Shaft Flex - Does it matter?
Kenny from TM gave me a quick tip on my black tie being in the club...
"Quit thinking about it."
I did.
It worked. Just had to swing my swing.
Agreed. learned this the hard way. Shafts aren't going to drastically change numbers. However, what I did learn is that even if the numbers are the same, different shafts (and sometimes flexes) can FEEL different, and finding one that feels the best with your swing is a good thing.
I bet if you didn't know what flex you were swinging you would be surprised by the results.
- Staff
- #30
Guaranteed. Most would be surprised and most would pick a lighter flex as their favorite.
If shafts and flexes don't mean that much, why do we have so many manufacturers of shafts on the market? In so many different flexes, different torques, etc. There should be a universal shaft for everyone but there isn't. My father could never hit my Stiff flex at his age and his Senior shaft I would spray all over the place. Swing speed has an effect on whether you can get the ball in the air with a Regular or Stiff flex. But it also comes down to technique ..... I could hit it with a shovel and a rake better than some people hit it with their own clubs. BTW ... the shovel and the rake is a stiff flex! LOL
Not a Sermon .... Just a Thought
Not a Sermon .... Just a Thought
Simple: money
Why are there so many car companies? Why are there so many cell phone manufactures? Why have so many shoe companies?
BIGBALL
Active member
In my opinion it matters if you are comparing the same shaft manufacturer ( and even that can vary ).. like Blu and others have said, the term stiff and regular mean nothing. It's all about frequencies. The one place I have seen a difference in hitting the same club with the same shaft, just one regular and one stiff, is ball flight height. One thing I am curious about, if Crossfield really said this, is that face angle is the main determining factor in direction. While this is absolutely true, it seems to me shaft flex ( actually, torque rating more so than flex I think ) plays a part in face angle at impact?
Because they all have different bells and whistles that makes one better than the other. Just like the shaft manufacturers
I don't profess to having any knowledge regarding the different shaft options that are available these days, but on a personal note, when I had the chance to hit the same head with different shafts I could feel a difference which was noticeable in the end result, and it is the end result that matters, is it not?
As I understand it, the specifications that companies use to designate regular / stiff / x-stiff / senior / etc vary so a regular from one company may be nearer stiff in another? (Correct me if I am wrong)
It would be interesting to see a true blind testing (shafts with no identifying marks / logos that could influence the person) whereby people were fitted to the shaft that gave them the best result for the head they use, whether that be based on numbers or how the person 'feels' a club works for them, and then comparing the shaft they have been fitted to with the shaft they would actually request when buying
I suspect that a lot of average golfers (not necessarily members on here) would be fitted to different shafts....?
As I understand it, the specifications that companies use to designate regular / stiff / x-stiff / senior / etc vary so a regular from one company may be nearer stiff in another? (Correct me if I am wrong)
It would be interesting to see a true blind testing (shafts with no identifying marks / logos that could influence the person) whereby people were fitted to the shaft that gave them the best result for the head they use, whether that be based on numbers or how the person 'feels' a club works for them, and then comparing the shaft they have been fitted to with the shaft they would actually request when buying
I suspect that a lot of average golfers (not necessarily members on here) would be fitted to different shafts....?
Not really. They all do the same thing for the most part.
Like many have said, you could take 100 golfers and do a "blind" test with a ton of different shafts. Don't tell them anything about each shaft and just let them hit. The vast majority won't be able to tell you which is which. Sure, the extremes will be noticeable but that's it.
OkieSpladle
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It certainly has an impact and that can be seen on any launch monitor. How much of an impact probably depends on your swing and skill level. Kick point and tourque have an impact as well. The shaft is part of the package that delivers the face to the ball. Change the shaft (and keep everything else the same) and the clubface may come in at a different point, despite taking the same swing.
Bog33y
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Can't say that I agree with the video. Mark only addressed the differences between S and XS, not R to S to XS so I can't really say what he's presenting is valid.
In my experience, flex made a huge difference with the dispersion of my shots. My first set of irons had True Temper "Featherlite" shafts R flex and I constantly missed right. The ball would start straight down the target line then fade right... I had to aim considerably left to hit my intended target. I went for a fitting for my next set of irons and when the fitter gave me clubs with S flex, my ball flight was considerably straighter.
In my experience, flex made a huge difference with the dispersion of my shots. My first set of irons had True Temper "Featherlite" shafts R flex and I constantly missed right. The ball would start straight down the target line then fade right... I had to aim considerably left to hit my intended target. I went for a fitting for my next set of irons and when the fitter gave me clubs with S flex, my ball flight was considerably straighter.
The only reason shaft flex doesn't matter, I could put a 72 gram shaft in your driver that is labeled "senior flex" but could actually be stouter than an X you have ever played. The label by the manufacturer doesn't mean anything within the industry of graphite shafts, because there is no industry standard.
Ole Gray
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Shaft profile seems to determine a difference more than shaft flex for myself. With that said, it's easier for me to hit a fade with X-stiff vs Stiff in the same brand, same model, same profile, same head.
So if I'm buying a shaft to hit a bit of a fade better I will buy the X-stiff because it's "EASIER". Could I adjust to the Stiff and figure it out? Sure, but why bother when I can just pay for the one that does it out the gate.
AND! With that said, I DO buy stiff and regular sometimes if it gives me the "EASIER" path to the flight I'm looking for.
AND.. I guess where you release the club will be the be all end all in what you can do with any shaft.
So if I'm buying a shaft to hit a bit of a fade better I will buy the X-stiff because it's "EASIER". Could I adjust to the Stiff and figure it out? Sure, but why bother when I can just pay for the one that does it out the gate.
AND! With that said, I DO buy stiff and regular sometimes if it gives me the "EASIER" path to the flight I'm looking for.
AND.. I guess where you release the club will be the be all end all in what you can do with any shaft.
Ole Gray
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Interesting stuff. Would this work for someone with a slower swing speed. I've often thought of playing a stiffer shaft to help work the ball a certain way but was scared my swing speed would not work with it.
When it comes to shafts results are the only thing that matters to know it's working. I played regular flex and soft stiff for years till last year when I switched to X100 just for fun. I hit the ball further and more on target than any time before. Still prefer softer flexes in my wedges though.
HBirdman80
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Two reasons: money (like rtparty said) and because a very small part of the population can tell the difference (we call them pros), which goes back to the money issue.
Not sure that it is exactly the same, but here is my experience from being a sponsored skier. My sponsors would give me equipment, I never paid for anything, but why?
Because they wanted others to see me on the mountains and think "damn, that guy looks cool and so good, I want to look like that" and the other skiers would go out and buy the equipment I was using. Or at least what they thought was my equipment because what I used was not available on the retail market (you see the same thing in golf with 'tour issued' items, they facially look the same but are, in fact, different). The average skier, even the best recreational skiers, really couldn't tell the difference between subtle equipment setting changes in my gear. I experimented with this by letting friends try some of my equipment, they'd always tell me "oh this is different because X". 9 out of 10 times they'd be wrong, the difference was not what they thought it was, but they thought it was cool to ski on pro gear.
However, I could tell the difference, and the difference was important for me. My main goal was competing in races, not driving sales for manufacturers, and if a manufacturer didn't offer the equipment I needed for my style, I would switch manufacturers. For me, the difference between a 45mm and 50mm lift when flying down a mountain was important. So manufacturers would make product changes, and release new products, to satisfy their sponsored skiers and try to be 'the best' or 'the most winning' and keep their stable of skiers. You see this all the time in golf (a good recent example was Phil using a SLDR driver instead of a Callaway, or how Titleist is the #1 ball, etc.). Once the product was designed, it made sense to strip out some features and sell a cheaper version to the general public to make money. And people would buy those products, each with minor variations, because they thought it would make them better even though they really couldn't tell the difference (though they thought they could). Yes, there are big steps where a difference can be felt (changing to parabolic skis, for example), but outside of those large jumps, the minor variations mean little for the average consumer (say, the difference between an F4 and a graphite base).
Because golf is far more televised than skiing, I suspect the effect is greatly magnified. Manufacturers develop products for pros because they need to keep the pros in their stable and give them the competitive edge. The pros are so good they can tell the difference and manufacturers make the various products with minor differences to keep pros happy because if one manufacturer doesn't make the requested change someone else may and steal a pro away. Manufacturers make consumer versions of the different products and gin up demand based on the pros - there's no need to color your shafts blue or pink or white other than to make the brand easily identifiable so you can generate sales. And it works, just look at these forums with people debating shaft differences, launch numbers, etc., it generates product sales and thus revenue. While I can tell the difference between an A-Flex and an S-Flex shaft, or my decade+ old shafts and brand new shafts, those are major jumps. If you taped over the names on 10 new shafts and let me hit them, I wouldn't be able to accurately tell you the difference, but I suspect a pro would. And sure, you can see some number differences in a launch monitor, but is your swing really repeatable enough to take those changes out to your round? Probably not.
So most of these differences are really geared to the pros (who can actually tell the difference), who in turn help drive consumer sales, while product differentiation also helps drive consumer sales as people chase the ideal.
At least that's my humble opinion.
Ole Gray
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I may have to try an experiment with an xstiff shaft in my driver. I have more dispersion issues with the driver than anything else and I would certainly not be opposed to trying something that would tighten it up a bit.
Its also worth noting that Tom Wishon has said that unless you have a late release, shaft flex makes no difference.
oiler3535
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All I can tell you is that last year when I got my Covert 1.0 Performance driver I was ready to walk away with no driver. I hit literally every driver in the Golftown in regular and stiff flex (~100mph ss-usual carry about 240). Nothing was performing good enough for me to spend the money on (work part time and it was going to be the first ever full price golf club I ever bought). I narrowed down to the XHot, Amp and Covert, but none of them quite felt right. They were a notch ahead of anything else I tried, but were missing both ways and felt inconsistent. Then the guy there had me put the X shaft in from the tour version, and bingo, I fell in love. Ball flight was a bit low, but felt great and was consistent. So while I'm certainly not claiming to be able to differentiate all different flex profiles blindly, I'd bet if you gave me the same club with R and S (or X) shafts from the same model and had me hit 10 with each I'd be able to tell you which was which.
Evok
Don't worry, Be happy!
I bet a lot of people would be surprised with the results.