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transition from game improvement irons to players irons....

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wjw0006

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just stumbled on this fantastic website recently....hopefully some of the experienced players can help me....I'm 34 and played golf for the first time in June of 2012. I was immediately hooked and since early June of 2012 I am now at a 6.6 handicap. I've played about 250 rounds in that time, no lessons but I've read lots of books/videos, and hit balls at least twice during the week. I purchased Speedblades irons early this year and hit them well, I am at a point now where over the last 20 rounds of golf I am averaging more than 50% of GIR. My handicap continues to go down as I continue to improve my game, I have been working mostly on short game this year as last year I focused on ball striking with my irons.

I'm getting better at working the ball and shaping shots and believe that I am not getting as close as I want to be with the speedblades since they are more of a gi iron. I like them a lot and this is not a dis on them at all, but they are a cast club and now that I am in the mid single digits (I started the season at 8.2 hc, live in MD) at 6.6 I figured that this may be the time to go to more of a players club. I purchased Bridgestone J40's with the 4-6 being the dual pocket cavity and the 7-PW being cavity backs. They seem to be much more accurate and I seem to have much more control with them versus the speedblades. I have lost distance, about a club worth of distance but in talking to the pro at my country club he is going to strengthen some of the lofts by a degree or two so that the loss of distance is not as bad. While the Bridgestones are not as forgiving the accuracy is better with them but hitting out of the rough is a bit more difficult. I am thinking that at some point I am going to have to make a move to a better iron assuming I continue to improve which I hope I will.

Has anyone else had some growing pains when their skill level has gotten to a point where they transitioned from gi irons to more of a player iron? if so, can you please share your story? Thanks!
 
I go back and forth between my supreme GI irons (Cleveland Altitude Hyrons) and a set of Mizuno JPX 825s. Not truly a "player's iron" but plays closer to them than a GI set will.

I have my favorite clubs in each set, but in general I don't really notice a huge difference in shotmaking between the 825 and the Altitudes. There is a difference, for sure, but it's not nearly as dramatic as some suggest. The truth is, I think a lot of golfers have bought into the marketing that GI irons are limited and only "half a real golf club", but hey, it's worth it for all that forgiveness.

In truth the difference in accuracy in the sets for me at distances over 100 yards is measured in feel, not yards. I have non-GI wedges and so I can get pretty surgical under 110 or so and am not sure what the tradeoffs against the altitudes are. I can get the altitudes working at a reasonable pace, for sure, and perhaps not as dramatic as the JPX set, but in my high irons I'm not shot shaping much in general. I've found workability much more critical off the tee and with wedges. With a 7 iron in the Altitudes agannst the JPX set I see very little distinction between them.

Also, I've talked to multiple 3 handicap and below players who use the altitudes (not always the whole set, but mix and match) and so I also don't see any reason to assume that one over the other will be more influential on your score. It's more about what prevents the bad strokes, for you, and what you enjoy playing the most when you look down and address that ball. If you love GI irons or you love seeing those steak knives (and hit both generally well), great, commit to those and you can't make too big a mistake.
 
I'm not a believe that a golfer has to use players irons to get better. Or that all good players use players irons. I've seen plenty of really good golfers use GI clubs.

My other opinion, please don't take this the wrong way, if you can't work the ball with GI irons, then you won't be able to with players irons.
 
I consider myself of a fairly good golfer, I chased the notion that players irons would improve my game. I went with a set of Mizuno MP-64's and when I was hitting the ball well were perfect.

But, everytime my swing was no so fresh, I suffered. Dont believe you HAVE to go players irons and get better. Ive seen great golfers play GI and SGI clubs. I am settling into the SLDR irons and they give me everything I need. Forgiveness, distance and workability.
 
I read something the other day in the reason PGA players play "players irons" is so they don't get lazy with their swing. Granted they practice probably 10xs more than your addict as well.
 
Welcome to THP! These guys here can give you fantastic info and help finding what will work for you.
 
blugold said:
I'm not a believe that a golfer has to use players irons to get better. Or that all good players use players irons. I've seen plenty of really good golfers use GI clubs.

My other opinion, please don't take this the wrong way, if you can't work the ball with GI irons, then you won't be able to with players irons.
Click to expand...

wjw0006 said:
just stumbled on this fantastic website recently....hopefully some of the experienced players can help me....I'm 34 and played golf for the first time in June of 2012. I was immediately hooked and since early June of 2012 I am now at a 6.6 handicap. I've played about 250 rounds in that time, no lessons but I've read lots of books/videos, and hit balls at least twice during the week. I purchased Speedblades irons early this year and hit them well, I am at a point now where over the last 20 rounds of golf I am averaging more than 50% of GIR. My handicap continues to go down as I continue to improve my game, I have been working mostly on short game this year as last year I focused on ball striking with my irons.

I'm getting better at working the ball and shaping shots and believe that I am not getting as close as I want to be with the speedblades since they are more of a gi iron. I like them a lot and this is not a dis on them at all, but they are a cast club and now that I am in the mid single digits (I started the season at 8.2 hc, live in MD) at 6.6 I figured that this may be the time to go to more of a players club. I purchased Bridgestone J40's with the 4-6 being the dual pocket cavity and the 7-PW being cavity backs. They seem to be much more accurate and I seem to have much more control with them versus the speedblades. I have lost distance, about a club worth of distance but in talking to the pro at my country club he is going to strengthen some of the lofts by a degree or two so that the loss of distance is not as bad. While the Bridgestones are not as forgiving the accuracy is better with them but hitting out of the rough is a bit more difficult. I am thinking that at some point I am going to have to make a move to a better iron assuming I continue to improve which I hope I will.

Has anyone else had some growing pains when their skill level has gotten to a point where they transitioned from gi irons to more of a player iron? if so, can you please share your story? Thanks!
Click to expand...


Do a search on the irons you are pondering here and do some reading, you'll get a ton of real world opinions from many different handicap levels, you'll get enough info to point you in the right direction. From there it's all personal preference based on the small nuances you enjoy in a club, the cast vs forged thing is a discussion that has valid points on both sides but neither will win the argument and the Gi vs players iron is just as subjective, most can only hit the ball left to right but will insist that a GI is just as effective at turning the ball as a players club and that just isn't true. Play what you enjoy and welcome to THP!!
 
blugold said:
I'm not a believe that a golfer has to use players irons to get better. Or that all good players use players irons. I've seen plenty of really good golfers use GI clubs.

My other opinion, please don't take this the wrong way, if you can't work the ball with GI irons, then you won't be able to with players irons.
Click to expand...

I agree. I know a couple of guys that are scratch that use GI clubs and a couple that use blades. No right or wrong. I have GI clubs about to the max, and I can hit the longer clubs either direction with ease.

Me and some of my skins buddies did this thing where we all used 14 clubs that had to be at least 15 years old for the past two weeks just to see how it would go. I'll take the forgiveness of today's clubs not to mention how much better shafts have become. Happy that deal is over with.
 
I personally made the switch from GI irons to blades to improve my ball flight and spin characteristics. I use to hit the ball too high and with too much spin when I played GI irons. Even though my lofts are slightly higher with my blades I get a boring trajectory that doesn't balloon and a club that is easy for me to work both ways.
 
fupresti said:
I consider myself of a fairly good golfer, I chased the notion that players irons would improve my game. I went with a set of Mizuno MP-64's and when I was hitting the ball well were perfect.

But, everytime my swing was no so fresh, I suffered. Dont believe you HAVE to go players irons and get better. Ive seen great golfers play GI and SGI clubs. I am settling into the SLDR irons and they give me everything I need. Forgiveness, distance and workability.
Click to expand...

This post is right on
 
I dont think you need to move to players irons at all to improve. Also I would get used to the difference in distance as players irons have weaker lofts. Unless it gives you a huge gap somewhere it doesn't matter if you are now hitting a 6 where before you were hitting a 7. I can tell you I think about going the other way more than I think about sticking with players irons. I have hit blades (when I was playing more and a lower hdcp) and players irons for years however so many clubs out there offer a good amount of forgiveness while still maintaining a great appearance I question why I even bother with players irons all the time.

Players irons fit a certain type of golfer but I dont think you can fit which iron you are in based on your hdcp. Play what you hit the best and keep up the short game work that will drop the cap much faster than a set of irons ever could.
 
GI vs Players and Cast vs Forged have no real bearing on "working the ball". GI clubs mainly provide forgiveness on off-centered shots and help golfers get the ball in the air easier. Cast vs Forged is just the manufacturing process for the club.

The swing is what causes the ball to move (working the ball), not the club.
 
Thank you all for the replies. I am not against playing a gi iron at all. I'll play whatever I score the best with. They could be pink or purple colored, as long as I score the best with them, I'm fine with that. The main issue that I have right now is that I do not believe that I am getting as close to the pin as I could be with the SpeedBlades. I know for a fact that I am playing the right flex shafts because I confirmed this before I bought the SB's. I hit lots of greens with the SB's, it's just that I am not as accurate as I believe I can be with them. I know that I am more accurate with the Bridgestone's as I've compared the two at the range. The SB's "float" or balloon a bit for me sometimes. The Bridgestones feel better probably because they are a much better quality club (forged vs. cast). I also have much more control.

Regarding the shaping of the shots, its not that I cannot shape the SB's, it's that I have more control of the Bridgestones versus the SB's. It's easier to get the ball to do what I want it to do with the J40's than the SB's. There are downsides to the Bridgestones though in that they do not go as far and are not as forgiving. I've been reading as much as I can on many topics including forged vs. cast irons.

One of the issues that I've run into is that it's hard to find good advice/feedback because of my unique situation. Everyone means well and I appreciate it but most people have been playing for much longer than I have. Someone from my club said that because I was concerned about the distance loss that this is a sign that I am not ready to go to the Bridgestones. Maybe I'm naive but that makes no sense to me. He clearly was not considering the fact that I have only been playing two plus years. I could see that making more sense if someone had been playing for 10 years but I've only played about 250 rounds, which is not a lot at all in my opinion.

The Bridgestones are still cavity backs so I'm not sure if they are really considered "players" irons. They are definitely not game improvement irons though and they are not blades either, something that I would not even consider any time soon. If I'm already hitting at least 50% of GIR I suppose I could improve that number and will in time as my game continues to improve. My birdie stats were not as high as I thought they should be and I believe that this is because I am not as close as I could be with the SB's. So I was thinking that if I can improve my proximity to the hole which I know is better with the J40's then that make sense to me, I'm just not sure if it's worth the trade off of the lack of forgiveness.

Because I've only been playing such a short time, I guess my confidence is not that high so even though I know I want to be more accurate, there is something about not hitting the ball as far that sits on my mind too....
 
wjw0006 said:
Thank you all for the replies. I am not against playing a gi iron at all. I'll play whatever I score the best with. They could be pink or purple colored, as long as I score the best with them, I'm fine with that. The main issue that I have right now is that I do not believe that I am getting as close to the pin as I could be with the SpeedBlades. I know for a fact that I am playing the right flex shafts because I confirmed this before I bought the SB's. I hit lots of greens with the SB's, it's just that I am not as accurate as I believe I can be with them. I know that I am more accurate with the Bridgestone's as I've compared the two at the range. The SB's "float" or balloon a bit for me sometimes. The Bridgestones feel better probably because they are a much better quality club (forged vs. cast). I also have much more control.

Regarding the shaping of the shots, its not that I cannot shape the SB's, it's that I have more control of the Bridgestones versus the SB's. It's easier to get the ball to do what I want it to do with the J40's than the SB's. There are downsides to the Bridgestones though in that they do not go as far and are not as forgiving. I've been reading as much as I can on many topics including forged vs. cast irons.

One of the issues that I've run into is that it's hard to find good advice/feedback because of my unique situation. Everyone means well and I appreciate it but most people have been playing for much longer than I have. Someone from my club said that because I was concerned about the distance loss that this is a sign that I am not ready to go to the Bridgestones. Maybe I'm naive but that makes no sense to me. He clearly was not considering the fact that I have only been playing two plus years. I could see that making more sense if someone had been playing for 10 years but I've only played about 250 rounds, which is not a lot at all in my opinion.

The Bridgestones are still cavity backs so I'm not sure if they are really considered "players" irons. They are definitely not game improvement irons though and they are not blades either, something that I would not even consider any time soon. If I'm already hitting at least 50% of GIR I suppose I could improve that number and will in time as my game continues to improve. My birdie stats were not as high as I thought they should be and I believe that this is because I am not as close as I could be with the SB's. So I was thinking that if I can improve my proximity to the hole which I know is better with the J40's then that make sense to me, I'm just not sure if it's worth the trade off of the lack of forgiveness.

Because I've only been playing such a short time, I guess my confidence is not that high so even though I know I want to be more accurate, there is something about not hitting the ball as far that sits on my mind too....
Click to expand...

Are the Speedblades and J40's the same specs (length and lie angle wise)?

You might also try getting some impact tape to see where on the club face you are hitting the ball. With the J40's the "sweet spot" is a lot smaller than on the Speedblades, which could be why you are seeing the 1 club differences.

Just giving some suggestions to look into to help you out.
 
Not trying to be rude, but I'm sorry but I just don't see how you think the Bridgestone clubs are going to improve your proximity to the hole? A certain club isn't going to help in that department, improving your aim and controlling your distance will. As far as a club less long, you might want to check the lofts of the two clubs they might be totally different and this could be the issue. So could the shaft, length, etc... if your going to compare you need to compare apples to apples.

That being said, if you feel the J40's will make you a improve, then go for it! In the end its what you feel comfortable with.
 
For me, the loss of distance with the J40s is worth it if you're more accurate, so long as you can still reach greens in regulation. If you're more accurate with a J40 7i into the pin vs a SB 8i, then what is the problem? Just club up and make the birdie putt IMO.
 
Play what makes you happy.

But the SBs are not the reason why you are not getting closer. At least it doesn't sound like it.
 
jdtox said:
Not trying to be rude, but I'm sorry but I just don't see how you think the Bridgestone clubs are going to improve your proximity to the hole? A certain club isn't going to help in that department, improving your aim and controlling your distance will. As far as a club less long, you might want to check the lofts of the two clubs they might be totally different and this could be the issue. So could the shaft, length, etc... if your going to compare you need to compare apples to apples.

That being said, if you feel the J40's will make you a improve, then go for it! In the end its what you feel comfortable with.
Click to expand...

The shaft length is almost identical on every club. The lofts are obviously much stronger on the SB's than the J40's. The reason I seem to hit the Bridgestones closer to the hole and have more control/feel/etc. could absolutely be due to the shafts and not necessarily the club heads themselves. The SB's have the stock regular flex shafts in them while the J40's have Project X Flighted 5.0 shafts. I don't know of a way where I could compare the shafts and have it be an apples v. apples comparison unless I had the ability to change heads/etc.

Can anyone out there provide their expertise as to the specific differences between the Project X 5.0 Flighted shafts and the stock Speedblade regular flex shafts? FWIW, my swing speed with a Speedblade 7 iron is ~73mph and I hit the SB 7 iron (30.5 degree loft) about 160 with 150+ carry. I hit the Bridgestone 6 iron (30 degree loft) about the same distance but do not know the swing speed. The ball fight with the Bridgestone is a very slight draw/almost straight with me hitting just a regular straight shot. The shot shape of the SB 7 iron is a bit more of a draw but it also has the tendency to balloon a bit and is a bit harder to control depending on what I'm aiming at.
 
I've been playing muscle cavity irons for quite awhile now. I will say, that working the ball between a GI and players iron shouldn't be that different, at least in some of my own testing of GI irons over the past few years.

It should be easier to hit out of the rough with player's irons rather than GI irons, assuming of course you are hitting the sweet spot.

Back when I went from GI to my MC (not sure I'd call them players irons, but something in the middle), I did see a loss in distance, but it was offset by improved accuracy at the time.

~Rock
 
Mulligan9111 said:
GI vs Players and Cast vs Forged have no real bearing on "working the ball". GI clubs mainly provide forgiveness on off-centered shots and help golfers get the ball in the air easier. Cast vs Forged is just the manufacturing process for the club.

The swing is what causes the ball to move (working the ball), not the club.
Click to expand...

I agree. I have GI clubs and I can hit the longer clubs either direction with ease. Thing I like the most about GI irons, is that I can get a little steep on some shots and I don't have to worry near as much about chunking up a big divot.
 
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