A Woman At Augusta - Good or Bad?

[worst_shot_ever]

I've chimed in on these threads previously, so I won't get too deep in it this time. In a nutshell, a very small one at that, I think the point JB raised earlier -- that no one would care if the Masters weren't played at Augusta -- is exactly what makes Augusta different than other private clubs with restrictive membership lists. In other words, its members have assiduously thrust the club into the public eye. It is among the most historic, prominent, and prized golf tracks in the entire world. The membership benefits exceedingly from the massive public attention they earnestly solicit each year for their venue, both financially and socially. Thus, there is no substitute for Augusta, and accordingly, the fact that women are de facto excluded from the membership rolls strikes me as different, and more distasteful, than similar exclusions at other private clubs. Put another way, sure I agree us men deserve a place to hang out free from the bother of dealing with the opposite sex, just as women deserve the same; but that interest gives way when the course that is being monopolized is a core piece of the heritage of golf, as Augusta National inarguably is. At least it's an intellectually honest and rational distinction to draw, I think.

 

[JB]

It is not really the members that thrust the club into the public eye. In fact it is the exact opposite. The member list we are assuming benefits, but we have no idea if it does or not. I just cannot understand how someone can say that because this course is in the public eye it has to be opened up.
That goes against every rule of private clubs. Here is what the fact really comes down to in my opinion. Women can and do have their own clubs. And if they had their own golf club and the LPGA played there, that would be great. You would NEVER hear anything from the opposite sex because the truth is men dont care.

 

[C-Tech]

The members at the Masters do benefit from the tournament only because of the revenue it brings. For many years, they have sold the tournament well below market value (about 25% of what they might get) in order to keep control of the number of commercials, etc. We all benefit from that as they only allow a few minutes of commercials per hour so we get the tournament without being bombarded like we are at the Super Bowl. Regardless, Augusta National puts the tournament on for the benefit of the game more than the revenue. I think we should all be grateful that they continue to support the Masters year after year in spite of the troubles they have lived through annually to do it. It takes hard men with a purpose not to cave to the Martha Burkes of this world.

 

[GolferGal]

I have mentioned this in the other thread we had like this one but as a female I couldn't care less that Augusta is a private men's club. I know women are always trying to push for equality and women's rights but if it's a private club, then it is what it is so get over it.

 

[Diane]

GG - As a younger woman, you've had many opportunities that older women such as Martha Burke didn't have. There was no Title IX when she was in school and the glass ceiling was much lower when she entered the work force. I am 20 years older than you and when I entered a public school kindergarten in 1968 - girls were not allowed to wear pants to school. My mother was not allowed to sit at a bar in CT in the 50's - she had to sit at a table. The small things you take for granted are available to you because of women like Martha Burke. I don't really care about Augusta, but I care about the bigger picture of what this means.

 

[JB]

Diane,
In your own arguement you seem to realize that those things have changed. It seems every time one of these arguments comes up it is always about "well 30 years ago it was not like that". But it is now. Diane would you have the same issue if there was an all ladies club and their was an LPGA event there?

 

[GolferGal]

Oh please don't get me wrong, I am so grateful for all the wonderful, strong women who have allowed me to live in the world I live in today. I know without them things would be completely different. But I also don't think I can continue to dwell on the past, instead I have to focus on the future. I think that there are too many minority groups who can't get over what once was instead of enjoying what we have now. I am a jewish female and I have heard so many stories from my family members about what is was like when they were kids, but they say the same thing that I just said. It is terrible what happened in the past, but there is no reason to focus on that, instead they live their lives for the present and the future.

 

[Diane]

Diane,
In your own arguement you seem to realize that those things have changed. It seems every time one of these arguments comes up it is always about "well 30 years ago it was not like that". But it is now. Diane would you have the same issue if there was an all ladies club and their was an LPGA event there?

That's an interesting question. If it was a club that had members such as Indra Nooyi, Anne Mulcahy and Irene Rosenfeld, then yes, I'd take issue with it. The Augusta membership is filled with influential men that have access to each other in a setting where we all know business is conducted. Women are denied the opportunity to be part of that.

 

[GolferGal]

That's an interesting question. If it was a club that had members such as Indra Nooyi, Anne Mulcahy and Irene Rosenfeld, then yes, I'd take issue with it. The Augusta membership is filled with influential men that have access to each other in a setting where we all know business is conducted. Women are denied the opportunity to be part of that.

Diane,

Forgive me if I am wrong, but I thought women were allowed to play at August they just weren't allowed to join as members. So if a member invites a group to play with them, and during that time they conduct business, couldn't they invite the ladies as well? Now whether they do that or not is another issue, but technically couldn't that happen?

 

[JB]

It could GG. They are allowed to play the course.

 

[JB]

That's an interesting question. If it was a club that had members such as Indra Nooyi, Anne Mulcahy and Irene Rosenfeld, then yes, I'd take issue with it. The Augusta membership is filled with influential men that have access to each other in a setting where we all know business is conducted. Women are denied the opportunity to be part of that.

I believe you are in the minority there Diane. Because I can assure that the Martha Burke's of the world would have NO issue with it whatsoever.

 

[Diane]

I believe you are in the minority there Diane. Because I can assure that the Martha Burke's of the world would have NO issue with it whatsoever.

I think older business women can become very hard - not all of them, but definitely a lot of them.

Yes, women can play at Augusta - when invited. You have to admit that being a guest doesn't carry the same standing as being a member - of any club or organization.

I am not a diehard feminist - please keep opening my door for me - it's a nice gesture. However, we live in a world that is run by white men - you can't deny that. Yeah yeah - I've heard of Obama.

 

[Craig Mac]

 

[JB]

I would say we used to live in a world that is run by white men. I am not sure it is the same as it was. Sure the majority is, but I think the leader of the US proved that race and sex do not matter as much as they used to.

 

[JB]

I think one thing people are forgetting is that being a member at a golf course like Augusta is a privilege and playing that course is too. Perhaps people that are out there playing are doing just that. Playing golf.

 

[AHacker'sHacker]

I think older business women can become very hard - not all of them, but definitely a lot of them.

Yes, women can play at Augusta - when invited. You have to admit that being a guest doesn't carry the same standing as being a member - of any club or organization.

I am not a diehard feminist - please keep opening my door for me - it's a nice gesture. However, we live in a world that is run by white men - you can't deny that. Yeah yeah - I've heard of Obama.

Diane, in my previous posts I have not intended to direct my comments to you directly. However this time I am. Your comments above are exactly what drives many men to want to join male only clubs.

 

[Diane]

I would say we used to live in a world that is run by white men. I am not sure it is the same as it was. Sure the majority is, but I think the leader of the US proved that race and sex do not matter as much as they used to.

I don't want to turn this into a political debate, but Obama proved race doesn't matter. This country wasn't ready for a woman president. Look at history - African Americans were given the right to vote in 1870 - women were given that right in 1920.

 

[Hanks]

koom-by-yaaa my lord.......koom by-yaaaaa

 

[JB]

I don't want to turn this into a political debate, but Obama proved race doesn't matter. This country wasn't ready for a woman president. Look at history - African Americans were given the right to vote in 1870 - women were given that right in 1920.

If you believe that minority races have more openings than women in todays day and age, all the power to you, but as someone that deals with hirings and firings each day, I assure you that it is not the case.

 

[Ty_Webb]

I don't want to turn this into a political debate, but Obama proved race doesn't matter. This country wasn't ready for a woman president. Look at history - African Americans were given the right to vote in 1870 - women were given that right in 1920.

Hi Diane

I think the only reason we don't have a woman president right now is because Hillary Clinton took the Democratic nomination for granted and completely fouled up her campaign.

As to the original question, no I don't think Augusta should have to have female members. It's a private club. What they want to do with it is their business and no one else's. Do I think they should have women members? On balance, probably, but to be brutally honest, I don't care. I'm never going to be a member there, so why should I care about anyone else being so?

 

[roughing_it]

I've chimed in on these threads previously, so I won't get too deep in it this time. In a nutshell, a very small one at that, I think the point JB raised earlier -- that no one would care if the Masters weren't played at Augusta -- is exactly what makes Augusta different than other private clubs with restrictive membership lists. In other words, its members have assiduously thrust the club into the public eye. It is among the most historic, prominent, and prized golf tracks in the entire world. The membership benefits exceedingly from the massive public attention they earnestly solicit each year for their venue, both financially and socially. Thus, there is no substitute for Augusta, and accordingly, the fact that women are de facto excluded from the membership rolls strikes me as different, and more distasteful, than similar exclusions at other private clubs. Put another way, sure I agree us men deserve a place to hang out free from the bother of dealing with the opposite sex, just as women deserve the same; but that interest gives way when the course that is being monopolized is a core piece of the heritage of golf, as Augusta National inarguably is. At least it's an intellectually honest and rational distinction to draw, I think.

Excellent post WSE. Augusta isn't like any other private club. If it didn't hold The Masters it would be just another nice private course. It draws it's reputation and stature from an event it holds yearly sanctioned by the PGA Tour. I have no problem with their restrictive membership policies nor do I have a problem with the heat they take at Masters time because of them. They've already shown that they couldn't care less about the outside pressure. It's a dead issue.

 

[Gummi Bear]

That's an interesting question. If it was a club that had members such as Indra Nooyi, Anne Mulcahy and Irene Rosenfeld, then yes, I'd take issue with it. The Augusta membership is filled with influential men that have access to each other in a setting where we all know business is conducted. Women are denied the opportunity to be part of that.

Have you personally been denied any opportunity to conduct business there? So what if they're conducting business, it's perfectly legal for them to do so. Are you missing an opportunity to do business with these folks?

YES. This is america, equal rights for all genders and races, no metter the circumstances. /thread

What is your definition of "Private"?

America is capitalized, always. No exceptions.

 

[Diane]

Have you personally been denied any opportunity to conduct business there?

I'm not sure what your point is in asking. The answer is no. I've been very clear that I am not an executive on that level, nor am I a feminist. My only stake in this argument is that I believe change will and should come in time.

Are you and HackersHackers the same person? Your style is very similiar. :confused2:

 

[AHacker'sHacker]

I'm not sure what your point is in asking. The answer is no. I've been very clear that I am not an executive on that level, nor am I a feminist. My only stake in this argument is that I believe change will and should come in time.

Are you and HackersHackers the same person? Your style is very similiar. :confused2:

We can’t be the same person, I don’t have any Ping clubs!

 

[Gummi Bear]

My point is: why do you care?

Change will not, and should not come to Augusta. It's a private club. It's their right to be exclusive, just the same as it's your right to complain about being excluded.