Almost came to blows today....rules and etiquette help please!

[WWPSD]

I can't really speak to that because I am not that good. I know when I played high level soccer it was not really possible to take it "lightly". Even when I play in adult leagues, once you step on the field it is all business all the time...but only for soccer for me since I was at a higher level. I am not that way with golf, tennis, or any other sport.

I will spare the stories of fists flailing about on the soccer field, but that is a physical game. If that is his level for golf and he knew he was wronged, I can not speak to his mental state....but I do know he had to play much more aggressively because of the extra strokes, more then he normally would have. I do not judge people's mindset during any athletics because you do what you have to do to get yourself where you need to be mentally.

I am pissed that I had 3 up and downs...1 for birdie and 2 for par....and only 33 putts total counting a 65 footer on 18...but that was for a double to save my 90.

 

[OFvar]

That is why I hate handicap tournaments. Too many people complain and cheat and sandbag. Play a straight up tournament, may the best golfer win. Flight it afterward if you want to award multiple prizes.

agreed. i think there should be flights, but no hdcp involved in the actual match. So you have a 10 hdcp playing an 8 in the same flight but just straight up. Plus it makes things a lot simpler

 

[WWPSD]

agreed. i think there should be flights, but no hdcp involved in the actual match. So you have a 10 hdcp playing an 8 in the same flight but just straight up. Plus it makes things a lot simpler

I like individual tourneys that way as well...but pretty tough to make a 32 team single elimination tourney like that. We even have a 64 player single match play tourney. There are only 32 in this one since it is 2-man.

Everything else the club does is flighted...usually 10 flights. Then they all play for an overall winner...but still Gross and Net winners are given overall.

 

[JB]

agreed. i think there should be flights, but no hdcp involved in the actual match. So you have a 10 hdcp playing an 8 in the same flight but just straight up. Plus it makes things a lot simpler

That still leads to sandbagging.

 

[WWPSD]

That still leads to sandbagging.

I know a guy I used to work with who played regularly in the Golf Channel Tour events, and I played the eGolf tour. I know that he would not post good scores until after his tournaments because he did not want to be moved to a better flight. He did win a tourney once in that lower flight...but the Golf Channel tour here is TINY...only 2-5 players per flight because the eGolf tour gets everyone around here.

But it pissed me off hearing that he used to do that....probably still does it today.

 

[Sir Shanksalot]

LOL. My guest also almost came to blows at our last member guest with the guys we were playing against. My friend finally said 'if you're going to talk to me that way put the putter down'. The guy shut up and we finished out the match.

 

[WWPSD]

I guess you really can't say..."wanna take this outside".

 

[BigLeftyinAZ]

This is exactly the reason I hate tourny play. People take it way too seriously. I am glad so many love it, but for me, I love the game far too much for this.

It's not tourneys that stink.It's net tourneys that stink.Gross and only gross is the way golf should be played. Flighted is the only way to go.

I too find it hard to believe a +8 shooting 71. 74-76,I'd believe.

 

[WWPSD]

It's not tourneys that stink.It's net tourneys that stink.Gross and only gross is the way golf should be played. Flighted is the only way to go.

I too find it hard to believe a +8 shooting 71. 74-76,I'd believe.

Agreed!

But even worse...get this....he was -3 after the front 9 and -3 after 11. After the ruling that it did not count he shot +2 for the last 7 holes. I was thinking BS the whole way.

 

[WWPSD]

I should also mention that our club is the proud home of the highest ever $ winner for the Tar Heel Tour...along with David Mobley of Big Break XI infamy. Maybe too much testosterone in the water at the clubhouse.

 

[bama]

JB and Bama....I just want an honest opinion about the finish...every other stupid thing aside. Kinda like the 2-5 handicapper on their team in an 8s clothing.

Should it have continued and finished with adjustments later...or should it have been replayed. If you were in that situation what would you expect to happen....replay or finish and adjust knowing that it could have changed things mentally.

JB and Bama....I just want an honest opinion about the finish...every other stupid thing aside. Kinda like the 2-5 handicapper on their team in an 8s clothing.

Should it have continued and finished with adjustments later...or should it have been replayed. If you were in that situation what would you expect to happen....replay or finish and adjust knowing that it could have changed things mentally.

I am torn....I would have to see what end of the stick I was on...
Honestly........I am a competitive person....
if I was winning, I would say play it out and readjust...
If I was losing I would want the restart.
Regardless, I think there is a mental variable to being behind or ahead and being asked the question...
The rule says you have to replay, so that is that..

Considering the rule you just pointed out about declaring a handicap before the round or being disqualified..Since the other teams hdcp was correct, it does not apply...right....

Probably why I just play friendly rounds....(the bets my friend and I make dont get to more than $10 at the end of the day....) Not even arguable when drinking the pitcher of beer, watchin the sun set behind #18:clapp:

 

[bama]

Agreed!

But even worse...get this....he was -3 after the front 9 and -3 after 11. After the ruling that it did not count he shot +2 for the last 7 holes. I was thinking BS the whole way.

He could have just been pissed off....or sandbagging...
One thing I am working on is playing 1 hole at a time...
If its a bad hole, the next hole is a new day...

Some day I will get to the "1 swing at a time"

Water under the bridge is damn tough in golf..

 

[WWPSD]

I am torn....I would have to see what end of the stick I was on...
Honestly........I am a competitive person....
if I was winning, I would say play it out and readjust...
If I was losing I would want the restart.
Regardless, I think there is a mental variable to being behind or ahead and being asked the question...
The rule says you have to replay, so that is that..

Considering the rule you just pointed out about declaring a handicap before the round or being disqualified..Since the other teams hdcp was correct, it does not apply...right....

Probably why I just play friendly rounds....(the bets my friend and I make dont get to more than $10 at the end of the day....) Not even arguable when drinking the pitcher of beer, watchin the sun set behind #18:clapp:

Good point....but it day say if if affects the number of strokes given or received you are disqualified. It is weird though, cause we started the match, but clearly did not want it that way...but I guess playing the start agrees that it is as is...make sense. Even though they forced us into that situation. If I wanted to be an a$$, which I do not, I think I would have a good case with the fact that THEY talked the pro into a situation where they received more shot then the rules allow...so could be a DQ.

 

[WWPSD]

He could have just been pissed off....or sandbagging...
One thing I am working on is playing 1 hole at a time...
If its a bad hole, the next hole is a new day...

Some day I will get to the "1 swing at a time"

Water under the bridge is damn tough in golf..

It is a little easier in match play...and I am trying very hard to take that mentality into stroke play rounds as well...it would help my game greatly if I could plug the damn after a hole or two and prevent the blow-out.

 

[Ty_Webb]

Par is 72 right? Course rating also 72? According to the pope of slope website (http://www.popeofslope.com/sandbagging/odds.html) the chances of an 8 shooting a -9 differential is 27,000 to 1 against.

Leaving that aside, if you have a match between a 0 and a 4 handicap, you apply the 0.8 and the shots difference is 3. If you have a match between a 4 and an 8, again, the shot difference is 3. 8 plays 12, the difference is 3 and so on and so forth. Why on earth would it then be that a +4 plays a 0 and the shot difference should be 5? I'm honestly stunned that the pro ever thought that what they said was right. He really ought to know. If someone pulled something like that on me, I'd laugh at them and there's no way I'm starting until they've got the record set straight. Unless that is I could get them to agree to forfeit the match if it turns out that they're wrong. Then I might think about it.

Diane - your dad should know better. Ask your brother. I bet he knows.

I can't get my head round the idea that an 80% tournament (where you multiply handicaps by 80%) would mean that for plus handicaps, you multiply by 120%. Why? I can't think of any rationale at all.

WWPSD - I have sympathy for your partner. He's basically getting bent over the table by the opposition and the pro and he knows it, but no one will listen. I can imagine resorting to sarcasm at that point is about all there is left.

As for the other question about replaying or adjusting and continuing, I was under the impression that you couldn't adjust a score part way through. I think a strict reading of the rules would disqualify them, but replaying seems like a fair option (assuming that they didn't know they were wrong, which, given what else you said I wouldn't put past the 8 at least).

 

[WWPSD]

Par is 72 right? Course rating also 72? According to the pope of slope website (http://www.popeofslope.com/sandbagging/odds.html) the chances of an 8 shooting a -9 differential is 27,000 to 1 against.



WWPSD - I have sympathy for your partner. He's basically getting bent over the table by the opposition and the pro and he knows it, but no one will listen. I can imagine resorting to sarcasm at that point is about all there is left.

Wow, thank you there. I could tell he felt that way....knowing the rule 100% but getting screwed. The most angering part was how we were spoken to by them for questioning their changing of the scoring. We were really spoken down to in a way that angered me as well...but I am just there for the ride and did not want trouble with fellow club members. But they would not even let us give a side to the deal.

BTW....tee one up from the back here 71.1 rating and 130 slope.

 

[WWPSD]

As for the other question about replaying or adjusting and continuing, I was under the impression that you couldn't adjust a score part way through. I think a strict reading of the rules would disqualify them, but replaying seems like a fair option (assuming that they didn't know they were wrong, which, given what else you said I wouldn't put past the 8 at least).

I also thought that...and I would not put it past the 8 handicapper at all...it is no surprise to me that he was the one yelling about how "they are known as some of the most honest guys at the club...and my partner is known as the most honest". (I wish I knew we were having an honesty contest...and how is that judged, on a scale of 0-10?) Who says stuff like that unless you have been called on it before...or if you have a guilty conscience. Sucks that the 71 he just shot will not be added until the 1st of August, after our match. How many 8s fire 5 birdies in a round?

 

[Ty_Webb]

I also thought that...and I would not put it past the 8 handicapper at all...it is no surprise to me that he was the one yelling about how "they are known as some of the most honest guys at the club...and my partner is known as the most honest". (I wish I knew we were having an honesty contest...and how is that judged, on a scale of 0-10?) Who says stuff like that unless you have been called on it before...or if you have a guilty conscience. Sucks that the 71 he just shot will not be added until the 1st of August, after our match. How many 8s fire 5 birdies in a round?

Somewhere between zero and none I suspect. Leaving that aside, I'm trying to think how I would react if I was in their situation. If I think that the way the handicaps have been worked out aren't right and I should be getting more shots, so I go talk to the pro and he agrees with me, then my opponent says something like "what? That's ridiculous". I can be a stubborn bar steward at times, so I probably wouldn't back down that easily, but I wouldn't resort to talking down or finger pointing (I hope - easy to sit here and say that). I also think that I would listen to his point and if it made sense, I'd want to make sure that we were doing the right thing before we started.

Granted it's difficult to say when I've only heard your point of view on this and haven't heard their side of it, but it strikes me that they were entirely in the wrong on this one. :bicker:

 

[bama]

Par is 72 right? Course rating also 72? According to the pope of slope website (http://www.popeofslope.com/sandbagging/odds.html) the chances of an 8 shooting a -9 differential is 27,000 to 1 against.........

I like that site....My best ever was a 79 with a 14 hdcp...
Par course was 72

According to the Pope, that's a 552:1 longshot....
Nowhere near a 27000+:1 ratio..
And definitely not on a tourney day....

I wonder what the odds would be if you shot a -9 differential in a tourney??
And lets consider that you only play tourneys 3 times per year...LOL

good Probabilities and Statistics 101 question....

 

[Diane]

Granted it's difficult to say when I've only heard your point of view on this and haven't heard their side of it, but it strikes me that they were entirely in the wrong on this one. :bicker:

I sense the beginning of a beautiful friendship here.

 

[WWPSD]

I sense the beginning of a beautiful friendship here.

Between Ty and me yes!!! :highfive: I honestly felt bad for my teammate because it just was not right...and I was really pissed at them speaking down to us since they knew we were newer members compared to them at 10+ years. I would have been more angry if I was not more consumed with trying to keep my partners head in a different direction. I don't care who you are, I can not stand it when people speak to any other person with a condacending tone. It is probably my biggest pet peeve because of the obvious lack of respect at that moment. So they lack all respect for us...but have a ton on honestly. I question any persons character if you feel the need to be condacending to another human being.

 

[dynarider]

This thread made my head hurt & I only managed to get through the first 2 pages.

 

[TheGasman]

I would re play it. They started this whole deal by bringing it up to the pro, why not turn the tables on them a little bit. It is a mental game after all.

 

[WWPSD]

Right now I am going to talk to the head pro tomorrow about the situation. What is bugging me is that they were so insistent that they follow all rules to a tee with the utmost honesty. So I am taking rule 6-2 to the pro and asking him to make the call given the fact that they stated that they follow "all rules". I am not going to ask him to DQ them, but I am going to ask him to make the call...even though the other team did not do this as them convinced the assistant pro that their logic, not rule, should be followed.

I know you are all going to say to leave it alone and replay the match, and I could had they apologized about the situation. The 100% owe us both an apology for the way they spoke to us and for demanding that they were right and we were playing their way. If the pro tells us to replay it...I am going to ask that he request the other players to shake our hand and apologize on the first tee. We were humiliated at our own club, and I have gotten 3 phone calls today from guys I know well asking "how did we screw them". Fortunately these calls were from people I know who said that the other guys were saying all afternoon that we should have finished the match.

It just is not right to be trash-talked, especially since my teammate has only been a member for 2 months and does not have relationships where people will call and ask his side of the story like people are doing for me. I would like for the pro to squash it hard and fast in the name of sportsmanship. Funny that they demanded an apology on the first tee, but never gave one in return.

 

[JB]

OMG, at this point you are going over the top. Its a club tourny and you want an apology. Should your friend apologize for being sarcastic? Over the top!!!!