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TaylorMade Golf - A Struggle At The Top?

SuperStroke
blugold said:
It is the best selling 2014 driver, at least I thought I read that.
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That's cool, but its also NOT the best driver for the majority of golfers. That is what I am speaking on, I know you adore it, but the numbers don't lie for amateurs and the results on off center hits. There is a reason around here its the driver I see the most in the used bins, traditional TM am's flocked to the new driver and then realized it jsut was not best for them like their R1's or R11's were.

IMO you MUST have something that allows you to meet all needs in the market of golfers, if that is an adjustable factor to manipulate the CG back some, then fine, whatever, but there needs to be something.
 
TaylorMade Golf - A Struggle At The Top?

Jman said:
That's cool, but its also NOT the best driver for the majority of golfers. That is what I am speaking on, I know you adore it, but the numbers don't lie for amateurs and the results on off center hits. There is a reason around here its the driver I see the most in the used bins, traditional TM am's flocked to the new driver and then realized it jsut was not best for them like their R1's or R11's were.

IMO you MUST have something that allows you to meet all needs in the market of golfers, if that is an adjustable factor to manipulate the CG back some, then fine, whatever, but there needs to be something.
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Please don't get me wrong. I am not defending that driver or the line as a whole. It's not hard to see that the engine sputtered a bit at Taylormade this year.

It goes back to the marketing. How do you market low/forward and then release and advertise an "other" driver.
 
blugold said:
Please don't get me wrong. I am not defending that driver or the line as a whole. It's not hard to see that the engine sputtered a bit at Taylormade this year.

It goes back to the marketing. How do you market low/forward and then release and advertise an "other" driver.
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That is their job to figure out.

Perhaps the balls out, all in, all or nothing marketing is part of the issue.
 
They do it with their iron lines. They say the Tour Preferred is for the better player and then market the speedblade and SLDR lines for everyone.
 
What a great article Jb. Thanks for taking the time to comment on what I feel is an issue hampering many companies.

I feel that Tmades problem is. Not with their product release schedule but more so along the lines of inventory management. Yes you then are faced with the issue of back orders, but if you really we an not the best product out there for your swing, shouldn't one be willing to wait for 24 hr/overnight shipping?

Or perhaps maybe what companies should start doing is maybe have "limited releases" of clubs to test the waters and gauge interest and plan inventory projections? So that way huge box stores wouldn't be left with too many clubs people no longer want or forced to almost give them away.

Either way, I think Tmade needs to take a step back and think about realistic growth numbers instead of trying to just over saturate the market...

It is great they hold the title of number one driver on your. And I believe they also have the number one irons (or did?)

I am a huge fan of tmade products. They used to have the best everything to an extent. However now there are several other top companies so it is becoming more and more difficult to stay relevant. I think tmade will need to shrink before anything else. Will be interesting to see how they move forward.
 
Continued good comments in here.

I've read the whole thread But if this was discussed before I missed it and apologized.

JB, is it possible they could release the 2015 lineup in 2014 to get a bump in 3rd or 4th quarter they weren't expecting. One is that physically possible meaning would the product be ready and would it be a move of desperation.

I know in my industry and probably most, the biggest expense that is controllable is labor. And if the revenue numbers are falling far short if expectations, then usually the people at top expect to see some costs cut.

I always hate hearing and seeing good people lose jobs.
But it may ultimately be where this is headed.
 
CAA_Beat said:
Continued good comments in here.

I've read the whole thread But if this was discussed before I missed it and apologized.

JB, is it possible they could release the 2015 lineup in 2014 to get a bump in 3rd or 4th quarter they weren't expecting. One is that physically possible meaning would the product be ready and would it be a move of desperation.

I know in my industry and probably most, the biggest expense that is controllable is labor. And if the revenue numbers are falling far short if expectations, then usually the people at top expect to see some costs cut.

I always hate hearing and seeing good people lose jobs.
But it may ultimately be where this is headed.
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I think we saw that with SLDR. Possible? Yes. Likely? Million dollar question. Normal years I would say yes, but this year, SLDR continues to be decent and they are all in on the name with SLDR S and the irons.
 
Boy that would scare me to death to try to rush the 15 line forward. So many things to be done,production,molds,R&D briefs AND without correct samples.Do not forget, kinda like a Marvel movie each product that is good is kind of a prelude or tease to the next new updated version.
Sometimes you just have to take your beating and come back smarter the next time.I agree with JB that something major will be coming down from TMAG and perhaps from Adidas Germany within thirty days.
JB said:
I think we saw that with SLDR. Possible? Yes. Likely? Million dollar question. Normal years I would say yes, but this year, SLDR continues to be decent and they are all in on the name with SLDR S and the irons.
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annsguy said:
Boy that would scare me to death to try to rush the 15 line forward. So many things to be done,production,molds,R&D briefs AND without correct samples.Do not forget, kinda like a Marvel movie each product that is good is kind of a prelude or tease to the next new updated version.
Sometimes you just have to take your beating and come back smarter the next time.I agree with JB that something major will be coming down from TMAG and perhaps from Adidas Germany within thirty days.
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I'm certainly not on the inside but from what I have learned in the past. The 2015 stuff for most companies are well past those stages. Mostly ready to ship, but just under wraps until they are ready to market them.

That said I do tend to agree with your statement about just taking this year for what it is and move forward.
 
annsguy said:
Boy that would scare me to death to try to rush the 15 line forward. So many things to be done,production,molds,R&D briefs AND without correct samples.Do not forget, kinda like a Marvel movie each product that is good is kind of a prelude or tease to the next new updated version.
Sometimes you just have to take your beating and come back smarter the next time.I agree with JB that something major will be coming down from TMAG and perhaps from Adidas Germany within thirty days.
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I believe they rushed/bumped the SLDR as well as the Jetspeed stuff last year.
 
You are actually correct. They have to be in production but they usually do not deliver product into the dock(LA or San Diego I assume)too early prior to shipping to major accounts(Direct container shipments from the docks to the chains) then smaller orders to mom and pops. I guess marketing could make it happen but so much point of sales stuff to be ordered. Stuff for players, etc.
CAA_Beat said:
I'm certainly not on the inside but from what I have learned in the past. The 2015 stuff for most companies are well past those stages. Mostly ready to ship, but just under wraps until they are ready to market them.

That said I do tend to agree with your statement about just taking this year for what it is and move forward.
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Great conversation in here guys. Always love hearing everybody's thoughts on the business side of things.
 
I know with all of the good will you create for THP it is dificult dealing with all this bad news.When I see how big the business of golf and other sports has become in this country it makes me realize we are a vey competitive society.It is too simple to say it is only a game when you deal in these kind of dollars.What cannot be forgotten is the technology TMAG has brought to the industry and with it the sense that everyone has to step up if they want to play in the equipment side of the business.
JB said:
Great conversation in here guys. Always love hearing everybody's thoughts on the business side of things.
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I enjoyed your article JB, good stuff. Having (admittedly) skimmed a few pages of the comments, there are a lot of great and knowledgeable posts in here. My take is nothing off the way, but I just wanted to respond to how I felt.
TaylorMade Golf, and the industry as a whole, really cranks out the products. I follow it now, more than the past, but ever since they started pushing product(s) out as fast, it calls into question as to why (for me). I recall back in the early 90's, if you wanted a GOOD high end club, you had the Big Bertha line, the TaylorMade Burner line, The King Cobra line and a few others. That was what you had to choose from. Typically, I'd get an Edwin Watts magazine in the mail and there was one, two page spread for the irons and one two page spread for the woods for each OEM....if that! Sometimes they just had one, two page spread for the irons and woods together. Maybe I'm remembering wrong.
Now, we have multiple line ups, two tiers of clubs from each OEM dropping each year, sometime more. While I feel that this is ok, and choices are great for everyone to have. Now, honestly as a consumer, I find myself thinking things like.

"Well, since I didn't pick up an Alpha at the beginning of the summer, then I should probably wait and see what comes out this winter instead. Since chances are the new tech and look on the new model will probably rock. Then, if I don't like it I can always pick it up on CallawayProOwned for half of what it is now."

This feels counter productive for a business model to me. Not that I don't think a company shouldn't continue to up it's products and tech, but when they do this SO fast! It's not as though this is the auto industry where they just touch and tweak a lineup, but that it stays the same for 4 to 6 years. Still, I think that if they focused on a line up for a full year, rather than 6 months, they could sell more and would inventory sales?
 
Interesting thoughts Jay. Thanks for sharing.
 
I've certainly been through a bunch of new gear year after year but I will say that over the past few months I've come to accept that the gear may not be providing exponential improvements that justify a change. We get caught up in new equipment unveilings because OEM's controlled by Wall Street or Private-Equity need to show growth to increase their value but is there really value in buying the latest and greatest - I'm not convinced universally that is the case. In the past week I found 2 never hit TM Superfast TP Tour heads in a box in my garage. I immediately shafted up one of these 2008 heads and played it for 3 rounds over the weekend. 3 rounds isn't enough to make a declarative statement but I can say that I wasn't shorter then anything else on the market (may have been a bit longer), I was less accurate (was probably a bit straighter), and I certainly didn't feel as if I was behind the times with a 6 year old driver in my hands. I guess the point is we are likely buying just to buy and when that realization hits that doesn't fit the business model these OEM's need to survive.
 
NoLine said:
I've certainly been through a bunch of new gear year after year but I will say that over the past few months I've come to accept that the gear may not be providing exponential improvements that justify a change. We get caught up in new equipment unveilings because OEM's controlled by Wall Street or Private-Equity need to show growth to increase their value but is there really value in buying the latest and greatest - I'm not convinced universally that is the case. In the past week I found 2 never hit TM Superfast TP Tour heads in a box in my garage. I immediately shafted up one of these 2008 heads and played it for 3 rounds over the weekend. 3 rounds isn't enough to make a declarative statement but I can say that I wasn't shorter then anything else on the market (may have been a bit longer), I was less accurate (was probably a bit straighter), and I certainly didn't feel as if I was behind the times with a 6 year old driver in my hands. I guess the point is we are likely buying just to buy and when that realization hits that doesn't fit the business model these OEM's need to survive.
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Im not diminishing the findings, but didnt the SupeFast come out in 2010? Or am I thinking of something else? I thought SuperFast was 2010 and 2.0 was 2011. Maybe I am losing my mind...Not a far trip. :D
 
JB said:
Im not diminishing the findings, but didnt the SupeFast come out in 2010? Or am I thinking of something else? I thought SuperFast was 2010 and 2.0 was 2011. Maybe I am losing my mind...Not a far trip. :D
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I thought the Superfast came out the same year as the SuperTri, 2010
 
JB said:
Im not diminishing the findings, but didnt the SupeFast come out in 2010? Or am I thinking of something else? I thought SuperFast was 2010 and 2.0 was 2011. Maybe I am losing my mind...Not a far trip. :D
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No, it's my mind that took that trip - I actually shafted up the Burner TP from 08 - here I was thinking it was a Superfast!
 
NoLine said:
No, it's my mind that took that trip - I actually shafted up the Burner TP from 08 - here I was thinking it was a Superfast!
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Haha...Welcome to my world brother. I love that thing upstairs all the time.
 
I'm a TaylorMade guy, however I'm still using the r9 SuperTri driver. The biggest reason is because I like it, the 2nd biggest reason is I'm not dropping $400 on a new driver. I just purchased an RBZ Stage 2 fairway wood because the price was dropped down to a more reasonable $118. Taylormade seems to come out with a new club every 6 months, and I refuse to believe these clubs have made huge technological advances in that kind of time frame. If they expect me to pay $2000 every 6 months with re-hashed tech, it's not going to happen.

Even if I was in the market for a new driver, I would first look for a deal on the previous year's model. Then I would look for a used club that does not have major cosmetic damage. My best friends and I grew up playing together on our high school golf team. We are all golf junkies, and I know for a fact even though some of them are very well off, they would do the exact same thing.

For me I notice technological differences mostly in my misses not missing as much as they should. But as far as distance, I hit the same spots in my local golf course that I was hitting in high school with a TaylorMade Burner bubble driver and a TopFlite XL2000.
 
Adams Golf HQ to close, TaylorMade Golf sales in decline. This is not real shocking in my mind. I have a feeling Adams will soon not exist.
I found a very interesting article which might help to understand some of TMAG's issues.

I just hope Callaway does not fall to TMAG's decisions of coming out with new clubs every 6 months. I think a lot of the equipment companies should follow the product cycle of Ping and Titleist and that is release new products every 2 years. I think they would have a better brand following if they would.
 
vthokies said:
Adams Golf HQ to close, TaylorMade Golf sales in decline. This is not real shocking in my mind. I have a feeling Adams will soon not exist.
I found a very interesting article which might help to understand some of TMAG's issues.

I just hope Callaway does not fall to TMAG's decisions of coming out with new clubs every 6 months. I think a lot of the equipment companies should follow the product cycle of Ping and Titleist and that is release new products every 2 years. I think they would have a better brand following if they would.
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This is being discussed here http://www.thehackersparadise.com/f...Q-and-Consolidate-Operation-in-Carlsbad/page5.

Also, I have removed the link to an external site.
 
vthokies said:
Adams Golf HQ to close, TaylorMade Golf sales in decline. This is not real shocking in my mind. I have a feeling Adams will soon not exist.
I found a very interesting article which might help to understand some of TMAG's issues.

I just hope Callaway does not fall to TMAG's decisions of coming out with new clubs every 6 months. I think a lot of the equipment companies should follow the product cycle of Ping and Titleist and that is release new products every 2 years. I think they would have a better brand following if they would.
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While they refresh current product lines (such as G series) every 2 years, they (meaning Ping) certainly do not only have a 2 year release cycle. They launch products each and every year and have just as many lines out as most. G, I, Anser, S, Rapture, etc.
 
TaylorMade Golf - A Struggle At The Top?

aggressive product cycles are fine when they sell quickly. A problem when they don't. Imagine a store used to a certain volume. They buy the new line accordingly and it bombs. You're left with a lot of expensive stock and in a declining market, can't sell them with "Sales", but have to dump them at clearance prices. Then the new model comes out and you're stuck.

For the store, they buy more cautiously. The OEM sees sales decline. It a public company you then see all kinds of short-sighted behavior as leaders try to buoy stock price. Cost-cutting of course becomes the only way to do that in the short term.

Harm is almost always done by this process. Shame for the folks at Adams. They "buyee" almost always loses.
 
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