Golf 'N Gator
Formally HoosierGolfer
I agree. I still say it should be considered ground under repair. Stupid rule that needs changed but never will be.
Pros playing from divots in fairway
I agree. I still say it should be considered ground under repair. Stupid rule that needs changed but never will be.
I don't think its a bad rule. For the most part you go many many rounds before you happen to land in a fairway divot. It's not always fair but that's golf. It knows not who you are and cares not.
In my casual rounds it just depends. Sometimes I just roll them out and sometimes I like the challenge of playing them down.
In my casual rounds it just depends. Sometimes I just roll them out and sometimes I like the challenge of playing them down.
I only wind up in a divot a few times each year and it really doesn't bother me. The course conditions are so much better today compared to 30 years ago that many of the lies I would get in the middle of the fairway 30 years ago would be ground under repair on the PGA Tour today.
What did bother me and used to happen often were careless golfers leaving spike marks and the rule that you can't fix a spike mark until after you've holesd out. Before metal spikes were outlawed I missed hundreds of short putts because of a spike mark. I can't remember the last time I missed a green because of having to hit out of a divot.
What did bother me and used to happen often were careless golfers leaving spike marks and the rule that you can't fix a spike mark until after you've holesd out. Before metal spikes were outlawed I missed hundreds of short putts because of a spike mark. I can't remember the last time I missed a green because of having to hit out of a divot.
Fourputt
Head Rules Official
I play everything down, or I count the penalty for an unplayable lie. If I don't try, I don't learn to play. Trouble shots are an integral part of the game. Playing from a divot hole happens so rarely that it's hardly worth a 4 page discussion.
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rickterp
Active member
I'm surprised most in this thread don't hit out of divots more often. Maybe it's because I miss in the same places most hacks do and I play mostly muni golf, but I find myself in divots at least one to two times each round. I don't enjoy it but I've learned to deal with it pretty well. Steep downhill lies, now those still give me problems.
Tampa Golfer
New member
yet the tour still goes to a lift clean and place rule when they have had some rain for a few days - kind of contradictory by the tour to penalize a player for a perfect shot down the middle, but allow them to move the ball around when the course is wet.......
Of course someone who "plays it as it lies" takes free drops from ground repair. The rules allow them to do so. But no, a divot is not ground under repair, whether people think it should be or not.
In a casual round, do as you please.
Luck of the draw goes both ways. If divots were changed to be ground under repair, would you be in favor of modifying the rules such that if your ball is headed into the trees and bounces out, you have to throw it back in the woods? Why should luck of the draw on a poorly struck shot come into play?
Chickopher
New member
I always play it as it lies. To be honest, I don't always hit it any better from the fairway than from the divot.
JRod
Well-known member
Wow you have the worst luck ever. I can count on two hands how many times I've been in a divot in twenty years of golf.
Rub of the green, play it as it lies. The only time I haven't was during a casual round with an injured wrist.
Before it closed, the local range had a ragged grass area to hit from. Hardly anyone hit from there because even the mowed areas were uneven, gouged and rough-like. I used that area to practice hitting out of unfortunate lies.
Truth is, hitting into a divot is only considered unfair by those who haven't practiced the proper technique to effectively hit from them. While they may never offer the confidence of a pristine fairway lie, with practice they're nothing to fear nor certainly be considered unfair.
Unfortunate? Heck yeah, always!
Before it closed, the local range had a ragged grass area to hit from. Hardly anyone hit from there because even the mowed areas were uneven, gouged and rough-like. I used that area to practice hitting out of unfortunate lies.
Truth is, hitting into a divot is only considered unfair by those who haven't practiced the proper technique to effectively hit from them. While they may never offer the confidence of a pristine fairway lie, with practice they're nothing to fear nor certainly be considered unfair.
Unfortunate? Heck yeah, always!
rickterp
Active member
I mean I'm not talking trenches, but it is something I run into a fair amount. I need to start missing in other spots!
This is one of the rules that has been debated for years. It is not right that you stripe one down the fairway and it ends up in a divot. You should be able to move it out IMO. They fill the divots but you still have to hit it out of the divot mix.
I was playing in a PAT and a player in my group landed in one after he hit the middle of the fairway and he asked me "do you mind if I move this out of the divot?" Uhhhh ... no .... we are playing it down ... as it lies. :confused2:
Fourputt
Head Rules Official
Nothing contradictory about it. The Rules of Golf allow for invoking the authorized Preferred Lies local rule when unusual conditions warrant it.
The rules do not allow for any local rule involving divots. Divots and divot holes are a normal condition of any golf course, and as such are not deserving of any special treatment.
golfinFF
Active member
I play it but don't like it.
If I land on a sprinkler head I get to move it, land on a yardage marker I get to move it, cart path that I shouldn't have came close to yep move it.
Some ridiculously deep trench someone didn't bother fixing nope I have to play out of it- makes as much sense as if you weren't allowed to fix the pitch mark someone didn't fix that's on your line.
If I land on a sprinkler head I get to move it, land on a yardage marker I get to move it, cart path that I shouldn't have came close to yep move it.
Some ridiculously deep trench someone didn't bother fixing nope I have to play out of it- makes as much sense as if you weren't allowed to fix the pitch mark someone didn't fix that's on your line.
dankil13
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We play the ball down in season or as long as the fairways aren't aerated, but the rule just seems silly especially when tour pros are playing for millions of dollars. But your analogy makes little sense. You are supposed to hit the ball in the fairway - not the woods, the thick rough or a bunker. Luck of the draw always comes into play when you hit it to those areas (poor lie in the rough, plugged lie in the bunker, right behind a tree with no swing, etc). The safe haven is the fairway and the green. You shouldn't be punished because someone didn't properly replace/fill a divot. If that's the case then maybe we should not allow players to fix ball marks on greens that aren't their own.
In my opinion, the reason it's a rule is because it would be impossible to define what is a divot. Is a filled divot a divot? Is a halfway-filled divot a divot? Is a divot with the turf back in it a divot? Does the turf have to have had time to reattach?
If my analogy makes no sense, that's fine, I can come up with others. The point though was that there's good luck and bad luck that happens, both in the rough and the fairway. It makes no sense to say that simply because your ball hit the fairway you are always entitled to a good lie.
Castor Hades
New member
This is my opinion as well, every time this topic is up for discussion, this is my question as well.
I don't like hitting from a divot, and I'd be happy to get a relief, but I don't and that's ok.
JRod
Well-known member
I'm ignorant here. Sprinkler heads are normal conditions of any golf course and their was a local rule in place for the open involving them. What's different?
Fourputt
Head Rules Official
Sprinklers are obstructions. All obstructions are covered under Rule 24. Divot holes (divots are the piece of cut turf that was removed from a divot hole) are not obstructions. They are not abnormal ground. They are a common and normal feature of any golf course anywhere in the world.
A sprinkler is always a sprinkler. It's appearance and status never changes. A divot hole gradually grows back until it can't really be identified as such. How far does it have to grow in before it no longer qualifies for relief? Are you going to try and create a relief allowance for every blemish on the course? If it happens to you more than twice a year then you have just about the worst luck of anyone I know. That or the players on your course need some training in basic etiquette.
I played one of the busiest courses in the Denver area fro 35 years, and even after I retired and played 70-100 rounds a year, I still can't remember the last time I played from a divot there. I'm sure I did happen on rare occasions, but I just never worried about it. I just played the shot.
I always play it as it lies. Sucks when it happens, but I can only recall it happening to me once in the past year, so it's really not a big deal.
JRod
Well-known member
I understand that and agree I'm just curious as to why they found it necessary to implement a local rule pertaining to them at the open? You used it as an example that's why I ask.
You almost sound like you're getting defensive about it. I agree with playing the ball as it lies.
ATLGolfer
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JRod
Well-known member
Bluetooth extreme.
Flooder
Active member
I do not "play it as it lies". This is not only the dumbest rule in golf; it's the dumbest rule in all of sport! You hit it perfect, but because the last guy left a crater you're F'd. That's just ridiculous. So is playing from a footprint in a bunker cause the last guy didn't rake or a tractor rut in the fairway cause it's wet. If I hit it in the rough I deserve what I get and try to play it as such. If I hit it where I was supposed to, or in a bunker, I expect a "standard" lie.
Much of this is due to poor course maintenance compared to where the pros play, and some is due to what I believe ought to be the rules for amateur, casual play. Decent lies, stroke and distance on OB shots, move the ball equidistant from the hole if the green is junk, etc. The game is hard enough without playing thru garbage conditions created by sub-standard course care when you've hit it where you were supposed to.
* Of course, were I competing with someone, I would honor the rules but otherwise, no way.
Much of this is due to poor course maintenance compared to where the pros play, and some is due to what I believe ought to be the rules for amateur, casual play. Decent lies, stroke and distance on OB shots, move the ball equidistant from the hole if the green is junk, etc. The game is hard enough without playing thru garbage conditions created by sub-standard course care when you've hit it where you were supposed to.
* Of course, were I competing with someone, I would honor the rules but otherwise, no way.
staticline
New member
The USOpen created the local rule related to sprinkler head relief because of course conditions and an expectation that, because of the way the grass was around the greens, the game would be played more "on the ground" than "through the air", which is very similar to golf played in Great Britain, where sprinkler head relief is a permanent rule. Because the game around the greeen was expected to be played "on the ground" than the man made sprinkler head are more like to come into play.
Under conditions we are used to seeing, most US Opens have an over abundance of grass, which allows (or requires) that a ball near the green still be played "in the air".