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Just heard the same thing recently. However I was told that it was not by someone there. I am starting to believe something was drawn up sometime in the last 24 hours and submitted.
LPGA Players Meet to Discuss Bivens
dynarider
insert witty saying here
Michelle Wie is still a young kid with a lot of growing up to do & has the potential to be a great golfer. Hopefully she has put the foolishness of the past couple years behind her. And any of us would have probably done the same thing if we were in her shoes. It's tough to be that young & have all the hype & hopes placed on you.
Diane
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Harry Longshanks
ILikeBigPutts&ICannotLie
I think I've been fairly clear that I think Bivens is moving the LPGA in the right direction and that what the ladies' tour is going through right now is a combination of the bad economy and the inevitable pains of change.
Anytime you make major changes, it's going to hurt. Sponsors will complain about increased fees, venues will whine about dates, and everyone will blame the person proposing the changes. But the fact of the matter is that the LPGA needed the changes. The LPGA and its players were getting the short end of the stick under the former system. The purses were smaller, there was no retirement system to speak of, and the promotion of the tour was nonexistent. Meanwhile, the large corporate sponsors were getting a relative bargain for the advertising they received.
I look at the current situation like losing weight/getting in shape - sure, it sucks and it's going to hurt eating right and working out, but the result will be worth it.
That is, of course, unless your personal trainer works you so hard that you have a heart attack.
And that is the real question - how much is too much in this economic climate? Personally, I don't think the changes made by Bivens, in and of themselves, are too far. Sponsors, like just about everyone else in the world, are going to point the finger of blame at someone other than themselves. Sometimes the finger points at the economy, but just as often it gets pointed at Bivens. But I still believe she is moving the LPGA in the right direction (promoting the players and the LPGA, signing a long-term broadcast deal with GC, acquiring the Futures Tour, etc).
If Bivens is guilty of anything, it is of being too inflexible. From the reports, she has been unwilling to budge on her terms. The problem for fans is that, while the sponsors and tournaments yell and scream about Bivens' refusal to negotiate, Bivens and the LPGA have remained silent - and that is as it should be. Nothing would do more damage to the future of the LPGA than if it were to engage in a war of words with the entities that fund it - whether or not those entities have misrepresented the facts and/or deserve criticism. And so, we get only one side of the argument.
Is Bivens pushing to hard for the current environment? I don't know. I'm not on the inside at the LPGA and so I don't feel like I have enough information to make that call.
But I do know that I can't think of another women's sport that has it's own broadcast contract. And I can't think of another women's sport that is on TV more than women's golf. Without question, Carolyn Bivens has made that possible is spite of the current economy. And I think it would be a mistake to abandon her goals right now. In any other economy, I think she would be a raging success.
But I can also liken the situation to an underperforming baseball term ravaged by injuries. If the team has lost faith in the manager, and blames the manager rather than the number of names on the disabled list, sometimes a change needs to be made solely for the sake of a change. Attitude can make a difference.
Anytime you make major changes, it's going to hurt. Sponsors will complain about increased fees, venues will whine about dates, and everyone will blame the person proposing the changes. But the fact of the matter is that the LPGA needed the changes. The LPGA and its players were getting the short end of the stick under the former system. The purses were smaller, there was no retirement system to speak of, and the promotion of the tour was nonexistent. Meanwhile, the large corporate sponsors were getting a relative bargain for the advertising they received.
I look at the current situation like losing weight/getting in shape - sure, it sucks and it's going to hurt eating right and working out, but the result will be worth it.
That is, of course, unless your personal trainer works you so hard that you have a heart attack.
And that is the real question - how much is too much in this economic climate? Personally, I don't think the changes made by Bivens, in and of themselves, are too far. Sponsors, like just about everyone else in the world, are going to point the finger of blame at someone other than themselves. Sometimes the finger points at the economy, but just as often it gets pointed at Bivens. But I still believe she is moving the LPGA in the right direction (promoting the players and the LPGA, signing a long-term broadcast deal with GC, acquiring the Futures Tour, etc).
If Bivens is guilty of anything, it is of being too inflexible. From the reports, she has been unwilling to budge on her terms. The problem for fans is that, while the sponsors and tournaments yell and scream about Bivens' refusal to negotiate, Bivens and the LPGA have remained silent - and that is as it should be. Nothing would do more damage to the future of the LPGA than if it were to engage in a war of words with the entities that fund it - whether or not those entities have misrepresented the facts and/or deserve criticism. And so, we get only one side of the argument.
Is Bivens pushing to hard for the current environment? I don't know. I'm not on the inside at the LPGA and so I don't feel like I have enough information to make that call.
But I do know that I can't think of another women's sport that has it's own broadcast contract. And I can't think of another women's sport that is on TV more than women's golf. Without question, Carolyn Bivens has made that possible is spite of the current economy. And I think it would be a mistake to abandon her goals right now. In any other economy, I think she would be a raging success.
But I can also liken the situation to an underperforming baseball term ravaged by injuries. If the team has lost faith in the manager, and blames the manager rather than the number of names on the disabled list, sometimes a change needs to be made solely for the sake of a change. Attitude can make a difference.
mchepp
Looking forward to Spring
Harry,
I am not sure if the changes are good or not. I think your right, time will be the judge of that. I do think though that if the LPGA is going to make this change and get rid of the sponsors that have been sponsoring the events like Corning, Wegmans, McDonalds etc they had better have some sort of back up plan. I hope they do and we just can't see it now.
Maybe your right the sponsors I mentioned had it too good, but now what?
I am not sure if the changes are good or not. I think your right, time will be the judge of that. I do think though that if the LPGA is going to make this change and get rid of the sponsors that have been sponsoring the events like Corning, Wegmans, McDonalds etc they had better have some sort of back up plan. I hope they do and we just can't see it now.
Maybe your right the sponsors I mentioned had it too good, but now what?
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Harry,
I respect your thoughts, however I do disagree. Sure they are one of the most televised womens leagues. However the WNBA has had their own contract in the past, and womens tennis still gets much higher ratings.
However what we have here is a league that has a TV contract but they may not have any games to be shown live. They all seem to be moving global so non-live TV leaves TGC with late night broadcasts of fields from foreign lands. But I look at it like this. Bud Selig introduced us to some great things in his day as commish. The Wild card for example. But he will go down as a joke of a commissioner by most of the media and fans.
Bivens got the contract right with TGC. However just about everything else has backfired and we can only blame so much on the economy. The economy did not tell her to come up with the language rule. The economy did not tell her to say "tweet during rounds" (later taken back as misquoted), and the economy is not killing every single other sport going on around her. In fact many sports are thriving right now especially in ratings due to people staying in more, yet the LPGA ratings are at close to an all time low. Part of that has to be based on poor marketing.
In the end, she can do some good for the game somewhere. But in this roll, my opinion is, that she is using the economy as an excuse for poor execution.
I respect your thoughts, however I do disagree. Sure they are one of the most televised womens leagues. However the WNBA has had their own contract in the past, and womens tennis still gets much higher ratings.
However what we have here is a league that has a TV contract but they may not have any games to be shown live. They all seem to be moving global so non-live TV leaves TGC with late night broadcasts of fields from foreign lands. But I look at it like this. Bud Selig introduced us to some great things in his day as commish. The Wild card for example. But he will go down as a joke of a commissioner by most of the media and fans.
Bivens got the contract right with TGC. However just about everything else has backfired and we can only blame so much on the economy. The economy did not tell her to come up with the language rule. The economy did not tell her to say "tweet during rounds" (later taken back as misquoted), and the economy is not killing every single other sport going on around her. In fact many sports are thriving right now especially in ratings due to people staying in more, yet the LPGA ratings are at close to an all time low. Part of that has to be based on poor marketing.
In the end, she can do some good for the game somewhere. But in this roll, my opinion is, that she is using the economy as an excuse for poor execution.
BigLeftyinAZ
Well-known member
Report: Players urge Bivens to resign
Associated Press
ORLANDO, Fla. -- A meeting last week of more than a dozen players has resulted in a letter sent to the LPGA Tour's board urging that commissioner Carolyn Bivens resign, according to a published report.
Golfweek Magazine reported Monday that key players stated in the letter the LPGA Tour's woes cannot be blamed on a poor economy, and they said the tour should find a new leader to rebuild relationships with longtime sponsors.
The magazine cited a player who had received a copy of the letter.
Among those at the meeting last week in Toledo, Ohio, were Lorena Ochoa, Paula Creamer, Cristie Kerr, Morgan Pressel and Natalie Gulbis, among the most prominent players in women's golf.
Golfweek said players in favor of Bivens' resignation attached their names, although it didn't say how many signed it. Bivens is a member of the board, which has received the letter.
LPGA Tour spokesman David Higdon said Bivens would not be available to comment.
"This week we are focused on the U.S. Open and it's not an appropriate time to discuss internal LPGA matters," Higdon said. "We all care deeply about the tour and are working hard for its long-term success."
The meeting came two days after the LPGA Tour lost another tournament when the Kapalua LPGA Classic asked for a year off to find a title sponsor. Instead, the LPGA said it would use all legal remedies to hold Kapalua to the remaining four years of its contract.
The tour has left two stops -- Rochester, N.Y., and Toledo -- uncertain if the contracts will be renewed for next year, and it has already lost the popular Corning Classic. Also up in the air is the Michelob Ultra Championship in Virginia.
The LPGA has lost seven tournaments since 2007, including all three events staged in Hawaii.
Seoul Broadcasting Systems was offended when Bivens announced during the SBS Open in Hawaii that it had a new television contract with another Korean network. That ended SBS' sponsorship, and it then signed a 10-year with the PGA Tour to sponsor the season-opening tournament at Kapalua, won this year by Geoff Ogilvy.
The U.S. Women's Open, which is not run by the LPGA Tour, is being played this week outside Philadelphia. After that, the LPGA Tour will not have another tournament in the United States until the last week in August.
Golfweek reported that at a player meeting last month at the State Farm Classic, players were told 10 contracts with title sponsors had been signed for 2010.
"We're getting to the point where we don't know who to believe, which is hard," Katherine Hull told the magazine. "When tournaments that have been very loyal to us start withdrawing, that's really a red flag to me."
Bivens, who took over for Ty Votaw in 2005, has two years remaining on her contract.
Associated Press
ORLANDO, Fla. -- A meeting last week of more than a dozen players has resulted in a letter sent to the LPGA Tour's board urging that commissioner Carolyn Bivens resign, according to a published report.
Golfweek Magazine reported Monday that key players stated in the letter the LPGA Tour's woes cannot be blamed on a poor economy, and they said the tour should find a new leader to rebuild relationships with longtime sponsors.
The magazine cited a player who had received a copy of the letter.
Among those at the meeting last week in Toledo, Ohio, were Lorena Ochoa, Paula Creamer, Cristie Kerr, Morgan Pressel and Natalie Gulbis, among the most prominent players in women's golf.
Golfweek said players in favor of Bivens' resignation attached their names, although it didn't say how many signed it. Bivens is a member of the board, which has received the letter.
LPGA Tour spokesman David Higdon said Bivens would not be available to comment.
"This week we are focused on the U.S. Open and it's not an appropriate time to discuss internal LPGA matters," Higdon said. "We all care deeply about the tour and are working hard for its long-term success."
The meeting came two days after the LPGA Tour lost another tournament when the Kapalua LPGA Classic asked for a year off to find a title sponsor. Instead, the LPGA said it would use all legal remedies to hold Kapalua to the remaining four years of its contract.
The tour has left two stops -- Rochester, N.Y., and Toledo -- uncertain if the contracts will be renewed for next year, and it has already lost the popular Corning Classic. Also up in the air is the Michelob Ultra Championship in Virginia.
The LPGA has lost seven tournaments since 2007, including all three events staged in Hawaii.
Seoul Broadcasting Systems was offended when Bivens announced during the SBS Open in Hawaii that it had a new television contract with another Korean network. That ended SBS' sponsorship, and it then signed a 10-year with the PGA Tour to sponsor the season-opening tournament at Kapalua, won this year by Geoff Ogilvy.
The U.S. Women's Open, which is not run by the LPGA Tour, is being played this week outside Philadelphia. After that, the LPGA Tour will not have another tournament in the United States until the last week in August.
Golfweek reported that at a player meeting last month at the State Farm Classic, players were told 10 contracts with title sponsors had been signed for 2010.
"We're getting to the point where we don't know who to believe, which is hard," Katherine Hull told the magazine. "When tournaments that have been very loyal to us start withdrawing, that's really a red flag to me."
Bivens, who took over for Ty Votaw in 2005, has two years remaining on her contract.
Ok I am late to this discussion and there are two different discussions so I will comment on both:
Bviens and the LPGA
I to some degree agree with Harry. I do think the LPGA was getting shafted in most of their contracts. I do think they needed to be getting more from sponsors and TV deals. However, I don't think Biven's is going about that the correct way when they are losing so many tournaments. She needs to accept the current state of the economy and the product that she is selling (which I of course think is fantastic, but unfortunately the rest of the world hasn't found that out yet) and skew what she is asking sponsors to take on accordingly. How many tournaments do they have to lose before she admits she was wrong? The TV contract with TGC was great, but I have a feeling it wasn't the hardest negotiations, they wanted the product.
Michelle Wie:
I am actually, like JB, a newly turned Wie fan this season. In the past I thought she (ie: her parents) made the mistake of not letting her dominate the juniors so she could learn to close out a tournament and win. I don't feel it was a smart move to play against the men so early in her career. If after she dominates the LPGA she wants to try a PGA event, like Annika, go for it. But it was too early and I think it hurt her. However, now that she has gone to Q school, and the fans of the LPGA have gotten the chance to know her and see her play well (and she has played well) I am a fan. I am rooting for Michelle Wie. I think she is great for the tour because of all that hype and as a fan of the LPGA I can only hope that she lives up to the hype so she can deliver more fans to this tour.
Bviens and the LPGA
I to some degree agree with Harry. I do think the LPGA was getting shafted in most of their contracts. I do think they needed to be getting more from sponsors and TV deals. However, I don't think Biven's is going about that the correct way when they are losing so many tournaments. She needs to accept the current state of the economy and the product that she is selling (which I of course think is fantastic, but unfortunately the rest of the world hasn't found that out yet) and skew what she is asking sponsors to take on accordingly. How many tournaments do they have to lose before she admits she was wrong? The TV contract with TGC was great, but I have a feeling it wasn't the hardest negotiations, they wanted the product.
Michelle Wie:
I am actually, like JB, a newly turned Wie fan this season. In the past I thought she (ie: her parents) made the mistake of not letting her dominate the juniors so she could learn to close out a tournament and win. I don't feel it was a smart move to play against the men so early in her career. If after she dominates the LPGA she wants to try a PGA event, like Annika, go for it. But it was too early and I think it hurt her. However, now that she has gone to Q school, and the fans of the LPGA have gotten the chance to know her and see her play well (and she has played well) I am a fan. I am rooting for Michelle Wie. I think she is great for the tour because of all that hype and as a fan of the LPGA I can only hope that she lives up to the hype so she can deliver more fans to this tour.
C-Tech
New member
As an outsider who observes the LPGA from a distance and with only passing interest, it seems to be that almost everything Bivens has done publicly has been a political and marketing nightmare. If I were on the Marketing Staff, I would have her muzzled anytime she was going to appear in public. Again, only observing from a distance, it seems everything she has done has turned out like the "speak English" fiasco.
She may be a fantastic negotiator and have a heart of gold, but her public personna is just awful and I believe has drug down the public's opinion of the whole tour.
Sure, marketing a mostly Asian product in the US market is a problem, but she knew what she was getting into and hasn't developed any strategy to deal with the problem other than try to move the tour to Asia. I don't think that is a good long term strategy for the tour. Unfortunately, their is not a female Tiger looming on the horizon to make the tour more attractive for sponsorship and save her behind.
She may be a fantastic negotiator and have a heart of gold, but her public personna is just awful and I believe has drug down the public's opinion of the whole tour.
Sure, marketing a mostly Asian product in the US market is a problem, but she knew what she was getting into and hasn't developed any strategy to deal with the problem other than try to move the tour to Asia. I don't think that is a good long term strategy for the tour. Unfortunately, their is not a female Tiger looming on the horizon to make the tour more attractive for sponsorship and save her behind.
worst_shot_ever
I leave big divots
dazu44
New member
Bivens dismiss
Bivens dismiss
I believe a change is needed, once respect or loyalty has been lost it is very difficult to regain it. Unless something drastic happens.
I believe this has happen to Bivens. But it is not all her fault, look at your own viewing characteristics, if they are on same time:
1) men's PGA vs. LPGA
2) Nationwide vs. LPGA
3) Champions Tour vs. LPGA
That's just in golf what happens if you add other sports or events going on, golf without Tiger is low on ratings, the LPGA, unless it is a major or the Solheim Cup, is extremely low.
I can see the decline in younger girls, I coached highschool golf for ten years in the Philadelphia area. In 1999 I had 7 girls on the team, from 2000 to 2006 I had 12 to 15 girls on the team. In 2008 I had 8 girls, and this year the new coach may have 5.
There is a decline, the product is suffering, and Annika retiring didn't help either. The Annika vs. Lorena duel would have been better for golf and the LPGA. I don't know the answer or if there is one, it just maybe something that the LPGA needs to ride out like all of us.
JT
Bivens dismiss
I believe a change is needed, once respect or loyalty has been lost it is very difficult to regain it. Unless something drastic happens.
I believe this has happen to Bivens. But it is not all her fault, look at your own viewing characteristics, if they are on same time:
1) men's PGA vs. LPGA
2) Nationwide vs. LPGA
3) Champions Tour vs. LPGA
That's just in golf what happens if you add other sports or events going on, golf without Tiger is low on ratings, the LPGA, unless it is a major or the Solheim Cup, is extremely low.
I can see the decline in younger girls, I coached highschool golf for ten years in the Philadelphia area. In 1999 I had 7 girls on the team, from 2000 to 2006 I had 12 to 15 girls on the team. In 2008 I had 8 girls, and this year the new coach may have 5.
There is a decline, the product is suffering, and Annika retiring didn't help either. The Annika vs. Lorena duel would have been better for golf and the LPGA. I don't know the answer or if there is one, it just maybe something that the LPGA needs to ride out like all of us.
JT
Harry Longshanks
ILikeBigPutts&ICannotLie
Suzann Pettersen Confirms She Signed "The Letter"
Suzann Pettersen Confirms She Signed "The Letter"
Golf | Pettersen: Bivens should go
Suzann Pettersen Confirms She Signed "The Letter"
Golf | Pettersen: Bivens should go
ClairefromClare
Give 'em Helen!
That makes a lot of sense to me.
Harry Longshanks
ILikeBigPutts&ICannotLie
My problem is that no one seems to know what the real problem is. Is Bivens refusing to concede anything, or are the tournaments unable/unwilling to give anything. If the tournaments and sponsors are just being stubborn (or using the economy as an excuse) because they want to continue under the old business model, then I say "to heck with them."
And, with the exception of Juli Inkster, I'm not too impressed with the names rumored to have been at the meeting and (possibly) signed the letter. Many of them are very young and may be acting on emotion rather than logic or factual information. (Remember student protests in HS and college where the protesters were upset but had no real understanding of the issues?) How many of them took an active role in LPGA business matter? How many of them even bothered to show up for meetings? There is a certain "mob mentality" going on right now with regard to Bivens and I don't think anyone who is making a lot of noise really has all of the information.
Before they cast out the current administration, the LPGA members better have a very clear understanding of the current situation and a very defined objective for what's next. And they better have someone with a plan and the clout ready to assume the reins.
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- #40
Harry,
I actually agree with everything you say. However if someone like Inkster was there, I assume some education was going on. Plus, these young girls are the future of the sport and may have the most to lose. But the facts do not lie that under the current administration this tour has gone only backwards.
I actually agree with everything you say. However if someone like Inkster was there, I assume some education was going on. Plus, these young girls are the future of the sport and may have the most to lose. But the facts do not lie that under the current administration this tour has gone only backwards.
ClairefromClare
Give 'em Helen!
That Christina Kim wasn't there says a lot.
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- #42
She is part of the board of directors. I am not sure she can be a part of that stuff.
Harry Longshanks
ILikeBigPutts&ICannotLie
That didn't stop Juli Inkster.
And the article posted earlier had CK making a somewhat supportive statement about Bivens:
I would be interested in hearing Natalie Gulbis's opinion. She still strikes me as one of the most measured and business savvy women in sports.
And the article posted earlier had CK making a somewhat supportive statement about Bivens:
I would be interested in hearing Natalie Gulbis's opinion. She still strikes me as one of the most measured and business savvy women in sports.
Rancho_Golfer
New member
I do not think the LPGA can afford to say "to heck with them" right now. Not too long ago, they were playing 30 something tournaments a year. They lost a few to the economy like Ginn and Stanford, and now Kapalua, but the rumor was Corning was willing to talk, but the LPGA (Bivens) wasn't. Wegmans's doesn't have a contract, neither does the Jamie Farr. The Michelob tournament is questionable too. That's 4 tournaments right there. Unless Michelle Wie catches fire and attracts Tiger like numbers, they don't have a strong enough product to stand up to the tournaments with.
The Jamie Farr was willing to increase the purse from 1.4M to 1.5M, but the LPGA wanted 2M. The tournament director stormed out of the meeting. This is according to a post in the Golfweek forums here.
This year there are around 22 full field events, with 14 being in the US. 2 of those events will not be played next year, how many more are questionable and a major does not even have a sponsor. If you've already lost 5 tournaments since 2008, shouldn't you be making sure the rest will be there to grow your product?
Last edited:
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- #45
The Jamie Farr thing is a little different than that. They were willing to increase the purse. Even higher than 1.5 we are being told. However Bivens wanted 2 and would not budge. Jamie going on TV during the tourny to say "lets talk it out and negotiate" in some ways was the telling sign that the negotiations have failed and the LPGA would not budge. It has been said that people close to Bivens have told her that this is certainly one tourny you do not want to lose with this tactic, but it did nothing.
I am not putting this solely on Bivens though. I think the LPGA has other issues as well, like the robotic golf we have been seeing that can only be fixed by putting them on longer and tougher courses. But you cannot lose the Farr over this.
I am not putting this solely on Bivens though. I think the LPGA has other issues as well, like the robotic golf we have been seeing that can only be fixed by putting them on longer and tougher courses. But you cannot lose the Farr over this.
dazu44
New member
Bivens
Bivens
You are right JB it's not totally Biven's fault but you need to look at the leadership being provided, and I believe Bevins and the board has fallen short on marketing, selling, and promoting this product.
I think the venues need to change play some of the courses (for the majors) that the men are playing. Remove Bulle Rock even though it's a very good course, Pine Needles was a great course but not on the level of Pinehurst # 2. A major, major shot in the arm would be to see if a ladies major could be played at Augusta Nation, I would love to watch that, and see how the ladies do on that course.
I think the Pinehurst # 2 announcement was fantastic, though I wonder how it will affect attendance at the Ladies US OPEN the following week but we'll see. I still see it as a good move.
I went to Saucon Valley to see the practice round on Wednesday attendance was light, the atmosphere was not charged as it should be the day before a major. I saw 2 American players, Rosie Jones and Meg Mellon, and I was there for 3 hours. I do not know the foreign players, they held no appeal for me, but they were very friendly and signed autographs and Rosie Jones came through the ropes to have a picture taken with two children, that was special. Let's hope it's a good US Open or it could only add to the faltering state of the LPGA.
Bivens
You are right JB it's not totally Biven's fault but you need to look at the leadership being provided, and I believe Bevins and the board has fallen short on marketing, selling, and promoting this product.
I think the venues need to change play some of the courses (for the majors) that the men are playing. Remove Bulle Rock even though it's a very good course, Pine Needles was a great course but not on the level of Pinehurst # 2. A major, major shot in the arm would be to see if a ladies major could be played at Augusta Nation, I would love to watch that, and see how the ladies do on that course.
I think the Pinehurst # 2 announcement was fantastic, though I wonder how it will affect attendance at the Ladies US OPEN the following week but we'll see. I still see it as a good move.
I went to Saucon Valley to see the practice round on Wednesday attendance was light, the atmosphere was not charged as it should be the day before a major. I saw 2 American players, Rosie Jones and Meg Mellon, and I was there for 3 hours. I do not know the foreign players, they held no appeal for me, but they were very friendly and signed autographs and Rosie Jones came through the ropes to have a picture taken with two children, that was special. Let's hope it's a good US Open or it could only add to the faltering state of the LPGA.