The Official 2013-2014 NBA Thread

[Canadan]

I think that LeBron is more valuable to a team than KD would be. LeBron is head and shoulders the best player in the NBA. KD played great this year and he deserved the MVP, but LeBron is the better player. With that said:

I think LeBron would improve the Thunder by about 5 wins over KD. I think OKC would have at least been the 1 seed with LeBron instead of Durant.
The Heat would probably have a handful of fewer wins with KD also instead of LeBron an would have stayed as the 2 seed in the East.

maybe in the regular season. If LBJ is anything like he was when he played in Ohio (and I assume he hasn't change a bit), he would demand the entire offense be built around him, and then crumble in the playoffs when the games became important.

I just watched KDs speech and it was awesome. He talked about loving the game, spoke about being humbled by the game, and then interacted with his entire team talking about their relationships and how each one of them pushed him to be better. You can call lebron the best player in basketball all you want, he'll never be painted as much of a team-first guy to me.

"Basketball is just a platform in order for me to inspire people ~ Durant" --- Could you imagine if even 10% of professional athletes lived by this attitude? incredible.

 

[Jman]

Its why KD is maybe the most likeable athlete out there right now, its not a schtick. That quote blew me away, you don't hear athletes talk like that anymore.

The whole speech was awesome.

 

[Canadan]

lbj couldn't even give that kind of speech if you paid him.

 

[Tadashi70]

lbj couldn't even give that kind of speech if you paid him.

Why? The guys has a better grasp on the English language than most. Durant acts like he has it rough

 

[Canadan]

Why? The guys has a better grasp on the English language than most. Durant acts like he has it rough

Because I don't think he has the capacity to put others ahead of himself in the spotlight.

Oh, plus I hate him -- so there's that hahahaha

 

[Jank]

maybe in the regular season. If LBJ is anything like he was when he played in Ohio (and I assume he hasn't change a bit), he would demand the entire offense be built around him, and then crumble in the playoffs when the games became important.

I just watched KDs speech and it was awesome. He talked about loving the game, spoke about being humbled by the game, and then interacted with his entire team talking about their relationships and how each one of them pushed him to be better. You can call lebron the best player in basketball all you want, he'll never be painted as much of a team-first guy to me.

"Basketball is just a platform in order for me to inspire people ~ Durant" --- Could you imagine if even 10% of professional athletes lived by this attitude? incredible.

That's the thing though, ability on the court and value to a team on the court is not an inspiration and being humbled thing. LeBron is one of the greatest playoff performers in NBA history and him "crumbling" in the playoffs could be due to Mo Williams and an old Antawn Jamison being the next best players on his team. LeBron never had a Westbrook-type sidekick in Cleveland, and now that he has talent around him, his teams have won 2 out of 3 titles and have 3 straight conference championships.

Also, I don't see how LeBron is any less of a team player than Durant. His on-court attitude towards his current teammates just shows how much he cares for his team, in my opinion. Sure, LeBron may not be as humble in the limelight, but I couldn't care less about that. That does not make you a more talented player. LeBron is clearly the better/most valuable player between the two, which is no knock against KD, because he is clearly an amazing player as well.

 

[Tadashi70]

Because I don't think he has the capacity to put others ahead of himself in the spotlight.

Oh, plus I hate him -- so there's that hahahaha

Really, I don't see that at all. You need to let his business decision go. You Ohio folks hold some crazy grudges

 

[Philly Golf Guy]

I agree that the KD speech was classy and what you like to see out of professional athletes.

As for LBJ, I used to openly dislike him, but he has seemed to mature and has become active in social issues that interest him. Nothing wrong with that.

As for MVP, KD earned it this season. OKC is in the much tougher western conference, has to deal with a semi competent coach and a whiny me first guard who doesn't realize he has one of the most dynamic scorers ever on his team and was still able to keep his team as one of the top powers in the league for the season.

 

[Canadan]

That's the thing though, ability on the court and value to a team on the court is not an inspiration and being humbled thing. LeBron is one of the greatest playoff performers in NBA history and him "crumbling" in the playoffs could be due to Mo Williams and an old Antawn Jamison being the next best players on his team. LeBron never had a Westbrook-type sidekick in Cleveland, and now that he has talent around him, his teams have won 2 out of 3 titles and have 3 straight conference championships.

Also, I don't see how LeBron is any less of a team player than Durant. His on-court attitude towards his current teammates just shows how much he cares for his team, in my opinion. Sure, LeBron may not be as humble in the limelight, but I couldn't care less about that. That does not make you a more talented player. LeBron is clearly the better/most valuable player between the two, which is no knock against KD, because he is clearly an amazing player as well.

Joining an all-star cast on Miami won LeBron championships, not his capacity to be a leader on court. When you build an entire offense around a player, and that player crumbles in the playoffs (and I assure you he crumbled in Cleveland), you're bound to lose.

I'm intrigued that you say lebron is "clearly" the better player and more valuable player, yet 119 votes that matter to 6 disagree with you.

I'll give you most talented. That dude is stupid talented.

 

[Philly Golf Guy]

Also, I agree LBJ is all world talent, but am struggling on agreeing he's one of the best playoff performers ever. I don't even think he breaks the top 20 yet.

 

[Jank]

Joining an all-star cast on Miami won LeBron championships, not his capacity to be a leader on court. When you build an entire offense around a player, and that player crumbles in the playoffs (and I assure you he crumbled in Cleveland), you're bound to lose.

I'm intrigued that you say lebron is "clearly" the better player and more valuable player, yet 119 votes that matter to 6 disagree with you.

I'll give you most talented. That dude is stupid talented.

If you want to base it just on MVPs, then there is no argument. Lebron has 4 and Durant has 1. If you want to base it on this year's MVP voting, then you'd agree that Blake Griffin is the 3rd best player in the NBA, right?

It's not Lebron's fault that Cleveland was incapable of surrounding him with decent players like Sam Presti has been able to do with Durant. I don't get the stigma that an athlete should stay with one team his whole career and suffer through having a poorly run front office. There are contracts for a reason. LeBron didn't demand a trade and he left after his contract was up, as he was signed/traded to Miami. Also, WS/48 shows Lebron as the 2nd best playoff player of all time, behind Jordan. It's not the best stat, but it does a pretty good job of showing who are the best players.

 

[Canadan]

If Cleveland was so incompetent, how did they win so many games? And why then did the results change solely when lebron stopped performing in each given year?

On top of that, if the dude demands the ball every time they take it up court, and takes a bad shot and misses, what good does surrounding him with talent do?

I assure you, all of these things happened during the playoffs during his Cleveland years. The only thing that changed during that time was his ability to perform.

 

[Philly Golf Guy]

If you want to base it just on MVPs, then there is no argument. Lebron has 4 and Durant has 1. If you want to base it on this year's MVP voting, then you'd agree that Blake Griffin is the 3rd best player in the NBA, right?

It's not Lebron's fault that Cleveland was incapable of surrounding him with decent players like Sam Presti has been able to do with Durant. I don't get the stigma that an athlete should stay with one team his whole career and suffer through having a poorly run front office. There are contracts for a reason. LeBron didn't demand a trade and he left after his contract was up, as he was signed/traded to Miami. Also, WS/48 shows Lebron as the 2nd best playoff player of all time, behind Jordan. It's not the best stat, but it does a pretty good job of showing who are the best players.

Those stats account for LBJ's numbers when he's plowing through crap team after crap team in the east, like this year with the Bobcats and Nets. He's padding his stats in those rounds, but then you look at the Pacers series last year which they almost lost, the finals against DAL, which he lost, the poor performances in CLE, etc. and you get a clearer picture that he is not exactly the most clutch playoff player.

I'm one of those that would have liked to see Lebron stay in CLE. Eventually, he would have started winning championships there with some decent team mates (see Irving). Instead, he virtually admitted he needed more help to win a title, so went to MIA and played second fiddle to Wade until the end of last year. I just don't like to see players of that caliber switch to team after team looking for a championship. It's the reason D. Rose wasn't all that excited to swoon LBJ to the Bulls; he views it as his team and saw LBJ as too much of a distraction (obviously that could have worked out better for him).

And MVP voting is who is the most valuable to their team, not who is the best or who has the most talent. Blake Griffin was definitely the most valuable player on the Clippers. Look at his stats, look how he improved from last season and look how he fits in with the other players on the team. When he is not playing, they are at an extreme disadvantage.

 

[Jank]

If Cleveland was so incompetent, how did they win so many games? And why then did the results change solely when lebron stopped performing in each given year?

On top of that, if the dude demands the ball every time they take it up court, and takes a bad shot and misses, what good does surrounding him with talent do?

I assure you, all of these things happened during the playoffs during his Cleveland years. The only thing that changed during that time was his ability to perform.

The same way OKC has won all of these games the last few years and not won a title, yet. The playoffs are different. You are playing elite talent every game instead of every other game like in the regular season. LeBron demands the ball because he is the best player on the floor. He is the best at every position on his team. He would not willingly take a backseat to a lesser player like Durant has often done with Westbrook. That does not make him a poor teammate; it makes him competitive.

If you want to talk about taking bad shots and misses, Durant's eFG% has been less in the playoffs than it has in the regular season every year he has been in the playoffs except for 1 (4 years out of 5). Lebron's eFG% has been less in the playoffs vs the regular season 33% (6 years out of 9) of the time (and one of those years was because Lebron had an eFG% over .600). Your playoff numbers will simply not be as good as regular season numbers because, again, you are facing the best of the best every night out. 77% of Lebron's playoff years has had an eFG% over .500 (with 2 years at .550 or higher). 60% of Durant's playoff years have had an eFG% over .500 (with 1 year at .550 or higher).

 

[Jank]

Those stats account for LBJ's numbers when he's plowing through crap team after crap team in the east, like this year with the Bobcats and Nets. He's padding his stats in those rounds, but then you look at the Pacers series last year which they almost lost, the finals against DAL, which he lost, the poor performances in CLE, etc. and you get a clearer picture that he is not exactly the most clutch playoff player.

I'm one of those that would have liked to see Lebron stay in CLE. Eventually, he would have started winning championships there with some decent team mates (see Irving). Instead, he virtually admitted he needed more help to win a title, so went to MIA and played second fiddle to Wade until the end of last year.

CLE would not have had the number 1 pick if LeBron was still on the Cavs. I highly doubt the Clippers would have made that trade (as Irving was drafted with their pick) if the teams were the same. Lebron has had higher WS than Wade every year he has been in Miami. Hardly second fiddle material. Hell, even Jordan didn't win a title every year. To expect Lebron to do the same is insane.

 

[Canadan]

What are lebron's percentages NOT on Miami? Ugly'ish?

 

[Jman]

And now I remember why I avoid the NBA thread. Haha

 

[Jank]

What are lebron's percentages NOT on Miami? Ugly'ish?

Percentages for what? I counted all of his playoff years, just like with Durant.

 

[Miller Time]

Because I don't think he has the capacity to put others ahead of himself in the spotlight.

Oh, plus I hate him -- so there's that hahahaha

So why join DWade and Bosh in Miami? Anyone with an ego wouldn't do that. He wanted to win. He absolutely carried those garbage Cleveland teams as far as they could go.

If Cleveland was so incompetent, how did they win so many games? And why then did the results change solely when lebron stopped performing in each given year?

On top of that, if the dude demands the ball every time they take it up court, and takes a bad shot and misses, what good does surrounding him with talent do?

I assure you, all of these things happened during the playoffs during his Cleveland years. The only thing that changed during that time was his ability to perform.

Yeah he totally didn't perform when he scored the final 20+ points against the Pistons that year. Or that buzzer beater against Orlando in the playoffs. Or the time he dunked on the entire Celtics roster. Great teams win NBA championships. Cleveland had a great player, never a great team.

 

[Jank]

Also, how many NBA teams have won a title with just 1 star caliber player? 93-94 Rockets, 10-11 Mavs, 03-04 Pistons are all I can think of in recent memory.

 

[Canadan]

So why join DWade and Bosh in Miami? Anyone with an ego wouldn't do that. He wanted to win. He absolutely carried those garbage Cleveland teams as far as they could go.

You're right. Someone with an ego would have an ESPN press conference to determine where he would gooooooh wait!!!!! hahahaha

Yeah he totally didn't perform when he scored the final 20+ points against the Pistons that year. Or that buzzer beater against Orlando in the playoffs. Or the time he dunked on the entire Celtics roster. Great teams win NBA championships. Cleveland had a great player, never a great team.

He played some great games while in Cleveland, but each year, it always fell on his performance as to whether they were successful. Most teams were built with a few guys who could shoot from the perimeter and someone who could grab rebounds. 1 on 1 and even 1 on 2, lebron always had options.

 

[Philly Golf Guy]

CLE would not have had the number 1 pick if LeBron was still on the Cavs. I highly doubt the Clippers would have made that trade (as Irving was drafted with their pick) if the teams were the same. Lebron has had higher WS than Wade every year he has been in Miami. Hardly second fiddle material. Hell, even Jordan didn't win a title every year. To expect Lebron to do the same is insane.

Yeah I wasn't sure where that Irving pick came from, so I'd agree with you they wouldn't be playing together in CLE. Still though, you had a motivated owner and it was a matter of time before he had the pieces to finally get a ring. I don't know what WS is, but there were a ton of articles on whether MIA was Lebron or Wade's teams and look at who was taking the last shot in those close playoff games in the DAL finals, even last year up until the finals. At that point, LBJ seemed to take things over. In no way, shape for form did LBJ simply show up on the first day and instantly become the leader of the team. It was clearly a process.

And I don't expect LBJ to win a title every year. I just think he took the easy road of going to MIA. I would have loved for him to stay in CLE, turn that city into a basketball dynasty like Jordan did with the Bulls and give back to the area he grew up in. Now he's winning titles for a fan base that will stop going to games when they start to fade for the most part and will be mentioned in the same breath as Wade and Bosh any time these championships are talked about.

 

[Miller Time]

You're right. Someone with an ego would have an ESPN press conference to determine where he would gooooooh wait!!!!! hahahaha



He played some great games while in Cleveland, but each year, it always fell on his performance as to whether they were successful. Most teams were built with a few guys who could shoot from the perimeter and someone who could grab rebounds. 1 on 1 and even 1 on 2, lebron always had options.

The Decision was awful. No doubt.

So his options were what? Varejao? Gibson? Big Z? Mo Williams? It fell on LBJ's performance because the teams were not good without him.

 

[Jank]

You're right. Someone with an ego would have an ESPN press conference to determine where he would gooooooh wait!!!!! hahahaha

Granted, The Decision was an awful idea, but it did raise more than $3 million for charity.

 

[Canadan]

The Decision was awful. No doubt.

So his options were what? Varejao? Gibson? Big Z? Mo Williams? It fell on LBJ's performance because the teams were not good without him.

Most of those guys were competent enough to take shots off a pass from lebron. Based on his abilities, I still think he's an incredible gifted passer -- But when it got down to the wire I always felt he was more inclined to retain the ball and make mistakes on his own rather than bring in his teammates.

Let's be honest. Even if the options were Daniel Gibson and Mo for 3s, they were both more than capable of hitting the shots. Anyone in the NBA can hit a certain type of shot if the pass gives them space, and these guys all proved that throughout the regular season.

I find it funny that as talented as he was, nobody ever seemed interested in joining him in Cleveland... Maybe people don't like the city? The weather? The fans were always impressive while lebron was there, and the atmosphere was pretty electric at times, especially during the playoffs.