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Mixing Ball Flights For a Bogey Golfer - Good Idea?

Otis32

Otis32

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Location
Minnesota
Handicap
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About two seasons ago I started working on a few things to improve my ball striking. In a nutshell I worked hard on centering my sternum over the ball, keeping a steady head, shorter backswing and cupping my right wrist some at the top. It has definately helped my mid-irons to wedge play and I started hitting a pretty solid & reasonably dependable draw. It has also added a lot of length to these clubs as well.

The flip side to this has been a very inconsistent tee ball. The few draws I hit are really pretty to watch but it is mostly lots of left-to-left shots, dead pushes and too many topped shots. My handicap has only improved slightly over the last two years (soon to creep up again given recent scores) and it is mostly suffering from penaltly shots and hitting from "the mess" after a bad tee shot.

The last two times out I stumbled on a (for lack of better words) a tee swing that is longer than my iron swing and includes no cupping of the right wrist/bowing of the left wrist. The ball is jumping off the club face pretty good and seems to go from a fade to a mild cut. Managed to play 27-holes yesterday afternoon and evening and by the last nine I had it down to mostly a fade and in a couple of instances a straight push. All very playable and longer than all but my best right-to-left shots.

Anybody else effectively play draws with the shorter clubs & fades with the longer ones? Is it a reasonable way to game it or am I really just looking at fools gold and likely a very temporary fix? My goal was to get the 'cap under 15 this summer and the old tee ball was not going to get me there.

Opinions definately welcome but please don't suggest lessons. That is on the agenda for later this fall (or next spring) but currently not financially feasible with paying the summer nanny, upcoming family vacation etc. etc.
 
The only thing I care about is getting off the tee safely, if it cuts, great. If it draws, great. If I double cross it but it still ends up in the fairway, even better haha.

Sometimes I'll try to work it based on the hole if there's an advantage to it but it just depends.
 
Hard to be consistent carrying 2 swings. Not impossible... Just hard.
 
I play a draw when needed and stick with what comes natural which is a fade on all the others. Best thing is to go with what is natural or at least try to hit it straight. Too many people get stuck thinking they need to "work" the ball on every shot.
 
I'm with you on the separate swings. Last year my driving was the best part of my game. So I started working on my irons and improved quite a bit with them. Once I did that my driving went out the window. Now I have two totally different swings, one for the fairway and one for the tee box. They're probably both horrible as far as technique goes, but at least I can keep the ball in play most of the time.
 
Thanks for the feedback.

Just for the record I'm not so much looking at working the ball based on hole shape, pin position etc. but as others have said having two swings I can feel good about. One for the long clubs off the tee and another for the mid to short irons from the fairway and the par threes.

Long approachs on the par 5's are a confidence thing for me anyway so if over time I feel good about the "fade" swing then maybe I pull the fairway wood or hybrid and have at it.
 
Although not impossible, I think trying to play two different ball flights is a difficult thing to do, for golfers of our ability. I hit the same shot you do, a nice draw off the tee when I'm grooved, a push or hook when my swing is out of sync. My irons draw, period, less with the low irons, more with the longer ones.

I've been playing 50+ years and don't want to put the effort into trying to change my swing. With a bad back and arthritic knees I don't have the capacity to put in lots of practice time. However, if I were younger I would definitely put the time in to try and cultivate a fade both off the tee and from the fairway.

I think the only other alternative is to simply practice, practice, and practice to get your swing grooved to eliminate pushes and make the draw your "go to" shot.

Good luck, from one guy who "goes left" to another.
 
The experiment continues. Got in 10 holes yesterday evening and did continue to hit it better off the tee with the long clubs. Not great but better. I tugged one left and pushed another right but both were more playable than my left-to-left miss & my push with the old swing.

One thing that gave me pause was two short iron shots that started on the intended line but faded a bit. Still very playable but both carried maybe a half club longer than normal.

Fades with my short irons are a pretty rare occurance and assume it was probably due to not cupping my right wrist enough. Does make we wander if I will struggle keeping the swings "straight" in my head. Good news was I had no left-to-left misses with the mid/short irons today. That generally happens a couple of times a side and they often end up farther off line.
 
I have a question, who told you cupping the wrist was a good thing?
 
Tadashi70 said:
I have a question, who told you cupping the wrist was a good thing?
Click to expand...

No one specifically but I do keep up on some instructional info and this was something that I've seen talked about as a way to help get the left wrist flat at impact. It has definately improved the quality of the strike for me w/the mid to short irons as long as I don't exaggerate it too much or get too long with the backswing. Long clubs as mentioned above not so much.

Also seems to have worked pretty well for guys like DJ, Watson and even saw a column by Johnny Miller in this months Golf where he notes Weiskopf as a guy who was bowed his left wrist and cupped his right wrist at the top.
 
Otis32 said:
No one specifically but I do keep up on some instructional info and this was something that I've seen talked about as a way to help get the left wrist flat at impact. It has definately improved the quality of the strike for me w/the mid to short irons as long as I don't exaggerate it too much or get too long with the backswing. Long clubs as mentioned above not so much.
Click to expand...

Thinking you want a supernated wrist more than a flat wrist @ impact...
 
wenpinow said:
Thinking you want a supernated wrist more than a flat wrist @ impact...
Click to expand...

Isn't "flat left wrist" basically current instruction speak for supination of the left wrist at impact?

I honestly don't know for sure if my wrist is flat or supinated at impact. Never video'd it. But I do know when I cup my right wrist/bow my left wrist in the back swing that I'm much more succesful at trapping/compressing (more instruction speak) the ball correctly and the distance, shot shape and overall ball flight is much better. Divots can be kind of impressive too.
 
I don't know if one thing or not can be considered reasonable or unreasonable. There is so much to the swing and so many different ways with so many different people. I don't think anything can ever really be right or wrong. In the end its all about what works. If that means different swings with different clubs for someone then so be it.
 
inar01_hank_haney_left_wrist.jpg



Large pic = Flat Wrist
Top right pic = Cupped wrist
Bottom right pic = Bowed wrist
 
I play (what I feel is) a more natural fade with my longer clubs and a more natural draw with the shorter ones. Despite that, depending on how I setup, I can hit either shape. The thing is, my swing stays exactly the same and shape is dictated by my grip and ball placement.

Having two swings seems like it would only lead to inconsistency, so I would not encourage that. I think anything that goes away from one swing is going to hurt your game.
 
Drumdog said:
inar01_hank_haney_left_wrist.jpg



Large pic = Flat Wrist
Top right pic = Cupped wrist
Bottom right pic = Bowed wrist
Click to expand...

Not sure what you are trying to communicate here? Hank Haney likes a neutral hand position at the top of the backswing?

FWIW my current driver swing should be pretty close to "flat wrist" and my current iron swing should be pretty much the "bowed wrist" pic.

Had a pretty good round (for me) at league last night and continued to drive the ball better. Think I will stick with it a while longer.
 
I definitely try to have the same swing driver through wedges and find my natural ball flight with driver is a slight fade, while my mid to short irons are fairly straighter. So those ball flight are good with me as long as they let me hit fairways & greens. :D
 
TheHeez said:
I play (what I feel is) a more natural fade with my longer clubs and a more natural draw with the shorter ones. Despite that, depending on how I setup, I can hit either shape. The thing is, my swing stays exactly the same and shape is dictated by my grip and ball placement.

Having two swings seems like it would only lead to inconsistency, so I would not encourage that. I think anything that goes away from one swing is going to hurt your game.
Click to expand...

Other than taking it a little forward so I can catch the driver on the upswing I tend to struggle when moving the ball position around.

Do you move it back to promote a draw and move it forward to promote a fade? How do you keep the bottom of your swing arc in front of the ball with the irons when you move it forward? Are you "picking" the ball in that instance?
 
I agree with most here, having two different swings is going to make your overall game inconsistent. I would work on that draw with your longer clubs. Having a draw swing wired with all clubs is an ideal swing, if you already can play a draw with shorter clubs you should be able to extend that swing to longer clubs. It will take some time, but as I said a draw comes from an inside out swing which is the preferred swing. When you have the draw mastered being able to hit a fade/ power fade off the tee is a nice way to control the ball on certain holes, but learn to draw first IMO. Distance wise a draw is almost always longer.
 
With my long clubs I naturally work the ball right to left (a fade, more of a cut a I guess, for me because I am lefty) and then on my 7 iron through my 56 I use a draw. My 52 I play a draw pretty much every time, I am able to get the ball to sit better this way. I think most people tend to work the ball just one way, because it is what feels natural to them. For me, both my driver cut and wedge draws feel perfectly natural. Do what feels right, if you're getting good results then stick with it.
 
I didn't read everything, but just responding to the subject line: I don't think being a bogey golfer means you lack the athleticism to strike a ball well necessarily. Maybe you lack consistency, maybe you play the wrong tees, or maybe you are just a really terrible putter.

I tend to hit shots I want to hit...mostly draws and straight shots. Hitting them with consistency and knowing how my lie, elevated green, and wind will affect the outcome of the ball strike is something I struggle with, hence I'm a bogey golfer. So I don't think it's wrong to score high but still try to work the ball, as long as it works and isn't the source of your high scoring.
 
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