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Overthinking Of Shafts

Nippon Shafts
flog2424 said:
I think it is all over thinking until you find that shaft that outperforms all others. I think everyone, if taking custom fitting seriously with no thoughts on what they are swinging can find this combo. The issue comes with people constantly wanting to change or not being satisfied 100% of the time with results. I have found that certain characteristics just work within my swing while other shafts just produce awful results
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You also have an extremely repeatable swing though, it does make a difference.
 
I know I overthink shafts, and need to focus more on my swing than the equipment. If I could get a more repeatable swing, I could make my equipment work better for me, than trying to get my swing to work for the equipment.
 
I think we all over think, but as the same time we're in a time where companies continuously bombard us with 'optimal' numbers. We base our selection on those few perfect swings as oppose to our miss because of these numbers.

I don't care if a shaft is stock or not, I believe in finding a shaft and head combo that optimizes my great swings, as well as masking my misses as much as possible.

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Jman said:
You also have an extremely repeatable swing though, it does make a difference.
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This I also agree with


Proud Member of #TeamParadise
 
I don't know if I overthink my shaft selection, but it's something I now think about as opposed to last season when I did not. I would never dismiss a stock offering though, as I'm confident that the stock shaft has been selected by the OEM for a reason.

As for believing a shaft will impact my game despite not having a repeatable swing, the answer is yes. Because it has. My SLDR is the best example, as the shaft I have in it now gives me much better results than I saw with a number of other shafts I hit with it. And my irons, which have much better shafts for me than the stock offering, IMO make those clubs an infinitely better fit.

But what I'm wondering is for most of us without a repeatable swing, what should we do? I'm genuinely curious how we should think about shafts. Just use the stock offering? Something else? I don't know if there's a good answer to this, but I've always thought that I generally have the same swing profile and speed, so if there is a shaft out there that generally fits my swing, I would like that shaft in my club as opposed to one that is and may never be a good fit.

I will say I don't pay attention to a shaft as much as I used to. I used to be terrified of hitting stiff steel shafts and now realize it's not really a factor for me. Same with shaft flex between regular and stiff. I don't really see that much of a difference in the clubs I hit between those flexes.
 
I am a firm believer that the shaft is the engine that drives the club. I like to think that I have a fairly repeatable swing and I can tell right away when a shaft works or doesn't work for me. That being said I also believe that their is a tendency to overthink shaft selection. All the different weights, flex's, launch and spin rates certainly makes the marketplace more confusing as ever.
 
I definitely do not over think shafts. I use stock on everything, and honestly don't ever see that changing. Outside of flex, I don't think about shafts at all really.
 
I'm with Pete, I overthink everything now...clubheads, shafts, you name it. The blessing and curse of a THPer.
 
for me i don't know if i over think it as much as i like to have a certain feel with a shaft.... for example last years Xtreme stock offering was the Black Tie and i absolutely hated it because it was so stiff i could not feel where the club head was in relation to my swing. the same goes for the opposite when its to whippy, and i tend to lose those balls right. i can get a decent flight with almost any shaft and i have a few options with after markets that i will always keep so i have options to change trajectory if that ever becomes an issue. but if it feels good i'll play it to me that the most important and what i think about most when deciding what shaft i want to play.
 
I've learned a lot, over the past year, enough to realize that I can't "self fit" myself. I do trust what a reputable fitter recommends for me and if that means he wants to put an after market shaft over a stock shaft into a club, then I am going to trust him on that. That being said, after being fit this year, just under half of my "club" selections went with stock setups and wedges could have been stock.

I tend to gravitate towards feel, and will take something I feel comfortable with, with slightly less "ideal" numbers than the "ideal super number maximizer" shaft. Comfortability is a huge part of this sport, IMO and if you aren't comfortable with it, performance is going to suffer.
 
Canadan said:
I'm not sure I have a fair personal opinion on this, because I think I have a fairly repeatable swing, and believe (and have seen) large variances in flight based on different shafts. What I will definitely agree on, is that golfers should start with the head and work their way to the shaft AFTER that. I can do some strange, strange stuff with a high spin/high launch driver head.

To the shaft and the characteristics involved, I wonder how much, at least on a testing side, is factored based on altered swings. Someone sees X + heavy and immediately goes after it or swings down hard on the ball. I find it tough to get a baseline on a few guys I play with because when we demo clubs, their swing alters to try and match or defeat the shaft characteristics.
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I'd say, from hitting various drivers of yours, that I agree with you statement about changing ones swing. My mind takes over and I make a different swing compared to when I hit my driver.

I've spent plenty of time pondering shafts. Luckily I've found a combination that works well for me. However, I never stop pondering!
 
I have tried a few to find what works for my average swing with driver and have tried numerous in irons to find what I like the feel of and produces good results on an average swing.

I have never dismissed the stock offerings but I know certain ones just don't work with out adjusting my swing to fit them. This brings up a point you and Canadan mention some people will change their swing if the know what shaft they are hitting, some can feel the difference and will change their swing unconsciously do to feel.

I have done blind shaft testing and it take me only a couple swing to make my swing adjust to the shaft to get good numbers/flight. The difference ultimately comes down to SS and distance when blind testing on a monitor as well as what shaft I can swing naturally and produce good results.

My swing is not Iron Byron/Tadashi/Canadan or several others repeatable so I fit to and average to better swing and I know when I make those swings, as no shaft will correct my miss, limit the average miss yes but will not get rid of it.

This weekend proved to me that I found shafts in both flex, bend pattern and weight that work for me. I hit the ball like never before consistency wise and put up super solid scores with next to no putting game. My tinkering and thinking is done for now as I have what works for me as a player that doesn't sit on the OEM bell curve for equipment.
 
Interesting question. For the active and engaged golfer community, i.e. THP'ers, I would say you are probably correct that most here over think it; I know I do. That said, it can work itself out. Through tinkering all Spring and into Summer, I've found that I can't feel the club as well in the back swing with light weight shafts, which only enables my hard snatch down from the top and a vicious OTT move. With a heavier shaft, I tend to drop the club on plane more often and I get better results. That is just me though, and I certainly don't have a repeatable swing. It's more like repeatable-ish.

My brother, who is a a much more consistent player than I and has a fairly repeatable swing, recently switched drivers from an Cleveland SL290 with the stock C.Kua 59S to a Classic XL Custom with the 6M3 in X flex. His first round with the new set up was with me on Sunday without any range time. Throwing out his bad swings, which he had a couple early, he saw a much better ball flight with a piercing trajectory and a surprising increase in roll out with the black tie in comparison to his SL290. He also has an aggressive transition down from the top so it really paired well with his swing. Club head speed is probably 105-115 depending on the day for him. I don't foresee him changing drivers anytime soon.

So I guess my answer is I have no idea :confused2:
 
Enthusiasts that frequent a forum like this will tend to overthink everything. I would imagine it's the same on forums for other passions (ex: car enthusiasts). Lots of us overthink small details like wedge grinds, adjustable weight settings, and number of wraps under a grip, so it's natural that people would overthink shafts.

With respect to shafts on their own, I think that in the past few years, the amount of options that are available to consumers have expanded significantly and led to overthinking by some people. Probably 5-10 years ago, the only choice for a lot of people was steel vs. graphite in irons and light weight graphite vs. heavy weight graphite in drivers. Now there are multiple weight ranges in steel and graphite for irons, and even more options in the driver/fairway wood shaft category. It can be overwhelming if you let it get to that. To that end, it's why going to a good fitter for clubs is even more important nowadays so that a player can figure out what type of shafts fits their game the best instead of trying to guess on their own.

One other thing: even though people don't have repeatable swings all the time, I think that most players are able to make the same general swing when they hit the ball well, and they can be fit into shafts based on those good swings. For example, I know that my good swing is generally a little bit in-to-out and shallow, so a shaft/club fitting should be built around that type of swing.
 
Hmmm very interesting thoughts JB. I think I used to overthink shafts. I do believe my swing has become more repeatable and I do see a difference in my ball flight with my Diamana than I do with a higher launching shaft. I do not believe this was the case a few years back. I was changing my swing every month every time a flaw crept in.
 
I think that for many people on here it is overthought. But by me, no. Mainly because I know my limitations and I know I don't know enough about the topic to get too caught up in it and I know that my swing is not repeatable enough to get caught up in it. That doesn't mean that I haven't thought about it, but then I start raising too many questions in my mind and back off.

Also, and I think this is key and could be a lesson learned for most on here, when we did the Taylormade Ultimate Testing V1.0 with the speedblades, Bob with Taylormade was there. After we had all hit the speedblades and collected some data from them we had a chance to hit the newly released SLDR driver. Bob made a point of watching a few swings and collecting data and NOT telling people what changes he was making or what shaft he was putting in. His reason was just as has been touched on in this thread. When people say, okay he's put this brand shaft with this flex in, now they start to modify their swing and their thought process to match the equipment. When you don't know what changes were made, you can't mentally try to change anything to make up for it. I think some of the results from him doing this surprised some people.

I recently went in for a fitting for a 3wood and a driver and I told my fitter that was the methodology that I wanted to use. I went in thinking I was going to walk out with a new Big Bertha or SLDR. When everything was said and done I hit several balls at the range AND in front of a trackman at the same time so I was able to see the ball flight on the range and get the scientific data as well with all of the numbers. After changing heads and shafts I actually ended up walking out with a X2 Hot Driver and 4 wood instead of a 3 wood.

So, in summary, I think that they key is to find a reputable fitter. Let them do the work and you stay out of the process (In other words let the fitter find the shaft/head/grip combo) and let the results speak for themselves. If you stay out of your own way, I think that you will be happier with the results. Now this obviously applies mostly to the 10 and above handicaps probably. If you are single digit or scratch or better, you probably have a swing that is repeatable and have some knowledge AND skillset to back up your thought process.
 
I think I over think but I am a believer in finding what works bad sticking with it. I currently play the black tie. Will it be in my next driver? I don't know but I know most of us don't need 400 dollar shafts when there are affordable offers out there.
 
I started to. Bought a Black Tie shaft for my BBA and gamed it for a few weeks. The misses actually became very penal for me. Then the ferrule broke and I went back to the stock shaft while they fixed the Black Tie. I hit the stock offering (which I talked a bunch of crap on) a ton better than the Black Tie. I will add that my current Black Tie doesn't feel anything like my old Black Tie though so that may play a part. It could certainly be the head when comparing the RFX to the BBA. I can literally feel a difference between the two.

In my new 3Deep, I went with stock because it felt good and the results showed on the course. I have to think that major companies put A LOT of time and money into the best shaft for their head that will work for the majority of people. Since my swing is pretty repeatable, I know it is me and not the club that causes problems most of the time (my buddy's senior flex was really hard to hit.)
 
As someone with a fairly repeatable swing I feel like I can see and feel the differences in the shafts. I have hit some stock shafts that worked, and some stock shafts that didn't. I don't think I really over think the shaft anymore. I know my game pretty well, and have figured out what style of shaft works for me best and thats a mid/mid. Will I try something outside of that or something that tweens that? Sure I will. But I will know within a couple of swings if its going to be good or not.

I will agree that someone who is tinkering and does not have a repeatable swing is setting themselves up for failure is a big way. Its just a bad way to go and good way to really get lost and end up worse off than you started. I feel like if your swing is not repeatable, than you need to start at the head be fit to a head first and then fit to the shaft. Thats where its the job of the fitter to determine if you should be shaft fit or head fit. I would like to think that a good fitter could figure that out fairly quickly.
 
I honestly never used to think about shafts until reading the threads on here and peoples signatures - you can definitely get caught up in it for sure.

Also, the amount of marketing these days behind shaft companies is much higher than in the past.....

At the end of the day, I feel like you can never just take a driver off the rack and use it without it being "fitted" on an LM or with the help of a master club builder....things are quite different compared to the past.
 
I agree, the market is just so oversaturated with MANY shafts that are nearly identical. There are so many different weight/flex/kick point combos that you could spend weeks trying out all of the possibilities (and maybe notice marginal difference if you are an amateur like me).
 
JB,

My fitting in Florida really opened my eyes to what works best. Mark the fitter if he could would have every sticker off each shaft. I really did my best to not look and at the end of the day. DGS300s for me were above and beyond the best for me. I think before my ego would have let me say nah lets go Project X or KBS but at the end of the day checking my ego allowed me to get the best results necessary. But at the end day this really showed how not looking at everything would make difference.
 
I too am guilty of over thinking at times but I can say that I have had several different sets that I have tried and compared steel to graphite in different brand and makes of irons. In these try out periods I have found some clubs that were pitiful, lack of control, distance and some too stiff too the point of making me wonder how they could be a regular flex. So yes, there can be too much thought but testing and trying a set before deciding to keep them is needed IMO.
 
Overthink? Probably. However I do know at least with my swing different shafts in the same head produce very different results.
 
I do not over think shafts at all, I have 1 that I have played for a long long time and keeping it simple is the best thing for me. I've tried just about everything out there and have not found anything to replace my S-300.

Most would be fine with stock offerings.
 
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