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The Official 2015 NFL Thread

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No way he should be suspended when the report finds that he was "Generally Aware". Whether you believe he was or not, it would open up a can of worms like no other if any suspension was levied when the findings reveal nothing as fact.
 
JB said:
No way he should be suspended when the report finds that he was "Generally Aware". Whether you believe he was or not, it would open up a can of worms like no other if any suspension was levied when the findings reveal nothing as fact.
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I have not read the report, but it sounds pretty clear he knew about it and it was being done for him. Plus wasn't he uncooperative with the investigation?
 
Wake said:
I have not read the report, but it sounds pretty clear he knew about it and it was being done for him. Plus wasn't he uncooperative with the investigation?
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Read over the report. I know people make the judgement (right or wrong) of guilt rather quickly, but after reading the whole thing, a suspension based on "generally aware" is laughable. If they left things out of the report, then that is on them, but if the NFL goes this route, they are opening a can of worms that no team wants them to open.

Think about it, any suspicion of any player breaking any rule, and that player could be suspended on the basis of "Generally Aware".
 
JB said:
Read over the report. I know people make the judgement (right or wrong) of guilt rather quickly, but after reading the whole thing, a suspension based on "generally aware" is laughable. If they left things out of the report, then that is on them, but if the NFL goes this route, they are opening a can of worms that no team wants them to open.

Think about it, any suspicion of any player breaking any rule, and that player could be suspended on the basis of "Generally Aware".
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I frankly don't care enough to read 200 pages on it. If he doesn't get suspended I won't lose sleep. To me an NFL team cheated, and won a super bowl NY doing so. Someone other than the ball boy needs to be punished. If it is found that he was aware of it, it was being done for his benefit, he lied about it, and he didn't cooperate, then I'm good with it being him.
 
I'm glad that the NFL finally determined that the Parriots were cheating.

Hopefully, some action will be taken so the Patriots won't benefit from the cheating. Hopefully something can be done before the Patriots play the last Super Bowl that they just won...


Oh.
 
JB said:
Read over the report. I know people make the judgement (right or wrong) of guilt rather quickly, but after reading the whole thing, a suspension based on "generally aware" is laughable. If they left things out of the report, then that is on them, but if the NFL goes this route, they are opening a can of worms that no team wants them to open.

Think about it, any suspicion of any player breaking any rule, and that player could be suspended on the basis of "Generally Aware".
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Outside of a confession from Tom himself, or a smoking gun from Brady's text/emails which Brady denied access to...how could they say more than probably or generally aware though? They don't have the ability to compel that information, so it is impossible for them to speak in absolutes. I think the report damns Brady to the maximum extent they could given the access they had and I do think Goodell suspends him. I also think these equipment guys start talking more as I imagine they're no longer employed by the Pats at this point, and someone in the press is going to make them an offer... unless that's what the hour of phone calls after the 19th between Brady and this guy were about, and Tom agreed to match any offer.
 
So a bunch of of the Colts balls were underinflated too. Funny how we didn't hear anything about that until now. It's almost as if someone in the NFL offices was out to get the Patriots.
 
Don't really care if they were deflated or not, but the texts are worth your time. I really hope my texts are never out there for the world to see.
 
jlukes said:
So a bunch of of the Colts balls were underinflated too. Funny how we didn't hear anything about that until now. It's almost as if someone in the NFL offices was out to get the Patriots.
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unless i misread, a few balls were under by one person's measurement, but over by anothers. No tests where both measurements were both under. I don't know about you, but generally when i check the air in my tires, if i check it again it's slightly different, and usually less since some air escapes every time you check. I think that's why no one is making an issue out of it.
 
Miller Time said:
Don't really care if they were deflated or not, but the texts are worth your time. I really hope my texts are never out there for the world to see.
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Bird and JJ would probably be a hoot to have a beer with.
 
Martsy said:
unless i misread, a few balls were under by one person's measurement, but over by anothers. No tests where both measurements were both under. I don't know about you, but generally when i check the air in my tires, if i check it again it's slightly different, and usually less since some air escapes every time you check. I think that's why no one is making an issue out of it.
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I guess my point was that clearly the system for measuring the footballs is inexact at best. There is no doubt that the equipment guys were up to no good (whether it be by Brady's command or not), but the fact that the NFL can't even get their story straight and put a consistent process in place boggles my mind.
 
Martsy said:
unless i misread, a few balls were under by one person's measurement, but over by anothers. No tests where both measurements were both under. I don't know about you, but generally when i check the air in my tires, if i check it again it's slightly different, and usually less since some air escapes every time you check. I think that's why no one is making an issue out of it.
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They used two different gauges, one read higher than the other consistently. The pressure of all the footballs dropped after being out in the cold, and the report discusses that, it just mentions that the percentage of drops between the two sets of footballs would indicate possible human involvement in the Patriots game balls. What it doesn't mention is that after they inflated the Patriots game balls back to 12.5 psi during half time, the Patriots played better.
 
jlukes said:
I guess my point was that clearly the system for measuring the footballs is inexact at best. There is no doubt that the equipment guys were up to no good (whether it be by Brady's command or not), but the fact that the NFL can't even get their story straight and put a consistent process in plays boggles my mind.
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Absolutely correct. No question about it. Reading through that entire thing shows how inexact this is and you could see the fans rushing to judgement well before the findings were released. Im no Patriots fan, but as I mentioned previously, opening a can of worms with suspensions on "Generally Aware" and an inexact science of measurements leads to any player being suspended at any time regardless of situation because someone believes they might be guilty or guilty by association. Ironically look where the Patriots played better during that game...
 
JB said:
Absolutely correct. No question about it. Reading through that entire thing shows how inexact this is and you could see the fans rushing to judgement well before the findings were released. Im no Patriots fan, but as I mentioned previously, opening a can of worms with suspensions on "Generally Aware" and an inexact science of measurements leads to any player being suspended at any time regardless of situation because someone believes they might be guilty or guilty by association. Ironically look where the Patriots played better during that game...
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So, do you think no punishment should be handed down? Just curious.
 
Sanzabar said:
So, do you think no punishment should be handed down? Just curious.
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Here's the first line from the conclusion of the report regarding the game balls:
Based on the evidence developed in connection with the investigation and

summarized in this Report, we have concluded that it is more probable than not that New

England Patriots personnel participated in violations of the NFL Playing Rules and were

involved in a deliberate attempt to circumvent those rules.
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Punishment for more probable that not involvement? For Brady specifically, its even more vague:

Based on the evidence, we also have concluded that it is more probable than not that

Tom Brady was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities of McNally and

Jastremski involving the release of air from Patriots game balls.
7
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That's like sitting in the witness stand in court and going, "Meh, he may have known those other guys were doing something."
 
Greg Kulbick said:
What it doesn't mention is that after they inflated the Patriots game balls back to 12.5 psi during half time, the Patriots played better.
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Probably because it's completely irrelevant...would be a similar argument to say A-rod is not really guilty of juicing in 2013 because his stats were down.

Greg Kulbick said:
That's like sitting in the witness stand in court and going, "Meh, he may have known those other guys were doing something."
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actually re-read that again. "He was at least, generally aware". Meaning he did know for sure... just a question of how much. There's no "may" in that conclusion.
 
Martsy said:
Probably because it's completely irrelevant...would be a similar argument to say A-rod is not really guilty of juicing in 2013 because his stats were down.



actually re-read that again. "He was at least, generally aware". Meaning he did know for sure... just a question of how much. There's no "may" in that conclusion.
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Locker room guy reminds refs Brady likes the ball at 12.5 psi, then drops the air out of the ball. Ref puts air back in ball to 12.5 psi and Brady plays better. In more than one text he states he's going to mess with the ball to put it at a level Brady wouldn't like.

You're leaving off the "...more probable than not..." part. They're basing their conclusion off reading between the lines of text messages between an equipment guy and a locker room attendant.
 
Greg Kulbick said:
Locker room guy reminds refs Brady likes the ball at 12.5 psi, then drops the air out of the ball. Ref puts air back in ball to 12.5 psi and Brady plays better.

You're leaving off the "...more probable than not..." part. They're basing their conclusion off reading between the lines of text messages between an equipment guy and a locker room attendant.
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The conclusions read like they were written by a careful attorney. That language translates into normal person talk for "hell yes they did it".
 
more than probable? everyone knew it was more than probable months ago :laughing:
 
tequila4kapp said:
The conclusions read like they were written by a careful attorney. That language translates into normal person talk for "hell yes they did it".
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If you're a commissioner of a sports league that is currently under fire for having questionable punishments from case to case, do you want to base it off careful wording, or some dude going, "Hell yes they did it"?
 
Greg Kulbick said:
If you're a commissioner of a sports league that is currently under fire for having questionable punishments from case to case, do you want to base it off careful wording, or some dude going, "Hell yes they did it"?
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We probably aren't comfortable with it as fans because we are used to the standards used in a courtroom. But I don't know that there is any standard established for RG to use by the CBA when protecting the brand. "More probable than not" may well be the standard used by the league and it could be no accident at all that the report uses the language.
 
tequila4kapp said:
We probably aren't comfortable with it as fans because we are used to the standards used in a courtroom. But I don't know that there is any standard established for RG to use by the CBA when protecting the brand. "More probable than not" may well be the standard used by the league and it could be no accident at all that the report uses the language.
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Or they could just not be able to say with certainty.
 
Sharon Sharpe: 2-4 game suspension for Brady, season suspension for Belichik, and 1st round draft pick 2016-17, team gets maximum fine....

Claims that the coach didn't know about it? Sean Payton didn't know about it but he was the head coach...

All stipulations of course - but I would like to see that.
 
Greg Kulbick said:
Or they could just not be able to say with certainty.
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Honest question, in a scenario like this...what in your mind would be required to be able to say in an absolute, short of Tom admitting it, or video of Tom doing it himself?

Heck, there's no murder weapon in the Aaron Hernandez or video of him doing it either, but probable enough for a jury to determine he did it.

I guess I'm just not seeing the argument here on the language.
 
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