do I really nead the low lofts of the new irons of today?

rollin · Aug 30, 2012

Sory up front for the long post.
I am looking into new clubs and recently had 1st ever club fitting. Before my question about newer irons I'd like to tell a bit about my golfing so you better to understand my point of view and or better know how to answer, comment or advise about what it is i ask.

5 or 6 years ago playing bit more often i started shooting mid 80's. 85 to be exact on 2 ocassions. If not in the upper 80's then would hang around the 90 mark. All in all game was improving but then couldn't get out there much since and here I am back mostly in the mid/upper90's again. This year however I've been able to get out a bit more and have two 90's and some low 90's. Of course hoping to improve back into the 80's again

My problem is not legnth, I'm a fairly long hitter. 8 iron @ 150, Can drive 270 to 280 with the ocassional 300yarder when given perfect favorable conditions and I can strike balls decently. My biggest problem is incosistancy due to not enough golf and/or practice which will develope muscle memory over repititions only. I usually know what I did wrong when hitting poorly. And it will usually be things like " I picked up my head and walked out on that" or "darn, i didn't roll my hands over on that one" or maybe "I hit down too early on that one" etc... you all get the point.

Any way, without every detail, my club fitting and discussions with the fitter went something like this. Driver swing speed 105, 5 iron swing 94, Hits down on the ball well, good release, smooth tempo, gets the ball up, then of course there was lie angle, club legnth, and etc.... He commented on my swing being one of the better swings vs most people who come to see him through the years. All said and done, the biggest change and or improvement for me with new clubs would be the recomendation of different lie angles vs what i am currently using.

With all that said he also recomends a 5 iron loft of 24 degrees and of course all the other irons to follow suit up and down the scale.. My existing 10 year old irons has what he said was a (for my 5 iron) a 29 degree loft. Here is my problem/question with this and about new G.I. irons of today whch are now incorporating such lower lofts. Why do I nead to hit any futher than what I already do?. I certainly am not struggling for distance with any club. I use my 6 at 180 and 5 at 190 and thats with the older more upright lofts (29) on my 5. Why would I nead a lower loft?

Manufacturers are making claims that they all have the longest irons. what really did was put a 6 iron loft on what use to be a seven iron and still even more than that. Of course the shaft will be shorter since it is now a seven but even the shafts are being made longer which IMO are too long for many to swing well (unless your fit) but that's another subject.

The point is that if/when i get new clubs, they will be some sort of G.I. clubs which now seem to most all be designed with the lower lofts. Why do i have to hit my PW more than the 130 I currently do? Will I not then also be comming into a green at a lower angle causing more roll we usually don't want? Then what also do I do between my PW and AW? I already have a big gap between my two existing clubs now. If a new lower lofted PW for me ends up being from 140, then anytime I may be at about the 120 to 130 mark, I'll have to swing easy, choke up, or alter my PW swing to not hit it as far. Just doesn't seem like any advantages to this newer low lofted irons situation for me. They seem to assume all high handicappers are all looking for distance but that is not the case at all. I do nead G.I. irons due to the forgiveness with my inconsistant swings but why be forced to legnthen my shots? And why would the fitter even have recommended that too me? Or perhaps he just going with the times and knows most new irons sre being made this way now.

Anyway, any help to get me to understand the advantage it would be to me and my game please explain. because i just don't know if this may end up being a disadvantage for me instead. hope i am wrong.

THANKS in advance

Mulligan9111 · Aug 30, 2012

One thing could possibly be the launch conditions of GI irons versus older irons. GI irons from my understanding are suppose to be a lot easier to get the ball airborn, which generally means a lower COG.

I'm not an expert though, it's just a thought.

asca2 · Aug 30, 2012

I don't think the fitter recommended the irons for you based on the fact that you need extra length; I think he recommended them to you because they are most beneficial for your swing and they so happen to have those lofts. In my opinion it comes down to comfort. If you are not comfortable with the new lofts, you should definitely mention that to the fitter who will take that into consideration when recommending certain clubs for you.

Jskittle · Aug 30, 2012

We're in the same boat. I hit 8i around 155 or so. I currently play Burner 2.0's with PX 6.0 Flighted. While I did see some distance gain with these irons, The shot is more of a "boring" trajectory, which holds its line well, especially in the wind. With the added distance, I now carry 5-AW (50 deg) and a 52, 56 and 60 in wedges. Gives me more options in the 150 and in range which is where I hit the most shots.

blugold · Aug 30, 2012

I guess I don't understand the problem with bitting the ball farther. There are a lot of other facots that will go into distance than loft. Length, shaft, lie, weight ect. Also, why go get a fitting only to dispute the fitting. Sounds like a good fitting that should lower scores for you.

You must also have some perfect launch conditions to hit a 300 yard drive with a 105 swing speed. That's my swing sped and I am 30 yards short of your average.

JB · Aug 30, 2012

Do you need them? No. And there are iron sets by every brand that have lofts that suit anybody.
Lots of things have changed in the last decade and one of the biggest was maneuvering weight around the head to alter ball flight along with better overall shaft technology.
In doing so, a manufacturer can give you the ball flight, launch and other characteristics of a 7 iron in a 5 & 6 iron loft. More distance without changing ball flight means a lot of different things.

Damaikis · Aug 30, 2012

JB said:
Do you need them? No. And there are iron sets by every brand that have lofts that suit anybody.
Lots of things have changed in the last decade and one of the biggest was maneuvering weight around the head to alter ball flight along with better overall shaft technology.
In doing so, a manufacturer can give you the ball flight, launch and other characteristics of a 7 iron in a 5 & 6 iron loft. More distance without changing ball flight means a lot of different things.

This is pretty much it. If you can hit the clubs with jacked up lofts just as easily, why not? More distance isn't a bad thing.

rollin · Aug 30, 2012

blugold said:
I guess I don't understand the problem with bitting the ball farther. There are a lot of other facots that will go into distance than loft. Length, shaft, lie, weight ect. Also, why go get a fitting only to dispute the fitting. Sounds like a good fitting that should lower scores for you.

You must also have some perfect launch conditions to hit a 300 yard drive with a 105 swing speed. That's my swing sped and I am 30 yards short of your average.

i did say that i drive 270 to 280 so that puts me in the same boat as you for the 30 yrd difference. Have done it a number of times through the years though. Probably perfect sweet spot, a great bounce and roll, maybe a little wind help etc...loft of club at impact or for any number of reasons.

as far as the fitting, i am not disputing it at all, i am meerly trying to better understand what benefit or advantage the subjuct discussed will do for me vs if it could be a disadvantage. Before i buy new clubs I just want be sure I understand why i buy what i end up with. Many other factors at the fitting all seem logical and made sense but just that one specific factor got me thinking alot about it and just may be possible that hitting further is not always so necessary etc..

Schweitzer_07 · Aug 30, 2012

blugold said:
I guess I don't understand the problem with bitting the ball farther. There are a lot of other facots that will go into distance than loft. Length, shaft, lie, weight ect. Also, why go get a fitting only to dispute the fitting. Sounds like a good fitting that should lower scores for you.

You must also have some perfect launch conditions to hit a 300 yard drive with a 105 swing speed. That's my swing sped and I am 30 yards short of your average.

I'm at the 113-116 area and can't consistently reach 300...

Chunkylover77 · Aug 30, 2012

I don't think you need the modern lofted irons to play. I think you need to like the irons you play with though. The rest of the post has been covered ad nauseum. The lofts have gotten stronger but other changes have made the ball flight stay the same. You should see the same roll out. I really see no reason to not embrace the added distance of modern designs. JMO though

blugold · Aug 30, 2012

rollin said:
i did say that i drive 270 to 280 so that puts me in the same boat as you for the 30 yrd difference. Have done it a number of times through the years though. Probably perfect sweet spot, a great bounce and roll, maybe a little wind help etc...loft of club at impact or for any number of reasons.

I'm saying I'm 30 yards shorter than your 280. I would like to think I have decent launch conditions. From the launch monitors I've been on have give me 14* launch, 2750 rpm of spin, and a ptr of 1.4+. If you're consistently hitting it 270-280 with a 105 swing speed, then you are insanely perfect.

lcsmrtn · Aug 30, 2012

Jskittle said:
We're in the same boat. I hit 8i around 155 or so. I currently play Burner 2.0's with PX 6.0 Flighted. While I did see some distance gain with these irons, The shot is more of a "boring" trajectory, which holds its line well, especially in the wind. With the added distance, I now carry 5-AW (50 deg) and a 52, 56 and 60 in wedges. Gives me more options in the 150 and in range which is where I hit the most shots.

I was going to reply, but this is almost my exact same setup. I just hit a touch further 160-165 8i. It's nice being able to hit wedges and 9i anywhere within 150 and in. GI help you on mishits, that's where they shine. Not just to make you hit further.

Chunkylover77 · Aug 30, 2012

Why do these threads always end up in a questioning of distance claims?

blugold · Aug 30, 2012

Chunkylover77 said:
Why do these threads always end up in a questioning of distance claims?

I wasn't questioning anything. I was impressed. He just had a fitting so I am assuming that all the numbers were right. I wish I had those results.

Trout Bum · Aug 30, 2012

You know really, if you don't want the additional distance then go with a set that's got the game improvement characteristics you're looking for but with more traditional lofts. There are still companies that go in that direction, but try a bunch of different brands and pick the one you love.

h0ss66 · Aug 30, 2012

If you want a lot of forgiveness, then you need lower lofted irons otherwise the ball will launch way too high.

StLCardsFan · Aug 30, 2012

IMO it was all just a marketing ploy a few years ago. Someone would say "look here, you can hit our 6-iron longer than the 6-iron from 10 years ago" No kidding, 2-3 more degrees of loft, longer shaft, I should hope so. It just depends on your way of thinking about the clubs. If you reverse the thinking and tell yourself you hit the 38º club 150 yards what does it matter if it says 8-iron or 9-iron? The GI clubs today are probably weighted better and give you a better chance to hit a good shot so it might be beneficial to try new clubs. I wouldn't get hung up on the loft issue though. Instead of buying a set of 4-PW like we did 10-15 years ago, you just end up buying a 5-GW and it is basically the same thing, they just say something different on the bottom.

C-Mac13 · Aug 30, 2012

I’m right there with you. I was hesitant in going with the RBZ for this same reason. But after much thought and testing I went for it. I can’t speak to the other clubs but the RBZ PW loft didn’t change from my old set (2005 OS RAC). It’s actually the same at 45*. IIRC a lot of the new sets are like this. The loft changes are in the longer clubs. The RBZ 5i is the same loft as my OS 4i. With my new set up I was able to pick up one more wedge for more short game options. It works for me.

Good luck.

rollin · Aug 30, 2012

blugold said:
I'm saying I'm 30 yards shorter than your 280. I would like to think I have decent launch conditions. From the launch monitors I've been on have give me 14* launch, 2750 rpm of spin, and a ptr of 1.4+. If you're consistently hitting it 270-280 with a 105 swing speed, then you are insanely perfect.

i should rephrase by saying that on the days I am striking the ball well and playing my better golf game or on the days where my tee shots are working for me.(and sometimes thats all that may work for me that day) On those days my tee shots will often end up with several drives that get out there that far. Not every one but quite a few. Just last week I couldn't chip or put for nothing but was driving really well and had more than a few tee shots that were in that range. One of those I can specifically remember was 278 into a slightly uphill fairway.
I dont want to get into an argument here about how far i can drive and i didnt come here to brag or BS anybody. I dont have a big ego nor do i let my ego dictate what i nead to say and do. Heck, i am still trying to get back into the 80's. I could care less about bragging to anyone or make false statements to anyone. it is what it is. I have no desire or nead to do ither. It is what it is and if you don't believe me I dont care nor should I have to explain. Perhaps i could have been a bit more specific about "only when hitting well on that day" but I would like to just get back to the subject.

By the way i have a 10 year old more compact 400cc driver which is probably not as forgiving as a new club and a 460cc heads of today but perhaps by the same token when hit sweat maybe puts more on the ball. i just dont know if that is why.

blugold · Aug 30, 2012

rollin said:
i should rephrase by saying that on the days I am striking the ball well and playing my better golf game or on the days where my tee shots are working for me.(and sometimes thats all that may work for me that day) On those days my tee shots will often end up with several drives that get out there that far. Not every one but quite a few. Just last week I couldn't chip or put for nothing but was driving really well and had more than a few tee shots that were in that range. One of those I can specifically remember was 278 into a slightly uphill fairway.
I dont want to get into an argument here about how far i can drive and i didnt come here to brag or BS anybody. I dont have a big ego nor do i let my ego dictate what i nead to say and do. Heck, i am still trying to get back into the 80's. I could care less about bragging to anyone or make false statements to anyone. it is what it is. I have no desire or nead to do ither. It is what it is and if you don't believe me I dont care nor should I have to explain. Perhaps i could have been a bit more specific about "only when hitting well on that day" but I would like to just get back to the subject.

No need to apologize. I wasn't calling you out. It have came across that way, but I wasn't.

Back on topic, don't worry about the lofts.

JB · Aug 30, 2012

rollin,
Have you thought about coming out to the Tour Van Stop in your neck of the woods in a couple of weeks. Give you a chance to try out quite a bit of irons and at the same time possibly even take a few on the course to give a real test to.

rollin · Aug 30, 2012

JB said:
rollin,
Have you thought about coming out to the Tour Van Stop in your neck of the woods in a couple of weeks. Give you a chance to try out quite a bit of irons and at the same time possibly even take a few on the course to give a real test to.

hey, thats great, would certainly look into that and where, when etc.. to see if i can get to go to it.

rollin · Aug 30, 2012

blugold said:
No need to apologize. I wasn't calling you out. It have came across that way, but I wasn't.

Back on topic, don't worry about the lofts.

Ok no problem here as well. Sometimes comunicating in written words can offset the true meanings and feelings of the writers intent.