Tiger Thinks He's Still the Best

[JB]

I know nothing about the brands and the data you cite, but I'm happy to take your word for it as I'm sure it's true. On the other hand, there's the Tour as a whole, The Golf Channel, the network coverage, the prize money - all of which grew exponentially as an indisputable, direct result of TW. Just sayin'...

Here's an interesting tidbit from a couple years ago on TV ratings as just one example:

- what's a 55% increase in ratings for 4 hours Saturday and 4 hours Sunday on just one weekend worth to a network? Tens of Millions of dollars is the answer. Now multiply that by 20 events, plus the Thurs., Fri. rounds, plus the after-event coverage on TGC. Now multiply that by his 15 years on tour - starting to be a pretty big number.

He certainly got/gets his fair share. I'm not saying he's been used or anything, just that he more than earned his money. My two cents (okay, maybe 1.5 cents )

And I would love for you to point out to me where I said he did not bring the tour to the next level, or earn the money, or be partly responsible for the growth. Extremely curious.

 

[Flooder]

And I would love for you to point out to me where I said he did not bring the tour to the next level, or earn the money, or be partly responsible for the growth. Extremely curious.

Where did I say you didn't say those things? I wasn't making any assertion about your thoughts on the subject, simply discussing whether people got their money's worth out of the billion+ Tiger earned.

 

[Mustng5]

You clearly are missing some sales facts here. TW being number one made Nike Golf huh? Did it help? Of course,

I will copy and paste as you do with the snippets of what is said to prove my point. So from the simple fact of you saying that Nike being associated with Tiger helped them is enough. Because they are better off with him then without him. The world gave Tiger a pass and so did you at one point in time....but after the scandal and him not winning anymore, you had a change of heart? So after 13 years of being ok with his actions and being a fan of his as long as he was winning, what made you change? Because in your post you said "you were a fan". Tiger has been cursing and having his antics since his genesis on tour.

 

[Tmex]

God I think Sean Foley has ruined his swing.

I think Tiger needs the VR Pro Cavities. His ball striking isn't where it should be and needs the forgiveness. According to my observations.

Lol. I love it that he still says he has that confidence. Hopefully he truly believes it.

 

[JB]

I will copy and paste as you do with the snippets of what is said to prove my point. So from the simple fact of you saying that Nike being associated with Tiger helped them is enough. Because they are better off with him then without him. The world gave Tiger a pass and so did you at one point in time....but after the scandal and him not winning anymore, you had a change of heart? So after 13 years of being ok with his actions and being a fan of his as long as he was winning, what made you change? Because in your post you said "you were a fan". Tiger has been cursing and having his antics since his genesis on tour.

You clearly no NOTHING about me and obviously have not read much of my work on him. I was a fan of what he did for the game. I was a fan of his golf game. I was NEVER a fan and quite critical about his antics on the course (just like I am for anybody else - see Morgan P & Christie Kerr talk) and even less of a fan about his other antics. (but I will not go down that road here with his fans). Working in sports as long I have, I dont have favorites anymore and subjective views clearly are not liked when fandom plays roles.

 

[blugold]

Tiger does need to control his emotions, his tantrums are a stain on the game. Golf is designed to be the ultimate gentleman's sport, and when tiger is on the course acting like bob knight after bad call, it makes him look ridiculous and is really just embarressing to everyone involved.

I don't know if that is a good thing. I think part of the attraction to Tiger is that he doesn't look like a member of the old guard. His club sponser choices, his dress, and the way he plays the game makes him standout against the country club world of golf. And that makes him more appealing to younger fans and people who don't know the "gentleman" world of golf.

 

[Hawk]

God, I would have swore I read all of this before. Listen, it's cool to like Tiger. I actually like watching him play well and hope he can get back to form, but I don't know that defending his bad actions is a very rational way to think about it. I think it screams fandom and lack of objectivity. There's nothing good about slamming a club down on the ground or swearing on live TV. Whether you want to admit it or not, TW is a role model to children. With that comes responsibility. He's recognized it, but some of his die hard fans seem to have a problem with it. Golf isn't Pro Wrestling or The Jersey Shore.

 

[blugold]

I fully agree that he looks ridiculous at times. But isn't saying something like, "swearing and throwing clubs is bad" subjective?

 

[JB]

But isn't saying something like, "swearing and throwing clubs is bad" subjective?

Are you being serious?

 

[Hawk]

I fully agree that he looks ridiculous at times. But isn't saying something like, "swearing and throwing clubs is bad" subjective?

Sort of, but when the vast majority of society would find a behavior in poor taste, that argument goes right out the window. Is it ok to go to the mall and start swearing loudly and throwing your bags of clothes?

 

[Mustng5]

You clearly no NOTHING about me and obviously have not read much of my work on him. I was a fan of what he did for the game. I was a fan of his golf game. I was NEVER a fan and quite critical about his antics on the course (just like I am for anybody else - see Morgan P & Christie Kerr talk) and even less of a fan about his other antics. (but I will not go down that road here with his fans). Working in sports as long I have, I dont have favorites anymore and subjective views clearly are not liked when fandom plays roles.

Ok kool but everything being the same, Tiger is still the 5th best player in the world and still does alot for golf. I am not a fan of his off course antics, I have a mother and 2 sisters, would never want someone to mistreat them in that way. I condone that in no way. But i also believe in that people can be forgiven because God forgives us, because we will never be perfect individuals. But i understand you more now because of your last post. Good discussion.

 

[Hawk]

I mean I guess we can pretend that boorish behaviour is really ok with us if we want to excuse the actions of one golfer that we all love, but it just doesn't make much sense to me. I wouldn't let my kid act like that and doubt he'd let his.

 

[TC]

Lol @ this thread. There are those that continue to love/defend Tigger and those that are subjective. Good luck JB.

tapatalk: even available for lefties!

 

[Hawk]

For the record, I absolutely believe in second chances and have given Tiger the benefit of the doubt from the time he did his press conference at Sawgrass. I actually think he can still be a good man and I know there are many who doubt that. But, I'm not going to act like it's ok that he acts the fool on national TV.

 

[JB]

Ok kool but everything being the same, Tiger is still the 5th best player in the world and still does alot for golf. I am not a fan of his off course antics, I have a mother and 2 sisters, would never want someone to mistreat them in that way. I condone that in no way. But i also believe in that people can be forgiven because God forgives us, because we will never be perfect individuals. But i understand you more now because of your last post. Good discussion.

Forgiven? Sure. Loved and adored? Not always. Time heals wounds for many. Time is not needed for his die hard fans. Some of them say "i dont care about his other stuff, I just like great golf" (as long as its TW playing it). Some people have different thresholds with what they can tolerate. I have said it before and will again, while some thresholds might be lying and cheating and they cannot forgive, others might be murder or child molesting and they will not forgive. I dont think TW's actions were that of a violent criminal (and I would NEVER compare that), but many say "its only about his golf game" and to that I say, would you feel the same way if he had committed a violent crime? Of course not, so in the end it is nothing more than whatever threshold you as a human being feel is the cut off point.

 

[blugold]

Are you being serious?

I know that you think it is ridiculous, but yes I am being serious. There is no objective definition of "bad behavior".

Sort of, but when the vast majority of society would find a behavior in poor taste, that argument goes right out the window. Is it ok to go to the mall and start swearing loudly and throwing your bags of clothes?

I am not saying his behavior isn't bad. I am just saying that definiton of bad behavior is subjective.

 

[Mustng5]

Sort of, but when the vast majority of society would find a behavior in poor taste, that argument goes right out the window. Is it ok to go to the mall and start swearing loudly and throwing your bags of clothes?

Are we only talking about American society, because we are the most sensitive society in the world. We ban alot of magazines, videos, and commercials that are shown on regular network TV in other societies. I would also venture to say Tiger's up bringing has alot to do with the way he acts, its clear he and his dad shared one characteristic, so growing up watching his father and his army buddies slam clubs on the course and curse, maybe he was conditioned to believe this is acceptable behavior when performing poorly in golf, not justifying his actions, just coming up with some theories, Golf should do what every other sport does, make a rule against it and fine him when he breaks it, the more he breaks it, the more they fine him, then if that doesnt work....keep him from playing in some tournaments. But then again...I dont know if that would be a good idea from a business standpoint. IDK....

 

[Hawk]

I know that you think it is ridiculous, but yes I am being serious. There is no objective definition of "bad behavior".



I am not saying his behavior isn't bad. I am just saying that definiton of bad behavior is subjective.

We could have silly arguments all day, except I just have the time anymore. The vast majority of people in this country understand what is socially acceptable.

Are we only talking about American society, because we are the most sensitive society in the world. We ban alot of magazines, videos, and commercials that are shown on regular network TV in other societies. I would also venture to say Tiger's up bringing has alot to do with the way he acts, its clear he and his dad shared one characteristic, so growing up watching his father and his army buddies slam clubs on the course and curse, maybe he was conditioned to believe this is acceptable behavior when performing poorly in golf, not justifying his actions, just coming up with some theories, Golf should do what every other sport does, make a rule against it and fine him when he breaks it, the more he breaks it, the more they fine him, then if that doesnt work....keep him from playing in some tournaments. But then again...I dont know if that would be a good idea from a business standpoint. IDK....

Pretty sure that throwing tantrums is not acceptable anywhere. The rest is just silly. My stepfather acted the damn fool his entire life, but I'm not out there acting like him. Tiger's a grown man and can control himself if he wants to.

 

[Mustng5]

We could have silly arguments all day, except I just have the time anymore. The vast majority of people in this country understand what is socially acceptable.



Pretty sure that throwing tantrums is not acceptable anywhere. The rest is just silly. My stepfather acted the damn fool his entire life, but I'm not out there acting like him. Tiger's a grown man and can control himself if he wants to.

WOW, so your upbringing has nothing to do with you as a person? I guess all the studies, papers, and books on this matter should be thrown out the window. You know the ones that say if you grow up in an abusive home you're more likely to be abused or deem abuse to be ok. Or the ones that say if you grow up seeing people do drugs you are more likely to do drugs. Furthermore, the Bible says,"train up a child in the way that it should go and when he/she gets older they will not depart from that path". And if I were to get two people from different walks of life, you are telling me that they would agree on whats socially acceptable, the vast majortiy of us cant agree on anything in America, well except for that GAS is EXTREMELY TOO EXPENSIVE! Republicans, democrats, conservatives, liberals, independents, extrememists, feminsits, racists, etc.....Americans usually dont agree on most things. Not a Tiger lover, definitely not a die hard... I thought this was a forum to discuss things.....geesh.

 

[JB]

WOW, so your upbringing has nothing to do with you as a person? I guess all the studies, papers, and books on this matter should be thrown out the window. You know the ones that say if you grow up in an abusive home you're more likely to be abused or deem abuse to be ok. Or the ones that say if you grow up seeing people do drugs you are more likely to do drugs. Furthermore, the Bible says,"train up a child in the way that it should go and when he/she gets older they will not depart from that path". And if I were to get two people from different walks of life, you are telling me that they would agree on whats socially acceptable, the vast majortiy of us cant agree on anything in America, well except for that GAS is EXTREMELY TOO EXPENSIVE! Republicans, democrats, conservatives, liberals, independents, extrememists, feminsits, racists, etc.....Americans usually dont agree on most things. Not a Tiger lover, definitely not a die hard... I thought this was a forum to discuss things.....geesh.

3 things.

1. We do not bring politics and religion into the main forum. There is a separate section called the debate room for that.

2. More likely does not mean absolute.

3. I never saw Hawk say anything that upbringing does not play a role in someones life.

 

[Hawk]

Of course how you're brought up has something to do with your personality. I never said it didn't. His drive, confidence, etc all stem from his upbringing. What I said is that's a silly excuse for his behavior. He's a smart man and has the ability to make his own choices. If you want to pretend like his dad said too many bad words and that's why he acts like an idiot sometimes you are certainly welcome to, but it's just doesn't make sense. There is a big difference between throwing temper tantrums on the course and being a drug abuser/child abuser etc.

 

[Hawk]

Also, for the most part, socially acceptable behavior is very similar in different areas of the country. I've lived all over the country, in poor and rich neighborhoods, and acting out like a child in public wasn't ever something I saw readily accepted. Also, there is a big difference between what is acceptable in a bar vs on public TV and most people know what it is.

 

[Mustng5]

3 things.

1. We do not bring politics and religion into the main forum. There is a separate section called the debate room for that.

2. More likely does not mean absolute.

3. I never saw Hawk say anything that upbringing does not play a role in someones life.

He said the rest is just silly and he also implied that watching his stepfather act a dam fool growing up had no effect on him. I was using "facts" that show more people conform to what their parents do. I used the Bible as a fact of reference as a text not to pursade and the political references as a list of things that Americans dont agree on, I did not talk politics. and of course there are exceptions but for the notion that you dont determine what is socially acceptable from your parents is really confusing to me. If Tiger watched his dad do those things and then done those things in front of his dad and was never reprimanded by his father, a man who he admired and looked up to in every way, his best friend by his own words, that would only reinforce those on course behaviors as acceptable. Most people, learn right and wrong from their parents, so if your dad doesnt say what you're doing is wrong, the man who Tiger admired and listened to the most, then why would he care what anyone else thinks, besides the people who sign his checks, and those people obviously dont care how he acts, they just want him to win. They dont fine him, they havent set up any rules, they reinforce his behavior.

 

[JB]

He said the rest is just silly and he also implied that watching his stepfather act a dam fool growing up had no effect on him. I was using "facts" that show more people conform to what their parents do. I used the Bible as a fact of reference as a text not to pursade and the political references as a list of things that Americans dont agree on, I did not talk politics. and of course there are exceptions but for the notion that you dont determine what is socially acceptable from your parents is really confusing to me. If Tiger watched his dad do those things and then done those things in front of his dad and was never reprimanded by his father, a man who he admired and looked up to in every way, his best friend by his own words, that would only reinforce those on course behaviors as acceptable. Most people, learn right and wrong from their parents, so if your dad doesnt say what you're doing is wrong, the man who Tiger admired and listened to the most, then why would he care what anyone else thinks, besides the people who sign his checks, and those people obviously dont care how he acts, they just want him to win. They dont fine him, they havent set up any rules, they reinforce his behavior.

I dont care what the religion or bible talk was for, it is not allowed on THP outside of the debate room. For the record, not everybody uses the same bible.

If I watched my father beat people up and then got into fights and beat people up and dad never said it was bad, does that make it socially acceptable? That makes absolutely no sense to me. Learning from your peers and parents is a character trait that we all do, however just because it is done does not mean it is okay. The part that I find the best about this....IS THAT THE MAN HIMSELF SAID ITS NOT!

 

[Hawk]

Your whole argument doesn't make any sense. Tiger himself said that he knew he was wrong when he acted like that. He acknowledges it isn't acceptable behavior.