Tiger vs Nicklaus - By Chamblee

[Golf 'N Gator]

Interesting read, but I'm in the camp that says Tiger will not break Jack's record. Two totally different players, from two totally different era's.

 

[Chickopher]

That is the million dollar question. In my opinion the depth of field is light year's better now than it was 30 years ago, but the top 20 is not as full of parity.

I'll have to agree with this one.

 

[iSukGolf]

Good read ... I always struggle with why there needs to be a "best" between the two ... they both have brought so much to the game of golf, and I am blessed to have seen them play (on TV) in my life time ...

We have been blessed they came along, and entertained us by showing golf at it highest level ...

 

[Chickopher]

Interesting read and a well done article.

Like others the 25% vs. 18% really stood out for me. But the other intersting fact that stood out was from major #47 for each of them - Nicklaus pulled away from Tiger in that comparison. Really speaks to the drought that Tiger has had in the majors.

The problem with comparing percentages is it doesn't mean much if you don't know the total sampling. I don't know the answer, but how many tournaments per year did each play? Total tournaments? Those are all important aspects. Personally, I think they were both the best of their times and it is truly impossible to get a fair comparison because they played against different competition. The closest you can get to a true comparison is comparing rounds on the same courses but then there is always the equipment question. Did Tiger benefit more than Jack from equipment? Jack more than Hogan? Regardless, TW should be listed with Jack and others as one of the best golfers of all time.

 

[Chickopher]

There are too many variables to compare athletes from different eras. Some will argue depth of field, parity, advancements in technology, training, etc etc etc.

All we can do is speculate. And it's fun to speculate. I will say this, I have never seen someone dominate golf like Tiger Woods did from 99-03'ish. Tiger had a killer instinct. He looked at you and basically said, "I am going to crush you, why are you even paired with me today?" And he would then proceed to do whatever he wanted on a golf course. Putting especially.

Both Woods and Nicklaus in their prime, walking down the 18th, I really believe even the Golden Bear would feel Tiger's aura of dominance.

I would say Nicklaus gets the nod based on Major wins so far. But if we're talking about a certain "prime" period, who was the best golfer in the history of the game when they were at their best? Tiger.

This will probably only be remembered by us older Gen Xers and the baby boomers, but there was definitely an aura of dominance from Jack in his prime too. Just like Tiger, it transcended the game to the fans. I didn't care a lick about golf then, no one in my family golfed and I still was a huge Nicklaus fan because he was the best.

 

[Wicked Cool Bearded Man]

Good article and good comparison. I like his answer too. "It depends."

 

[jspangs]

That was a really good article.

The 25% for TW in all events versus 18% for JN resonates with me.

I also have to think the quality of overall fields is much better now than it was 30 years ago. I could be wrong, just my gut feeling with how many different winners we have now and how the game is more accessible globally.

Hard for me to fathom ANYONE beating TW in his prime.

I agree the quality of the field is better today than 30 years ago. But I think the field 30 years ago was better than that 15 years ago, when Tiger dominated.

 

[jspangs]

Just as one could make the argument that the money of today, gives players at the top the ability to pick and choose courses tailor made for their game. There are a million arguments that people can make based on lifeless debates. The end of the day, Tom Watson has marginally shown that the game holds up over the test of generations and that as with any sport, people quickly forget the greatness of eras past in favor of what they view.

I have said this many times about Tiger. I am not taking anything from Tiger he's is the greatest of my generation. But haven't like 20+ wins come on 3-4 golf courses.

 

[zooropa]

That was a good read and I am glad he wrote that piece and did the research. As he said, this is about majors only. It is the bench mark Tiger wants to hit and is a very fair assessment. You can conjecture all you want about the depths of field but neither man has ever played the field. They play the course and won doing so. Neither had a rival in their prime and just needed to play to win. If they were off their game in majors they didn't win but they didn't lose either.

I think TW will break JN record by more than a couple and will be considered by most to be the greatest of all time. Others will point to the near misses jack had and say he is the best. Personally having watched both play I feel fortunate and look forward to TW marching after jack's well earn record.

Given he hasn't won a major in how many years, how do you think that is gong to change? Never one a major when trailing going into the final round and interestingly hasn't won after he got caught when leading going into the final round after never having lost (14-0) No way will he get 19.

 

[Tadashi70]

Given he hasn't won a major in how many years, how do you think that is gong to change? Never one a major when trailing going into the final round and interestingly hasn't won after he got caught when leading going into the final round after never having lost (14-0) No way will he get 19.

Ok...he won't win again.

 

[blugold]

That was a good read and I am glad he wrote that piece and did the research. As he said, this is about majors only. It is the bench mark Tiger wants to hit and is a very fair assessment. You can conjecture all you want about the depths of field but neither man has ever played the field. They play the course and won doing so. Neither had a rival in their prime and just needed to play to win. If they were off their game in majors they didn't win but they didn't lose either.

I think TW will break JN record by more than a couple and will be considered by most to be the greatest of all time. Others will point to the near misses jack had and say he is the best. Personally having watched both play I feel fortunate and look forward to TW marching after jack's well earn record.

Do you think Tiger's new shorter swing can get him there?

 

[Tadashi70]

Do you think Tiger's new shorter swing can get him there?

Yes I do, I have no doubt he will recapture #1 and break Jack's record. He knows how to play and only injury has held him back. Once he get the tempo of the shorter swing he will be fine.

 

[JB]

Yes I do, I have no doubt he will recapture #1 and break Jack's record. He knows how to play and only injury has held him back. Once he get the tempo of the shorter swing he will be fine.

This is quite different than what you posted in the past about the swing. Has something changed showing it?
FWIW, I have said I agree on the majors, but he has not shown me much in the Foley age to make me think otherwise outside of the courses he owns.

 

[Tadashi70]

This is quite different than what you posted in the past about the swing. Has something changed showing it?
FWIW, I have said I agree on the majors, but he has not shown me much in the Foley age to make me think otherwise outside of the courses he owns.

The version I saw at his event was different then pre-back surgery. It's similar to the swing we saw on the back 9 at Doral. Once he gets his tempo and used to new distance, I see him back at his winning ways.

 

[Six4three5]

That was a really really good read. Thanks for posting Josh. Really do hope I'm wrong in saying that Tiger will never win another major, because I would love for him to beat Jack's record and silence all the doubters.

 

[JPR1959]

The tour used to be non-exempt, so only the top 60 money winners were guaranteed a spot. I don't understand how you could say the "old" tour wasn't as good. Those guys were playing for their lives unlike today's players.

Jack was as dominant as Tiger for 15 years. Tiger is probably the best putter ever, but he has played against mental midgets his whole career. If Tiger is to be considered truly great, let him come out of the pack on Sunday and win. Like another poster said, he's only won with the lead.

I hope Tiger does not surpass Jack's record ONLY because I'll never forgive his cheating ways on and off the course.

 

[geneinnc]

The tour used to be non-exempt, so only the top 60 money winners were guaranteed a spot. I don't understand how you could say the "old" tour wasn't as good. Those guys were playing for their lives unlike today's players.

Jack was as dominant as Tiger for 15 years. Tiger is probably the best putter ever, but he has played against mental midgets his whole career. If Tiger is to be considered truly great, let him come out of the pack on Sunday and win. Like another poster said, he's only won with the lead.

I hope Tiger does not surpass Jack's record ONLY because I'll never forgive his cheating ways on and off the course.

Amen. Get ready to be labeled a hater. Jack built his career on the majors and trying to be home with the family every 3 weeks.

Woods choose to destroy his family.

 

[malemotives]

Article was a good read, thank you. Whether it was accurate or even near accurate is in the eye of the individual reader. Personally, I don't give much stock in comparing any athletes from different generations. Too many variables (in all sports and golf in particular). The courses are different the equipment is different, the opportunities to play are different, the training is different..... the list goes on. The only real common denominator is "the will to win".

 

[adamw238]

I've finally read something from Brandel that doesn't make me want to go punch someone. But then I remembered his comments about the open this week and I see the red mist. Comparison across generations are possible to measure. Different competition, equipment, course layouts, etc. I'd like just for once just I enjoy watching one of the greatest ever without debating if he is the greatest ever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Drumdog]

I read the article and quite frankly, I am tired of the comparisons.
Equipment, course layouts, travel modes, food, accommodations, trainers, doctors, medicines, hybrid grass and more are all completely different between the two generations.
No real or accurate comparison can be made, in my opinion.

They were and are 2 of the greatest golfers to play the game. Let's just leave it at that.

 

[tee one up 4 me]

The tour used to be non-exempt, so only the top 60 money winners were guaranteed a spot. I don't understand how you could say the "old" tour wasn't as good. Those guys were playing for their lives unlike today's players.

Jack was as dominant as Tiger for 15 years. Tiger is probably the best putter ever, but he has played against mental midgets his whole career. If Tiger is to be considered truly great, let him come out of the pack on Sunday and win. Like another poster said, he's only won with the lead.

I hope Tiger does not surpass Jack's record ONLY because I'll never forgive his cheating ways on and off the course.

He's human and we all make mistakes. Some worse then others. How about you get us all a pic of you walking on water.

 

[JFlores]

I always like it when someone brings up their dislike for Tiger because he cheated on his wife, what does that have to do with the game of golf. Some folks put to much emotion into it, would I cheat on my wife absolutely not do I care if someone who provides entertainment value do it, NOPE! All I care about is the product on tv, in fact I hope he marries Lyndsey Vonn cheats on her with some Perkins Waitresses and gets back to winning to Majors. Maybe that is what he needs in his golf game, a little side piece.

 

[JB]

I always like it when someone brings up their dislike for Tiger because he cheated on his wife, what does that have to do with the game of golf. Some folks put to much emotion into it, would I cheat on my wife absolutely not do I care if someone who provides entertainment value do it, NOPE! All I care about is the product on tv, in fact I hope he marries Lyndsey Vonn cheats on her with some Perkins Waitresses and gets back to winning to Majors. Maybe that is what he needs in his golf game, a little side piece.

Some people (and I am making a general statement) prefer to "root" for people they believe they like. Some people prefer to root for people that are down right evil. Others prefer candid and still others prefer robotic.

What does it matter if someone chooses to root against him? I have always wondered this. Why does said Tiger fan care if one guy or another hates his guts because he snubbed a kid for an autograph, was the principle member of #UglyHookerGate or is a sh!tty tipper? If you love the guy for great golf, someone rooting against him shouldn't change that.

People root for golfers and teams for millions of reasons, including "I just want to see great golf" (as long as its not a Tiger rival)

 

[Evok]

I always like it when someone brings up their dislike for Tiger because he cheated on his wife, what does that have to do with the game of golf. Some folks put to much emotion into it, would I cheat on my wife absolutely not do I care if someone who provides entertainment value do it, NOPE! All I care about is the product on tv, in fact I hope he marries Lyndsey Vonn cheats on her with some Perkins Waitresses and gets back to winning to Majors. Maybe that is what he needs in his golf game, a little side piece.

Well said. I absolutely don't agree with it or condone it but cmon I like tiger as a golfer because he's entertaining and I grew up watching him, I don't really take the time to dwell on that other crap off the cours. People will hold onto anything sometimes

 

[jspangs]

I always like it when someone brings up their dislike for Tiger because he cheated on his wife, what does that have to do with the game of golf. Some folks put to much emotion into it, would I cheat on my wife absolutely not do I care if someone who provides entertainment value do it, NOPE! All I care about is the product on tv, in fact I hope he marries Lyndsey Vonn cheats on her with some Perkins Waitresses and gets back to winning to Majors. Maybe that is what he needs in his golf game, a little side piece.

But even from an entertainment stand point, is Tiger really more entertaining than anyone else on tour? I don't think so. Personally I prefer when he's not playing, so at least I get to watch someone other than Tiger on TV.