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TaylorMade Golf - A Struggle At The Top?

SuperStroke
GolfFest said:
Light and Long was probably the first thing that turned me off about it, but I don't really remember any of the loft up talk being applied to the Jetspeed. Maybe it was and I missed it. It is probably my perception but not the message they were trying to send but it seemed like Jetspeed was more of the same just you will get more ball speed and SLDR was about the new CG and a different way of doing a driver that nothing else was like.
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But they have virtually the same CG.
And while lofting up was in the original message, it was not the main message with SLDR early on either.
It was just like every other year for the most part. Here is our main driver with full incredible adjustability and here is the other one. Both are done with the same low and forward CG. Both share similar forgiveness factors. The idea that SLDR is the reason for the failure of JetSpeed, does not really work based on actual dynamics of the equipment, and then add the fact that if you check out the article in the 1st post, you see this is not just a this year problem and definitely not just a driver problem.
 
tgtt said:
They alter spin higher and lower to try and achieve optimum launch numbers and using lighter materials to increase swig speed. As far as increased forgiveness I'm sure that's minimal but there. TMAG still uses the very old inverted cone and Cobra still E9 (or whatever). No MAJOR changes there. COR maxed out so we saw better shaft options and now it's COG placement all to achieve ideal launch. That's all they're chasing IMO and with adjustability they only need one club. Just my take on things.
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Actually, cobra has made substantial changes to the E9 performance via the bio cells.

They do make changes, they do alter things to achieve better ball speed retention. They aren't just resting on laurels. Club design is a battle of grams and even half grams.
 
tgtt said:
They alter spin higher and lower to try and achieve optimum launch numbers and using lighter materials to increase swig speed. As far as increased forgiveness I'm sure that's minimal but there. TMAG still uses the very old inverted cone and Cobra still E9 (or whatever). No MAJOR changes there. COR maxed out so we saw better shaft options and now it's COG placement all to achieve ideal launch. That's all they're chasing IMO and with adjustability they only need one club. Just my take on things.
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This is very much downplayed what has been done. Cobra and e9 is only partially there considering their cell adoption and drivers with different CG depending on what one needs. COR has been the same for quite some time and we always hear that nothing has changed. Check out the driver evolution between when COR was maxed out and what they are doing now. Heck, COR was maxed out in the late 90s I believe (going off memory it was 98). Based on the logic being used, the only thing that has been changed between then and now would be adjustability to max out optimum launch numbers. Frankly that is just not true.
 
tgtt said:
They alter spin higher and lower to try and achieve optimum launch numbers and using lighter materials to increase swig speed. As far as increased forgiveness I'm sure that's minimal but there. TMAG still uses the very old inverted cone and Cobra still E9 (or whatever). No MAJOR changes there. COR maxed out so we saw better shaft options and now it's COG placement all to achieve ideal launch. That's all they're chasing IMO and with adjustability they only need one club. Just my take on things.
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COR is maxed out in the center of the face but not all around the club face. Companies are continuing to find ways to make the sweet spot larger (ie obtain max COR further away from the physical center of the club face)
 
That Darth Vader music you hear is Nike drooling like jackals figuring out how to chase down some exposed market share. This is the type of opportunity they thrive on.Wounded competitor. They have some momentum and a fresh hot face in Rory. Add in the fact that they love kicking Adidas butt. They have the money to go to the big boxes and simply remind them of all the money they have made together in other parts of the store.I have seen them do it with NFL properties and other sports. This might be fun to watch. Now whether they have the product to do anything is another question.The deathstar looks like this:nike:Dicks' come to the dark side.
 
Is TaylorMade at a point where they moved the technolgy needle to fast for their own good?
 
Josh, I love these editorials. Lots of intriguing stuff here to try and wrap the noggin around.

I know I'm late to the party just getting home and much of this has been discussed, but for me...

The next steps that TM takes IMO are massive not only for them, but the rest of the industry as well. The pushing of mass inventory to big box stores who never stood a chance of selling it all in turn creating a massive backlog reeks of complete mismanagement.

Add in the bomb that was the Jetspeed line, which felt rushed from the start, and you end up reeling a bit. The big thing for what happens form here for them is what is next, how do you regroup and attack this. To me this is both internal, external, and from a design and marketing standpoint.

Its going to be a wild last half of the year IMO.
 
Playdough said:
Is TaylorMade at a point where they moved the technolgy needle to fast for their own good?
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Interesting thought. My thoughts are not any more or less than any of the other top brands. Moving SLDR up as far as they did might have had an impact on that, but others might say it held off this issue for longer than expected.
 
JB said:
This goes back longer than JetSpeed for this instance however. Stage 2 and R1 were tough on some. At least in terms of the full line. They had huge retail buy ins and those retailers are left with a lot of product. Then came SLDR, JetSpeed and SLDR S. Each with massive buy ins at the retail level. SLDR S is one of hte most puzzling I have seen to date. I understand needing a $299 price point driver, but the entire product is baffling from some points of view.
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I think the buy in program needs to be looked at sounds like they keep thinking each of these lines will sell like the original RBZ The 3 full lines is a ton of product and if it is not moving i imagine it might delay there next line in 2015
 
Could the fall of TM be partially to blame on other companies catching up? Because I think so. Looking back a couple years to the R11/RBZ lines, nobody else had a driver/fairway/hybrid head that was white. TM did a great job of selling it saying "reduced/non glare!" and good for them for capitalizing on it. And the masses ate it up, whether it being the marketing job, players using it on tour, or just thats the club they hit well, and sales skyrocketed.

Now I don't have numbers and haven't even researched it, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Stage2/R1 lines sold as well (again, I could be wrong) and they didn't even bother trying to make a R1 line in fairway woods. We obviously know the JetSpeed line hasn't worked out, and they seem to introduce something new with the SLDR name on it every 2 months. Now regardless of how well anything in the SLDR family does, it's still 1 line going up against 2 in previous years. Sales are down just simply looking at it from a TM prospective. Now throw in the fact that Callaway has the BB line back, the x and x2 hots seem to get a ton of love (at least on here) as well as every other company stepping up their game and producing a better quality product, you have automatic downed sales for the number 1 company in golf.

It's already been mentioned in here, but I agree that TM might of gotten too cocky at the top, and thought their run would last certainly a lot longer than it looks like it will.

As far as the overstocking goes, again no numbers to prove so purely speculation, but maybe with the huge success the original RBZ line had, they thought that would of been easily followed up by the Stage2, R1, JetSpeeds and SLDR's. Throw in loss of spending money and a still down economy, along with a flop like JetSpeeds, and of course your going to have tons of inventory left. Many reasons as to why, and maybe it's to be shared amongst everybody as to why there is so much inventory, but it mainly falls on TM for shipping out so much in the first place and not letting the market first take shape on these new clubs.
 
You are so right JMan. The last half product and marketing is already baked at this point. So I imagine folks are calling agents in the orient and ad agencies to cancel as much as they can. Product is probably on the water if it is coming from overseas. More red Ink in the fourth quarter.This is a mess for the industry. I agree that a strong Taylor Made is a good thing for the whole business.
Jman said:
Josh, I love these editorials. Lots of intriguing stuff here to try and wrap the noggin around.

I know I'm late to the party just getting home and much of this has been discussed, but for me...

The next steps that TM takes IMO are massive not only for them, but the rest of the industry as well. The pushing of mass inventory to big box stores who never stood a chance of selling it all in turn creating a massive backlog reeks of complete mismanagement.

Add in the bomb that was the Jetspeed line, which felt rushed from the start, and you end up reeling a bit. The big thing for what happens form here for them is what is next, how do you regroup and attack this. To me this is both internal, external, and from a design and marketing standpoint.

Its going to be a wild last half of the year IMO.
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Jman said:
Josh, I love these editorials. Lots of intriguing stuff here to try and wrap the noggin around.

I know I'm late to the party just getting home and much of this has been discussed, but for me...

The next steps that TM takes IMO are massive not only for them, but the rest of the industry as well. The pushing of mass inventory to big box stores who never stood a chance of selling it all in turn creating a massive backlog reeks of complete mismanagement.

Add in the bomb that was the Jetspeed line, which felt rushed from the start, and you end up reeling a bit. The big thing for what happens form here for them is what is next, how do you regroup and attack this. To me this is both internal, external, and from a design and marketing standpoint.

Its going to be a wild last half of the year IMO.
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To me this is the new modern day supply and demand. The BigBox demands a high supply to ensure the instant satisfaction of its customer base, so the OE supplies that supply but with the string that you "will" take this much supply no matter the demand. When the demand is not met, the BigBox is left with the string and the OE isn't out much supply. Then the next cycle hits and its all the same song and dance. At some point the BigBox has to go to the OE and says no more, we still have supply from from the second and third cycle that we can't move.

I think going foward we will see a move to demand the supply when the demand outpaces the supply. Just in time shipping and internal sales measuring tools are too advanced now for a company to let that happen to them. Theres no way that BigBoxes cant use the shipping tools and measuring devices outthere to let them continually get stuck with inventory they can't move.
 
Playdough said:
Is TaylorMade at a point where they moved the technolgy needle to fast for their own good?
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I think if you believe in a technology, as they seem to with low/forward CG, then it's silly to sit on it in case someone else gets something similar to market beforehand...

I think they did kind of paint themselves into a corner with combining adjustability with low/forward CG in such an aggressive way as the SLDR. They ended up with a driver that was not as forgiving as the R1 it replaced (IMO), not loft/lie independent for adjustment, all while pushing the loft-up idea that didn't adequately translate to the tour, which meant it didn't trickle down to the masses, IMO. I imagine there's a lot of 12° driver heads of SLDR and JetSpeed sitting in inventories that just aren't likely to move without a pretty sizable loss.

All this happened to take place while a rival company brought back a very popular line of metalwoods, and the short-term problems become pretty evident. If golf is a zero-sum game as we're led to believe in terms of number of players and equipment, and Callaway says they're at their 2007 market-share numbers, then that increase much have come to someone's detriment. It would be interesting to see a pie chart analysis.
 
TaylorMade Golf - A Struggle At The Top?

It makes sense that their numbers are going to be down more than average as they had unusually high market share, at least in the driver segment. I think it's also possible they gained that position using a differentiator that is inherently unsustainable - a color (in contrast, Titleist maintains their dominance in the ball market with the idea that the proV1 is a premium product. In general there will always be people willing to pay for the best - or perceived best)). Since then they just seem to be lacking a single vision. I don't mind their release cycles. But I can be bothered by the haphazard way the releases are managed which sometimes create confusion. Confusion among consumers about a company's product and vision are never a good thing.
 
Very good article JB. I have to say this year I'm playing as much golf as I've played in a while (3-4 times a week) on a variety of different courses. I have seen fewer new drivers (company's current lines) this year than any in the last 4-5 years. I remember I used to always see the newest drivers in every bag, now not so much. I see way more R11's, RBZ's, older Titleist models, RAZR's, etc. on the course than company's current models. Heck, I've seen a grand total of zero BB and BBA, 2 SLDR's, 1 Covert 2.0 and no Cobra's. I don't know if it's just me not seeing them but it's definitely something I've noticed.

Honestly, I don't know the answers but it will be interesting to watch it play out. Hopefully TM's changes are for the better.
 
Paladin said:
I think if you believe in a technology, as they seem to with low/forward CG, then it's silly to sit on it in case someone else gets something similar to market beforehand....
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But couldnt the case be made as well that they might have cut off a nose inspite of the face? If the technology, as has been stated here and other places, wasn't ready and they rushed it to market to be the first be a factor to this? Lets look at the release cycle calender for a sec. R11-Feb 11. R11S-Feb 12. R1-March 13. SLDR-Sept 13. They cut their release cycle short by 6 or months and basically after the fact found out you had to play more loft to get the most of the driver. And this isnt even counting the second teir drivers and sub-release of the R1Black in May and R1TourSpec sometime in April I think.

They go to the BigBoxes armed with these numbers of how much they are selling compared to everyone else, say you have to buy this much inventory for each of those releases. Ok, thats fine and dandy on a yearly release because in November we can blow these things out for Chrismas and be ready for the new launch in Feb-March and then TM comes swooping in 6 months early and says we got this and you have to buy this much of this to be a Tier One supplier for us. Well that then leaves the BigBoxes hanging with equipment they can't move because people want the newest thing, not the second-newest thing. On top of the fact they subreleased two more models and put out another set of Second-tier metal woods. The whole system was setout for absoulte failure at some point.
 
StanTheCaddy said:
Very good article JB. I have to say this year I'm playing as much golf as I've played in a while (3-4 times a week) on a variety of different courses. I have seen fewer new drivers (company's current lines) this year than any in the last 4-5 years. I remember I used to always see the newest drivers in every bag, now not so much. I see way more R11's, RBZ's, older Titleist models, RAZR's, etc. on the course than company's current models. Heck, I've seen a grand total of zero BB and BBA, 2 SLDR's, 1 Covert 2.0 and no Cobra's. I don't know if it's just me not seeing them but it's definitely something I've noticed.

Honestly, I don't know the answers but it will be interesting to watch it play out. Hopefully TM's changes are for the better.
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Ive noticed this trend aswell. All the guys I play with are using drivers from years ago. Mainly older titeleist/TM's. Definitely correct on that.
 
Hawk said:
I don't think SLDRs irons will even sniff becoming a hit. Not on the Burner/RBZ/SB level at least.
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I do believe they can be a hit, but sure, it's tough to have continuous hits. I'm sure they will at least sniff. ;)
 
Forcing such large inventories on big box stores, which in the end out date themselves before they're sold is poor business. The color craze was insanely productive for them, but their own successes may be their own demise too.
 
JB, I enjoyed that editorial. I always like to get your insight on these issues.

I was actually talking to my pro yesterday because he was complaining about TMaG. None of the Jetspeeds sold, so his rep yanked all of the clubs from him and gave him SLDRs stuff, but he's only sold two of them. As other have said in here, the JS stuff was given to a big box store to try and sell.

Maybe it's just me, but I really like the TM line up right now. I guess they need a better GI/SGI line of woods/hybrids, or at least something on par with the Stage 2. But otherwise, the irons are all solid, the driver is my favorite ever and the balls are now in my rotation.
 
Do not be misled that Taylor Made or anybody else can MAKE Dicks or any other big box take more product than they think they need without a pre-determined exit stradegy in the case it does not move in the stores.The buyers are top notch and they and their merchandise managers are paid bonus on their sales and profitability. Margin support or make-down money is always a part of the sales conversation as is stock swaps. This is a two way street and both sides have a a lot stake.
 
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Very good read! Let's hope the new CEO can get things back on track
 
​The problem is so simple..... they r pumping out product and attempting to diversify faster than they can sell.... simple economics.
 
They need to revamp their planning based on today's sales numbers and not the numbers of a couple years ago.
Taylormade just isn't the clear number one anymore and their own marketing is biting them in the arse by going around in circles.
 
Good article. I am not smart enough for the answers, but can say ever since the Rocketballz introduction their releases just haven't hit home for me. I still play the R9 driver and have added the mini driver and 3w HL, but everything else has just been blah.
 
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