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James Harrison Message

Miller Time said:
So why can't a kid that finishes last get a trophy (even if it's smaller) than the champ? I don't see the difference.
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Why doesn't the guy that missed the cut, get the same as the guy who finished 35th?
 
Ok. I've followed this thread but stayed away from posting until now.

Society has become way to "sunshine and lollipops" on our kids. When I was a kid I did a lot of sports. I never got a trophy unless I earned it. I worked hard but I also had fun. It needs to be fun. My parents never pushed me but allowed me to pursue whatever I wanted to. Sports, computers, camps. I enjoyed it all. I was a very active kid. I excelled at competitive swimming but the medals or trophies were few. However when I did get one, I felt a sense of great accomplishment. Little did I know what a great life lesson I was getting at the time. I received hundreds of participant ribbons but the real gratification came from EARNING a medal. It taught me that if I want something I need to work to get it. Greatest life lesson.
Those lessons guided me in my career path. I worked my ass off to get where I am today. It wasn't handed to me. Nobody was going to hand anything to me. I earned it and I'm proud of what I've become as a father, husband and professional pilot.

These days our kids can't even fail grade school for fear it will damage their morale. Give me a break. One of my greatest motivators in school was being left behind a year. What aw we teaching our kids with this? For me it sends a message of "don't worry, you don't have to work hard to get ahead. Just make sure you have fun". That's not a very good message for these kids when they end up in the real world with nobody to hold their hand.
It's the same in sports. Sure lets make it fun first but let's teach them some valuable life lessons, namely enjoy the ride but to truly excel at something you must work hard to get it. If a kid works hard and doesn't get rewarded it teaches them a valuable lesson. Life is tough but you need to keep persevering through the diversity to truly succeed.

I don't blame the kids of today. Most of it falls on the path the parents choose to take. I just hope they guide their kids to become responsible adults when the realities of life smack them right in the face.


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I remember being really competitive at those ages. I was always competing against my brother and my friends but it was always fun to try to win. If I didn't win, I had to figure out what I needed to do to win. That is a parallel for life. Life has winners and losers, and if we don't know how to or want to win at the little things like like sports, how can we win in life? Set goal, work towards achieving goal, achieve goal, set new goal. It is a good life lesson, IMO.
 
Miller Time said:
Genuine question: Should only the winner of a golf tournament get the entire purse? Should you only be rewarded for winning and nothing else?
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I don't think this necessarily about praising and raising up the winner, but rather teaching kids the values in losing. That losing is a fact of life that they need to learn to deal with, accept and move on from.
Not "hey we lost, but guess what - I still get a trophy". I have kids that are 19, 8 and 2. My older ones have participated and received trophies just for participation and guess where they are - in the trash. By their own accord. It doesn't mean much, even to them if the proper values are instilled, to get a trophy just for participating. The joy of playing is the reward for participating. If the child doesn't want to participate in the given sport, then their parents should not have signed them up for it.
 
huhhh said:
Why doesn't the guy that missed the cut, get the same as the guy who finished 35th?
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Exactly. I'm fine with whatever the tourney agrees on. If a league decides to give trophies to everyone for participating, I don't think it teaches a kid a bad lesson. If they only give trophies to the champs, I'm fine with that, too.
 
If people think a participation trophy is what shapes their kids as human beings, and influences their mentality, they suck at parenting.
 
Hawk said:
You know what I'm saying. There isn't a generation of kids that are out there unable to understand the difference between winning and losing because of a gesture like that. I've done three different leagues in three sports and they are keeping score long before it's required. You are a pretty good example of somebody that enjoyed a rec league and came out just fine - and there are easily millions of people just like you.

Funny thing is I never got any of my teams trophies, but it's because I'm cheap. I figured I already gave them my time and that was plenty. Guess what? Not one kid or one parent has ever said a thing about it. It's a made up problem.
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I don't disagree, but I think to most the participation trophy is the figurehead for the whole "everyone is a winner" mentality. I certainly saw it with other parents growing up, they were upset because their kid set the bench and it hurt their feelings. They were upset because they were picked later for pickup games. They were upset because another kid got an award and their kid didn't. The same thing applied to school events not just sports, and you would see it even in high school.
 
It's really not about 8yo baseball. It's about a culture that says you don't have to work to get reward, all you have to do is show up. It came from an ideal that high self esteem automatically leads to success. Which is not true. Studies have shown the least self esteemed group of kids in the US (Asian Americans) are also, statistically, the most successful.

Other studies have been conducted with college students of this generation. 1/3 thought that showing up for class should get them at least a B. 2/3 thought if they explained to the professor they were trying hard, their grade should just be improved. This stuff does have an effect.

http://www.generationme.org/about-book.html
 
Wake said:
I don't disagree, but I think to most the participation trophy is the figurehead for the whole "everyone is a winner" mentality. I certainly saw it with other parents growing up, they were upset because their kid set the bench and it hurt their feelings. They were upset because they were picked later for pickup games. They were upset because another kid got an award and their kid didn't. The same thing applied to school events not just sports, and you would see it even in high school.
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Sounds like a parent problem to me.

My buddy's son didn't get picked for his traveling team next year. My buddy complained about it to me, but he accepted it. What are you going to do? It's his son - of course he wants him to succeed. You'll understand that one day. They are going to try out for some other teams, but yea - he vented initially.

Kids still fail in school, regardless of what people say.

I don't know man. I'm around a ton of kids between coaching and volunteer work I do at my son's school. They are just normal kids and every one is a little different. There are some very talented ones, some really smart ones, and some little sh!ts. Just like when I was a kid. Like I said - every generation of adults has criticized the next generation forever. And the world is still turning.
 
Don't really agree with him posting this to instagram, but I do support his message. I was never more proud of my little niece (sports wise) than I was when she was 8 years old given a participation trophy for soccer. In front of everybody she says "but we didn't even score a goal". She didn't say anything about winning or losing, just that she was confused why they got something when they didn't do anything.

To each their own though. I just don't see anything wrong with teaching kids at a young age that they won't always succeed at everything they try and they won't always get something just for showing up.
 
Hawk said:
Sounds like a parent problem to me.

My buddy's son didn't get picked for his traveling team next year. My buddy complained about it to me, but he accepted it. What are you going to do? It's his son - of course he wants him to succeed. You'll understand that one day. They are going to try out for some other teams, but yea - he vented initially.

Kids still fail in school, regardless of what people say.

I don't know man. I'm around a ton of kids between coaching and volunteer work I do at my son's school. They are just normal kids and every one is a little different. There are some very talented ones, some really smart ones, and some little sh!ts. Just like when I was a kid. Like I said - every generation of adults has criticized the next generation forever. And the world is still turning.
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Love the half full way of thinking man. 100% agree with you also.
 
I'm a little mixed on this. I like the message. I think experiencing failure is important for everyone, and a lot of times it is more motivating and you can learn more from failing at something than winning.

I think of my daughter though. At age 4 we entered her into a kids fun run. She was 4 and we sneaked her in to the 5-7 age group. It was a mile race, she didn't win the race but she finished ahead a lot of the older kids. She got a medal at the end along with every other kid. She loved getting a medal and was excited to do the race again this year. Maybe it is the nature of running, but it wasn't about winning or losing, but finishing the race. I don't really see any negative side effect coming from her getting a medal there.

I haven't put her in to other organized sports yet, probably will try soccer soon, but even then I don't think I will have a problem either way if she gets a trophy. It's up to my wife and I to teach her correctly and getting a participation trophy or not shouldn't have an impact on the kind of person she is.
 
I wholeheartedly agree with a lot of what Hawk has said. I coach youth baseball and soccer. I don't have a problem with participation trophies when kids are still learning how the game works and you don't keep score. Or, as Kapp noted earlier, signing baseballs or some other memento. Once the leagues keep score and league standings, then participation trophies seem like overkill.

That being said, we, as parents and adults, need to remember that we are dealing with kids, not shorter, smaller adults. Sometimes, we forget to let them be kids and just have fun. For example, I worry about parents that instill a win-at-all-costs mentality on their kids - not because you shouldn't strive to win - but because the child's self worth and happiness may depend on whether they win or lose. My 8-year old has this win-at-all costs mentality and it is already hampering him. He hates losing so much that he resists trying new things, even within sports that he is good at. If he struggles at all, he pouts or gives up. It drives me crazy.

My five year old, on the other hand, just loves playing and really could care less who wins or loses. And because of this, he learns new things at a scary rate. To him, sports are fun. Period. His self worth is not dependent on whether or not he wins or loses. He just likes playing the game. And you know what, I'd be willing to bet my house that he will ultimately be far better at his chosen sport(s) than my older son.

(Dr. Gio Valiente has some insight into the two mentalities in Fearless Golf.)

I know this was a tangent but our kids absorb what we think is important, sometimes without having the mental and emotional maturity yet to understand the "why" we think it is important. As such, I don't hate participation trophies with the passion that some of you do. I get the purpose behind them, although I don't necessarily agree with participation trophies after a certain age and/or level.
 
I, as a parent, make sure I go over every game with my son. we talk about what he could do better and what he did well. He has steadily improved over the past 3 years and was invited to join a select team this year. He received trophies each of this 6 seasons. He had a moment of joy an then forgot about it. But he never forgot what we talked about or the 3 goals he scored a game.

It is our jobs as parents to let our kids be kids but impress upon them good values. If you are just patting hem on the head without feedback, then maybe they don't work hard. It's our jobs to raise our kids, not the coach or the system.
 
GolfFest said:
I haven't put her in to other organized sports yet, probably will try soccer soon, but even then I don't think I will have a problem either way if she gets a trophy. It's up to my wife and I to teach her correctly and getting a participation trophy or not shouldn't have an impact on the kind of person she is.
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At least in every road race I have ever run, everyone gets a medal. Doesn't matter if it's a 5K, 10K, or a marathon. You cross the line, you get a medal. Now winners of age groups, or the overall race tend to get more (maybe even money), but still everyone walked away with something.

Chalk it up to a memento of the time devoted to training and the competition, but calling all runners who accept the medal as indicative of some sort of entitlement would seem a bit heavy handed. Maybe just blame the organizers for fostering a "you get a medal, and you get a medal, everyone gets a medal!" mentality?
 
Holy moly how did I miss this thing blowing up.

I need to sift through all this and respond to a few people .

Also I don't believe I said you need to be successful in sports to be successful in life.

I said it taught me very important lessons in life that have helped ME succeed.

If you learned those lessons elsewhere then great. It has nothing to do with where you learned it but the lesson itself.

Be better than the rest and you will generally be rewarded. You don't deserve what everyone else gets just because you decided to "show up"

I'm not talking about 4 year olds or handicapped people either let's not be ridiculous .


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I'm UPSET that I never got a trophy for just being there, when I was growing up. Look how I (we) turned out....oh wait, we're fine. SMH
 
I guess I am in a mostly disagreement state from most of the board. Now participation awards once you are at a competitive state I agree with, earn it or nothing. At younger ages I am totally in agreement with participation awards. My daughter is 6 and not very much into sports. We rotate through different sports to see if anything catches her liking but mainly to keep her healthy and to get exercise. At the end of her soccer season (mostly soccer practices with scrimmages) everyone got a medal. She beamed after getting her medal and wanted to wear it to school and all. If the goal is to keep kids active and to get them interested in eventually doing sports competitively I am all in favor of the awards. Now once they get to a high enough level it should be based upon merit. I think it is really age and league dependent. What is the goal for the kid being there.
 
Miller Time said:
Genuine question: Should only the winner of a golf tournament get the entire purse? Should you only be rewarded for winning and nothing else?
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No, but the winner of the golf tournament is the only one who gets a trophy :alien:
 
deuce said:
At least in every road race I have ever run, everyone gets a medal. Doesn't matter if it's a 5K, 10K, or a marathon. You cross the line, you get a medal. Now winners of age groups, or the overall race tend to get more (maybe even money), but still everyone walked away with something.

Chalk it up to a memento of the time devoted to training and the competition, but calling all runners who accept the medal as indicative of some sort of entitlement would seem a bit heavy handed. Maybe just blame the organizers for fostering a "you get a medal, and you get a medal, everyone gets a medal!" mentality?
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Running is probably a poor example, as a lot of the runners aren't there to compete against each other, but themselves, or simply there to finish. My wife has done a few marathons, and I think anyone who completes a marathon has earned any medal they get. Of course completing a marathon involves more than simply showing up.
 
Hawk said:
Sounds like a parent problem to me.
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This is a HUGE part of it. My wife works at a gymnastics place and she gets parents all the time that think they know more about their kids skill than the professional coaches teaching them. A lot of them think their kids are going to be Olympians and get furious when they don't get bumped up in class levels when they're really not ready.
 
I guess Jordan Spieth should return his paycheck from the weekend. After all he didn't win.
 
This thread just reminds me of this:

"Spoiler tags for NSFW language."

Spoiler
 
Jugger18 said:
I guess Jordan Spieth should return his paycheck from the weekend. After all he didn't win.
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100% different. That's not a participation prize, he placed and earned 2nd. That comes with a paycheck. Ask Tiger how much money he won this week.

This isn't a 1st place or nothing thread, it's about throwing out medals and prizes for showing up. Not placing in a tournament, just showing up. No one is saying if kids work and play well and place 3rd in a tournament that they shouldn't get 3rd place medals. they absolutely should. It's that way in almost every sport. This is about kids basically finishing last yet still getting trophies or awards.
 
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