 917 a lot but have to say did not see any real noticeable improvment and given the limits on clubs and tech for the most part at those limits with most any driver I wasn't really expecting any great world of difference. In general I would think its more about the shaft, forgiveness, looks, and feel, since there really shouldn't be any great worlds apart of distance differences. The only club to be honest that seemed to generate more ball speed on average was the new Cal epic and was really the only one noticeable enough to me to truly say so and so I will be going back to check it out some more. But as said I think to leave that one out for now due to its perhaps finding a way of setting a new benchmark above all the rest and possibly standing on its own in the distance department. So if we only look at all the others in a non Epic world it surprises me that I find so many reviews/videos to claim and post collective charted results of Titleist too often beat out by many.

As for most all others has Titleist been missed something here when it comes to their competitors distance tech? Putting out new club every 2 years one would think they would been advancing among the best of them distance wise. Or perhaps better said just simply at least not fall on the bottom of the reviewers lists again and again when it comes to distance tests. Again I know we have to really look at test results as for why and what may have went on with them to possibly skew them, but its collectively too many imo where as it leaves me to question Titleist here.

What do you think? And please,...whether your a Titleist loyalist or Titleist hater please try not be bias but instead try to be fair when you offer opinion. Perhaps titleist is simply a bit more concerned with tour level driver than for the amateur. I mean most tour pros and high level amateurs are hitting more than long enough anyway and also accurate enough anyway. IDK if that's the case but but just sayin. Anyway are they lacking in this sense at least a little?

A few general reactions here:

1) I doubt it it lagging behind, the COR is maxed out. Maybe just not advertised as such.
2) I haven't hit it so I can't give any first hand reaction
3) Are Titleist loyalists chasing distance or just chasing the new driver?

I'm not seeing any distance loss and have seen either same distance and have hit some of,my longest drives with the 917. Some of my frequent playing partners were surprised how far I was hitting some drives when I played with them a few weeks ago. In the last 2-3 years I have not tested a driver that was far and above distance wise over another. My carry distances have remained in the 250ish on avg for awhile and was that way at club clash last year with numerous offerings.

I think the target demographic for Titleist is not chasing distance but is more sold on prestige and to tour lineage.

I wouldn't really call it falling behind. 917 for me was within 5 yards of distance with the Epic. Have talked to many others who has seem similar results. If anything, I think they've actually improved from a forgiveness stand point. Most of the top drivers now are pretty comparable in distance, it's going to come down to fitting and strike.

I have seen people have fitting #'s on THP that show the 917 as the longest actually, even over the Epic and M's. Certainly might not be for everyone, but I don't think they are lagging behind at all. The 917 also sounds fantastic, and is a pretty awesome looking driver as I got a front seat to 6435 hitting it this weekend.

blugold said:

A few general reactions here:

1) I doubt it it lagging behind, the COR is maxed out. Maybe just not advertised as such.
2) I haven't hit it so I can't give any first hand reaction
3) Are Titleist loyalists chasing distance or just chasing the new driver?

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Just a quick heads up, COR is not used to regulate drivers. They are using Characteristic Time (CT) and there are some that believe that a few of the current drivers, pass CT, but would not pass COR.

JB said:

Just a quick heads up, COR is not used to regulate drivers. They are using Characteristic Time (CT) and there are some that believe that a few of the current drivers, pass CT, but would not pass COR.

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I appreciate that bit of information.

Golf Ghost said:

I wouldn't really call it falling behind. 917 for me was within 5 yards of distance with the Epic. Have talked to many others who has seem similar results. If anything, I think they've actually improved from a forgiveness stand point. Most of the top drivers now are pretty comparable in distance, it's going to come down to fitting and strike.

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that's kind of was my point. I agree most top drivers are comparable in distance and believe so. It seems (and perhaps not for evryone) but collective results are placing the epic at seeming to beat out most others and is why Im leaving that one out of the equation. Though we don't have to. But In general yes I agree they should all be about the same or very close. I agre also the shaft that fits best for that person and the strikes should be the biggest factors for any real differences as for distance. And is something I mentioned in my open and is how tests can be skewed. But again, when you see collective results that seem to indicate something it does eventually add up and must mean a little something. Whether its 3 yrds ave or 5 or 8 whatever, when you tend to see this trend kind of makes one begin to question even though you understand the things that can skew it. Just seems a tad lopsided that it doesn't skew the other way much. And so I question it.

rollin said:

that's kind of was my point. I agree most top drivers are comparable in distance and believe so. It seems (and perhaps not for evryone) but collective results are placing the epic at seeming to beat out most others and is why Im leaving that one out of the equation. Though we don't have to. But In general yes I agree they should all be about the same or very close. I agre also the shaft that fits best for that person and the strikes should be the biggest factors for any real differences as for distance. And is something I mentioned in my open and is how tests can be skewed. But again, when you see collective results that seem to indicate something it does eventually add up and must mean a little something. Whether its 3 yrds ave or 5 or 8 whatever, when you tend to see this trend kind of makes one begin to question even though you understand the things that can skew it. Just seems a tad lopsided that it doesn't skew the other way much. And so I question it.

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I'll be honest. You have me confused on what you're questioning then haha. Sorry.

Golf Ghost said:

I'll be honest. You have me confused on what you're questioning then haha. Sorry.

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its basically what I've indicated. Sorry if my wording is confusing. There are many reviews where titleist has been beat out distance wise by other makers and imo its a bit too many leaning that way for it to be only coincidence via shaft and strike skewed results. So I question...have they been a tad behind or perhaps not as concerned as for where max distance is concerned.

I think it's all personal to each individual. Some will see the 917 be shorter than they're used to and others won't see much change and others will see distance gains. I think it's the same for all drivers across the board. Everyone is going to be different. No one strikes the ball in the same place every time except maybe tour pros so one day you may see distance gains the next you may see a loss in distance. When I went to a demo day it was tied with the longest carry next to the M1 and both were only 2 yards longer carry than the Epic SZ. Total distance 917 had the M1 by 4 yards for me and epic was a half a yard behind. All those numbers and everything were completely different for my old man. But one thing I will always say is if you get fit for absolute optimal by all the OEMs I truly believe they will all be a lot closer than we think regardless of what technology is in where.

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It's hard to say as it is very hard to get an apples to apples comparison... a myriad of reasons could explain this, but different shafts could be a big reason... also someone like myself doesn't have the same swing from day-to-day... or hell, minute-to-minute.

Also, honest question, is everyone simply searching for distance? I purchased a driver this year and the SZ and Triton gave me the most distance (I selected neither of these drivers )

rollin said:

its basically what I've indicated. Sorry if my wording is confusing. There are many reviews where titleist has been beat out distance wise by other makers and imo its a bit too many leaning that way for it to be only coincidence via shaft and strike skewed results. So I question...have they been a tad behind or perhaps not as concerned as for where max distance is concerned.

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I don't know how 5 yards is falling behind other drivers? IMO, there isn't much more that any company can do to maximize COR or CT. Now if you are comparing the 915 to this year's 917, the 917 is far and away much better driver for a lot of reasons. Me being a Titleist homer for a long time, have seen Titleist grow every year.

But when you are comparing less than 5 yards between companies ... aren't we splitting hairs at that point? I'm still hitting the same club as you into the green, your just 5 yards closer. :act-up:

i think there are guys who get paid to play the gear, who would agree with op


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I've got a 910D2 that's been in the bag for 3-4 years. I've talked to my fitter about the Epic and a couple other drivers. But, haven't hit any of the new stuff yet. He and I play golf together several times a year. When asking him about distance and the new offerings, he basically said I may just need to go to a lighter shaft. So, I really don't believe that what's out there now is offering up so much yardage gains as to justify 400-500. But, he does say the customers are coming in and dropping 500 on an Epic, no questions asked. But, I don't know what those customers are trading up from.

staticline said:

I've got a 910D2 that's been in the bag for 3-4 years. I've talked to my fitter about the Epic and a couple other drivers. But, haven't hit any of the new stuff yet. He and I play golf together several times a year. When asking him about distance and the new offerings, he basically said I may just need to go to a lighter shaft. So, I really don't believe that what's out there now is offering up so much yardage gains as to justify 400-500. But, he does say the customers are coming in and dropping 500 on an Epic, no questions asked. But, I don't know what those customers are trading up from.

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Of all the drivers I've ever moved on from, the 910 D2 is the one I regret the most. Just a fantastic club all around.


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golfinnut said:

I don't know how 5 yards is falling behind other drivers? IMO, there isn't much more that any company can do to maximize COR or CT. Now if you are comparing the 915 to this year's 917, the 917 is far and away much better driver for a lot of reasons. Me being a Titleist homer for a long time, have seen Titleist grow every year.

But when you are comparing less than 5 yards between companies ... aren't we splitting hairs at that point? I'm still hitting the same club as you into the green, your just 5 yards closer. :act-up:

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I wont get into falling behind or not falling behind, as I dont necessarily think they are.
However to say there is not a lot left to do is not all that complete. COR was set around 1999, yet drivers have gotten a LOT longer, a lot more forgiving and a lot better (regardless of brand).
If this was the case, there would be no reason to go from 915 to 917 or heck even 905 to 917 or even beyond.

A lot has been done...By all brands.

My Golf Spy just did an unbiased review of all the new drivers and the Epic isn't even number one. Srixon Z565 is. I honestly think the Epic is more hype than anything else. Epic came in at number 2 for them, but it really doesn't mean anything. Every company makes a great driver. It comes down to what you like more and what fits your swing best.

One of my good buddies spent time trying an Epic at Demo Day. He swings a Titelist whatever driver from a couple of years ago and it outperformed the Epic.

My daughter was Trying to be fitted for the Epic and it didn't work out. She spent 2 and a half hours at our club being fit with dozens of different shafts. At the end of the day, her XR16 outperformed the Epic on the launch monitor by about 3 yards carry and 7 yards total distance and was more accurate.

My son tried getting fit for the Epic also. He, like my daughter, spent two hours at the range being fitted on a Flight Scope. He was fit with different shafts. settings. etc. At the end of the day his old Taylormade Jetspeed outperformed the Epic by 5 carry yards and about 10 in total distance and was more accurate.

golfinnut said:

I don't know how 5 yards is falling behind other drivers? IMO, there isn't much more that any company can do to maximize COR or CT. Now if you are comparing the 915 to this year's 917, the 917 is far and away much better driver for a lot of reasons. Me being a Titleist homer for a long time, have seen Titleist grow every year.

But when you are comparing less than 5 yards between companies ... aren't we splitting hairs at that point? I'm still hitting the same club as you into the green, your just 5 yards closer. :act-up:

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Im not implying they havnt grown but just perhaps question how much grown in the distance dept. To be honest, even 5 yrds is not really splitting hairs at all imo but is significant when speaking relatively. I mean speaking from/living in a world where as you put it "not much more a company can do" so 5 yrds in that sense yes is a lot relative to the limitations and the battle to be the longest within those limitations.

So yea, squeezing every last drop counts. That's not to say I would buy a driver because it was 5yrds longer but given most all else about another driver being fairly equal I would then chose that one. Who wouldn't? An extra yard or two one year and then another 3 the next by any maker and its not splitting hairs but a real accomplishment given the handcuffs.

With that said this is not about whether or not a few extra yards is all that important to someone. Regardless of that is simply about whether or not they are perhaps sitting behind other clubs.

As for your 915/917 Im not 100% certain but aside from the removable weights slot, the heads and faces appear almost identical. Both same tech with thicker sweatspot yet thinner off center faces and both with the chanel behind the faces so not so sure how/if your seeing one "far and away" so much better than the other. Outside the weight slot that may be a splitting hairs thing more than any distance gains would be.

hcopenhagenh said:

My Golf Spy just did an unbiased review of all the new drivers and the Epic isn't even number one. Srixon Z565 is. I honestly think the Epic is more hype than anything else. Epic came in at number 2 for them, but it really doesn't mean anything. Every company makes a great driver. It comes down to what you like more and what fits your swing best.

One of my good buddies spent time trying an Epic at Demo Day. He swings a Titelist whatever driver from a couple of years ago and it outperformed the Epic.

My daughter was Trying to be fitted for the Epic and it didn't work out. She spent 2 and a half hours at our club being fit with dozens of different shafts. At the end of the day, her XR16 outperformed the Epic on the launch monitor by about 3 yards carry and 7 yards total distance and was more accurate.

My son tried getting fit for the Epic also. He, like my daughter, spent two hours at the range being fitted on a Flight Scope. He was fit with different shafts. settings. etc. At the end of the day his old Taylormade Jetspeed outperformed the Epic by 5 carry yards and about 10 in total distance and was more accurate.

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This ^^^^ would seem to be opposite what most reviews would state. surly it wont be for everyone but if you read reviews and tests its very hard to find many who would not say that most people gained yardage with that club. Even fitters have commented via video and/or written text that while not everyone they fitted , there was an improvement with most people. So there is something to that cub to be taken seriously simply by default of so many collective reviews often placing it at or near the top in distance (and/or ball speed). Much the same way collectively reviews and comparisons vs other clubs Titleist seems to often be nearer the bottom distance wise and what the question here would be.

it may not be all that large, but again, in a world where makers are handcuffed anything is significant imo.

With the number of drives I've personally hit with the 917 over 300. I'm okay with the short side of Titleist. Couple that with a better driving accuracy.....I think I'm doing ok with it in the bag.

Well. I gained about 10 yards with my 917 purchase over my 2014 Big Bertha.

I'm not nearly a technical person enough to chime in with the science behind things, but the 917 D2 also has a driver length of 45", whereas, the TM 2016 M2 was 45.75". Epic is coming in around 45.5". I literally have no idea how much of a difference that makes.

All I know is, I saw better ball flight, more forgiveness, slight distance increase, and a whole lot more fairways. I wasn't expecting to buy it, but I couldn't argue with the results for my swing.

There's more to golf than distance.

~Rock

T2GRN18 said:

With the number of drives I've personally hit with the 917 over 300. I'm okay with the short side of Titleist. Couple that with a better driving accuracy.....I think I'm doing ok with it in the bag.

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no one is doubting 91X series clubs abilities to hit the ball far. Nor that one isn't doing perfectly fine with one. I have one myself, is what I use and I like it. Not really the point of the thread though as none of that means they may be (or not) lagging just a tad.

McRock said:

Well. I gained about 10 yards with my 917 purchase over my 2014 Big Bertha.

I'm not nearly a technical person enough to chime in with the science behind things, but the 917 D2 also has a driver length of 45", whereas, the TM 2016 M2 was 45.75". Epic is coming in around 45.5". I literally have no idea how much of a difference that makes.

All I know is, I saw better ball flight, more forgiveness, slight distance increase, and a whole lot more fairways. I wasn't expecting to buy it, but I couldn't argue with the results for my swing.

There's more to golf than distance.

~Rock

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There is certainly more to driving than distance alone. one huge thing is a clubs ability to maintain good distance for mishits and that may prove more important for most players than the sweatspot hit. And the distances we are talking about are not worlds apart. None the less and Im sorry to be repetitive but I think we all know these things and we also all know shafts and fit etc. But plain and simple...it does seem Titleist lags a tad in too many reviews vs other clubs as for pure distance. Perhaps not enough to change your game but still I wonder why if that is indeed the case. If its any actual truth its a bit surprising to me is all. Its hard pressed to find distance comparos where they came out on top yet fairly easy to find ones they didn't. something about that doesn't sit quite right imo.