We've launched the new forums! Read more here

The Masters Without Tiger - Straight Talk W/ Jake

I hate when a guy brings all these facts to a debate like this. Dammit ad....I told you that golf doesn't need TW!!! :D

I wonder how much the increase in the 2014 Honda has to do with Rory being in contention? I'd have to say a lot. So I would love to see this data be taken a step further, is Rory McIlroy our savior here? If the 2014 Honda ratings were that much higher with him in contention I wonder. I mean I know that's only 1 event, but what about his US Open and his PGA.....Tiger was well off the pace in both of those IIRC. Just wondering out loud here.
 
Puttin4Bird said:
I hate when a guy brings all these facts to a debate like this. Dammit ad....I told you that golf doesn't need TW!!! :D

I wonder how much the increase in the 2014 Honda has to do with Rory being in contention? I'd have to say a lot. So I would love to see this data be taken a step further, is Rory McIlroy our savior here? If the 2014 Honda ratings were that much higher with him in contention I wonder. I mean I know that's only 1 event, but what about his US Open and his PGA.....Tiger was well off the pace in both of those IIRC. Just wondering out loud here.
Click to expand...

It's a good question about the Honda and Rory...without going back to look I know the 2013 version was won by Michael Thompson, and it was a two man race with another lesser known individual (John Peterson maybe).
 
there's no doubt in anyone's mind that when Tiger doesn't play/contend...people don't watch.
but take a look at another 2 factors:

1. it's hard enough to get people to watch golf, period.
casual golf fans or people with stuff to do, really don't want to sit inside on a beautiful day when housework/chores or anything else could be done. my dad likes golf, but never watches it...cuz he works outside, etc...
what about how the majority of play is non-exciting? especially for non-golf fans, but who are sports fans...when players don't make putts or miraculous shots...basically you're watching well-dressed men walk on very well kept grass for HOURS, slowly.
most people won't watch it because it's slow and boring and methodical, etc. which amazes me that the same people will watch baseball or soccer ???
some of which, brings about the next point....

2. non-excitement, lack of drama
people don't watch NASCAR because it's awesome. they watch it hoping someone will crash.
when Rory won the 2011 US Open by 100 strokes...i tuned out. and like Jake said, Bubba had this Master's all but wrapped up by #10. and not one player made a push to catch him in any way, almost like it was scripted that way. boring....

hey, i'm a Tiger fan...i want him to win. hell, i think he was cheated last year at the Masters #DropGate
but if the new faces can't dominate like he did/can, then something needs to happen for the PGA to bring in viewers.

to hop onto Howzats' points....the NHL had to change rules and introduce new things to the game, and that really didn't even work!
if not for guys like Crosby and Ovechkin...yikes.
 
adwillingham said:
I am not discounting other factors (although comparing 2013 to 2014, while weather was certainly worse, I'm not sure about saying the economy is appreciably worse) but I was curious about non-Masters ratings (I assume just Sunday numbers here) for some of the early PGA Tour events this year. Numbers coming from SportsMediaWatch.com articles.

2014 Valero - Down 11% from 2013 (No Tiger either year)
2014 Tampa - Down 12% from 2013 (No Tiger either year)
2014 Doral - Down 24% from 2013 - Even with 2012 (Tiger WD in 2014, Won in 2013, WD in 2012)
2014 Bay Hill - Down 67% from 2012 (No Tiger 2014, Sunday rained out in 2013, Won in 2012)
2014 Honda - Up 30% from 2013 - Down 6%-7% from 2012 (Tiger WD 2014, not in contention 2013, T2 2012)
2014 Farmers - Down 28% from 2013 - Up 28% from 2012 (Tiger Cut 2014, Won 2013, DNP 2012)

Not trying to cherry pick data...these are just the ones I found easily, and there is definitely a Tiger trend there.
Click to expand...

That is why I believe that Tiger is part of the equation, but not the whole thing as being viewed by some.
Valero and Tampa show that well and attendance at Tampa event was dismil this year also.
 
Skimmed since my initial post, but agree from what I saw about the PGA needing the next big player to hopefully pull people in like Tiger. The tough part is going to be someone being able to do that with what the PGA now is because of Tiger.

There's so many people playing at higher levels now, I don't think anyone will be able to replicate what Tiger did. It would be great if Rory could get back to where he was, or if Spieth can continue to rise.
 
I have a question, If Phil, DJ, Keegan, Rickie and other true tour stars were playing better don't; you think ratings would be higher. We put all this on TW but non of the major stars are playing well this year. Look at the fedEx points standings. These guys aren't exactly the stars everyone tunes in to watch. Maybe it's not all about TW and more about the other stars that aren't playing well

2014 FedExCup
Standings through: The Masters +/-EventsPointsWins
1
trans.gif
Jimmy Walker		–142,0462
2
trans.gif
Bubba Watson		+391,8402
3Patrick Reed-1121,3432
4
trans.gif
Dustin Johnson		-181,3340
5
trans.gif
Harris English		-1141,2530
6
trans.gif
Jordan Spieth		+6121,1150
7
trans.gif
Chris Kirk		-1131,1090
8
trans.gif
Zach Johnson		-1111,0311
9
trans.gif
Matt Every		-1129941
10
trans.gif
Webb Simpson		-1119710
 
tyno said:
there's no doubt in anyone's mind that when Tiger doesn't play/contend...people don't watch.
but take a look at another 2 factors:

1. it's hard enough to get people to watch golf, period.
casual golf fans or people with stuff to do, really don't want to sit inside on a beautiful day when housework/chores or anything else could be done. my dad likes golf, but never watches it...cuz he works outside, etc...
what about how the majority of play is non-exciting? especially for non-golf fans, but who are sports fans...when players don't make putts or miraculous shots...basically you're watching well-dressed men walk on very well kept grass for HOURS, slowly.
most people won't watch it because it's slow and boring and methodical, etc. which amazes me that the same people will watch baseball or soccer ???
some of which, brings about the next point....

2. non-excitement, lack of drama
people don't watch NASCAR because it's awesome. they watch it hoping someone will crash.
when Rory won the 2011 US Open by 100 strokes...i tuned out. and like Jake said, Bubba had this Master's all but wrapped up by #10. and not one player made a push to catch him in any way, almost like it was scripted that way. boring....

hey, i'm a Tiger fan...i want him to win. hell, i think he was cheated last year at the Masters #DropGate
but if the new faces can't dominate like he did/can, then something needs to happen for the PGA to bring in viewers.

to hop onto Howzats' points....the NHL had to change rules and introduce new things to the game, and that really didn't even work!
if not for guys like Crosby and Ovechkin...yikes.
Click to expand...
Good points bro. Your #1 point is always going to be the case, regardless if Superman himself became a member of the PGA Tour and dominated every week, #1 is still going to be the case for many people and that's just the way it is. Sure they may tune in if they happen to catch something earlier in the week on the news saying that Superman himself was among the leaders at the Masters and promised to do something amazing when he wins. So that's just the tough thing that the sport of golf is faced with. It's not like football where they have these bigger than life athletes trying to tear each other's heads off on the gridiron, that stuff is exciting, people will make arrangements to watch that, especially their teams and with how popular Fantasy Football has become. Football rules. Period.

#2 yeah that's the part that Tiger can and does bring to the table. And for guys like me....I will watch regardless because my excitement watching golf comes in other forms, I love to see journeymen or first time winners break through because I know how much of a struggle it is for these guys and I love to see when they finally pull through, changing their lives. I also love to see the courses they play on and just a list of other things that I love to watch that your average sports fan just doesn't give a crap about.

I'm sure there are NHL forums out there talking similar discussions, to me the golf fan, I see their situation as even worse than golf, but that's just because I literally do not and have not ever watched a single game. And don't ask me how the hell baseball thrives and continues to draw viewers in, that crap is boring as hell!!! Don't get me started on frickin soccer. Jeez.
 
Nice article Jake. We are pretty much in agreement on this one!
 
Just read the article and I could NOT agree more. Very well written!!
 
Tadashi70 said:
I have a question, If Phil, DJ, Keegan, Rickie and other true tour stars were playing better don't; you think ratings would be higher. We put all this on TW but non of the major stars are playing well this year. Look at the fedEx points standings. These guys aren't exactly the stars everyone tunes in to watch. Maybe it's not all about TW and more about the other stars that aren't playing well

2014 FedExCup
Standings through: The Masters+/-EventsPointsWins
1
trans.gif
Jimmy Walker		–142,0462
2
trans.gif
Bubba Watson		+391,8402
3Patrick Reed-1121,3432
4
trans.gif
Dustin Johnson		-181,3340
5
trans.gif
Harris English		-1141,2530
6
trans.gif
Jordan Spieth		+6121,1150
7
trans.gif
Chris Kirk		-1131,1090
8
trans.gif
Zach Johnson		-1111,0311
9
trans.gif
Matt Every		-1129941
10
trans.gif
Webb Simpson		-1119710
Click to expand...
Good point dude, the fact is the stars of the tour are playing like dogs right now. I'm sure it's driving the brass of the Tour NUTS!
 
freddie....great point.

Rickie, for instance, has done a lot for the game, bringing some flare and getting youth involved.
i bet if he had more than 1 WIN ON TOUR!!! ONE! UNO! , we'd all be saying..."Tiger who?"
 
The Masters transcends the players and that place is so special that missing TW didn't hurt anything, but ratings and that is debatable why they were so low. I will admit on Sunday my interest diminished, but not because TW was not there. It was because by #10 there was not really a rally being mounted to create the Sunday at Augusta drama we are used to seeing. I think if you saw Speith mount a charge and push Bubba a little more, the rating would have been right on par with last year and that incredible finish. If you had Phil, Rickie DJ, or Couples pushing up the leaderboard a lot of side storied to be told and you would see the ratings up where they are used to seeing them. TW not being there is one part, but not the main reason IMO. Until we have the next American star step up and contend on a weekly basis like TW has, I think we will continue to see more of the same in the future.

Great job Jake on the piece and articulated very well!
 
Last edited:
The thing about stars is an interesting one. Because then you have to decide what makes a star?
Phil? Yup, but slightly injured and of course aging.
Tiger? Since #UglyHookerGate has been majorless, but played very well in spots outside of majors
Rickie? Possibly, but has never had much success at all.

Who else? Bubba, maybe. DJ, maybe. Who is a star?
 
Puttin4Bird said:
I'm sure there are NHL forums out there talking similar discussions, to me the golf fan, I see their situation as even worse than golf, but that's just because I literally do not and have not ever watched a single game. And don't ask me how the hell baseball thrives and continues to draw viewers in, that crap is boring as hell!!! Don't get me started on frickin soccer. Jeez.
Click to expand...

I think you will find that those fans of baseball, football, NHL, soccer, etc. will all say the same thing about golf. It all boils down to what people are passionate about.

Its funny though, on facebook there was a post from a friend this past weekend who loves baseball. He made a comment similar to "was watching the Royals game and decided to flip over to the Masters. Spent 5 minutes watching and saw a guy stare at the ball for 4 of those minutes, then got up to the ball and missed the putt, how do people watch this". Which really cracks me up because he will spend that same amount of time watching a pitcher throw 7-8 pitches and end up walking the hitter, but somehow to him that's more enjoyable than watching basically the same thing with a golfer.

I'm not knocking baseball at all here as I'm a big fan and I enjoy watching the Cubs and the Royals regularly.
 
Stars to me would be GMAC, DJ, Keegan, Duff daddy, Rickie, Adam, Jordan, Rors, Day

But I guess you could make an argument that TW makes these guy play better. I have thought about this and it feels like the absence of TW has sort of taking the drive out of some of these guys. It was like we are all expecting the TW of old to show up after five wins last year and he is gone. I feel like the top guys were looking forward to mixing it up with him and its been a let down. So then you could say TW drives more than numbers.

I am just trying to look at this from all sides, not flip flopping.
 
Great article!!! Two of my favorite paragraphs below.

"I loved it! Hardcore golf fans don’t care if it’s Tiger Woods (or in this case Bubba Watson) donning the green jacket on Sunday evening. We just want to see a good tournament at a course that 99% of the population can only dream of seeing in person. We got exactly what we were hoping for too."

"The Masters does not need Tiger Woods. The PGA Tour does not need Tiger Woods. There are so many talented players and exciting story lines week-in and week-out that the game of golf will be just fine long after Tiger hangs up his spikes."
 
JB said:
The thing about stars is an interesting one. Because then you have to decide what makes a star?
Phil? Yup, but slightly injured and of course aging.
Tiger? Since #UglyHookerGate has been majorless, but played very well in spots outside of majors
Rickie? Possibly, but has never had much success at all.

Who else? Bubba, maybe. DJ, maybe. Who is a star?
Click to expand...

I think there are some great golfers but I don't think anyone catapaults to the top like Tiger does when he's in the field, even if he's not in contention he's proven last year that his mediocre is better than most players best lol.

I was really disappointed with this years Masters, I found it dull, uneventful, and Blah. I missed the heroic shots from Phil behind the trees trying to move on Sunday, Tigers precision accuracy on the huge cut shots out of the other fairway that land 10 feet from the pin, Ernies steady eddie play that puts him in the hunt. There were some great shots and Bubba did a helluva job, he played his best and won and I'm truly happy for him but it was boring. Ev en some of the greens on the course looked sketchy with verticut lines and dead spots. I wonder if this is how everyone feels that grew up in an era when the greats of that time are slowly going away.
 
Tadashi70 said:
Stars to me would be GMAC, DJ, Keegan, Duff daddy, Rickie, Adam, Jordan, Rors, Day

But I guess you could make an argument that TW makes these guy play better. I have thought about this and it feels like the absence of TW has sort of taking the drive out of some of these guys. It was like we are all expecting the TW of old to show up after five wins last year and he is gone. I feel like the top guys were looking forward to mixing it up with him and its been a let down. So then you could say TW drives more than numbers.

I am just trying to look at this from all sides, not flip flopping.
Click to expand...

Im not sure I go with that part of it. I dont think its his absence. He has been there, just not playing well outside of select tournies last year. I would argue that half that are on that list are not even names the casual viewer would recognize if they came in their home and robbed them. Jason Dufner is not a star in my opinion. Spieth might be one one day, but he is not a star yet. Keegan Bradley is not a star.

They are stars to us, the golf fan, just as Davis Love III was, Steve Stricker was, Luke Donald was, Lee Westwood was. None of those guys are stars of a sport though.

Heck the Adam Scott on Parks & Rec might be a bigger star than the Adam Scott the golfer in the US.
 
JB said:
Im not sure I go with that part of it. I dont think its his absence. He has been there, just not playing well outside of select tournies last year. I would argue that half that are on that list are not even names the casual viewer would recognize if they came in their home and robbed them. Jason Dufner is not a star in my opinion. Spieth might be one one day, but he is not a star yet. Keegan Bradley is not a star.

They are stars to us, the golf fan, just as Davis Love III was, Steve Stricker was, Luke Donald was, Lee Westwood was. None of those guys are stars of a sport though.

Heck the Adam Scott on Parks & Rec might be a bigger star than the Adam Scott the golfer in the US.
Click to expand...

I agree. As someone who didn't start paying attention again to the PGA until last year after a while of not, I'd never even heard of Dufner. Outside of TW, Rory would be my guess as to the biggest name to the casual fan.
 
JB said:
The thing about stars is an interesting one. Because then you have to decide what makes a star?
Phil? Yup, but slightly injured and of course aging.
Tiger? Since #UglyHookerGate has been majorless, but played very well in spots outside of majors
Rickie? Possibly, but has never had much success at all.

Who else? Bubba, maybe. DJ, maybe. Who is a star?
Click to expand...

therein lies the problem. without names, you'll lack viewers.
 
So then who are the Tour stars as you see them? When I refer to stars, these are guys that make it fun to watch on Sunday. The guys I mentioned do that for a great many. And I am using the forum as my gage. They guy leading the FedEx points, not so much.

It
JB said:
Im not sure I go with that part of it. I dont think its his absence. He has been there, just not playing well outside of select tournies last year. I would argue that half that are on that list are not even names the casual viewer would recognize if they came in their home and robbed them. Jason Dufner is not a star in my opinion. Spieth might be one one day, but he is not a star yet. Keegan Bradley is not a star.

They are stars to us, the golf fan, just as Davis Love III was, Steve Stricker was, Luke Donald was, Lee Westwood was. None of those guys are stars of a sport though.

Heck the Adam Scott on Parks & Rec might be a bigger star than the Adam Scott the golfer in the US.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top