2020 NFL Thread

[stevie-a]

And keep looking for the golden unicorn at the QB spot? Not that simple & not many Mahomes that come floating along down the river that one can pluck for $7M a year. But hey, I’m sure Cincy would have probably kept Dalton if he was any good, right? Gotta keep that 8-8 record streak going!!

So is Dak a Mahomes in waiting? Is Dak worth $30m/per in your opinion? We both know the answer is NO to both.

So why (over)pay Dak and be stuck with him for 3-4 more years? Pay Dalton much less, look for options in the draft/trade and move on.

We already screwed ourselves pay paying Zeke 2 years too early...so don't make a similar mistake here.



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[Scorp]

He could have paid him because Dak will get $31m this season on the franchise tag...that could be pulled if they are willing to let him walk...and that money could go to Brady or anyone else.

Interesting discussion that has begun is talk of pulling the tag and going with Dalton since McCarthy is new here and has no tie to Dak. In the end, Dak is not worth $30m plus in my opinion and Dalton is a nice insurance card for a season (or 2-3) while you search for a long term replacement. Hell, Dalton is only 32....sooooo.....

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let Dak walk. Where would he go? Jacksonville? New England? That's an interesting theory... was Dalton's issue a lame Oline? My co worker would say yes. But it also could have been the Bengals head coach being on staff for 18 years, their OC being with the team in some form for 25... that team needed a change. And a new owner and if not that, at least a GM that's not the owner or related to the owner.

 

[Nate]

But it also could have been the Bengals head coach being on staff for 18 years, their OC being with the team in some form for 25... that team needed a change. And a new owner and if not that, at least a GM that's not the owner or related to the owner.

Are you talking about the Bengals or the Cowboys here. LOL.

Facts are @stevie-a Darth Jones will pay Dak cause he’s done it each & every time when he loves players. I put it at $35-37M a year when it’s said & done.

 

[stevie-a]

let Dak walk. Where would he go? Jacksonville? New England? That's an interesting theory... was Dalton's issue a lame Oline? My co worker would say yes. But it also could have been the Bengals head coach being on staff for 18 years, their OC being with the team in some form for 25... that team needed a change. And a new owner and if not that, at least a GM that's not the owner or related to the owner.

Exactly...no one wants Dak for $30m. What's amazing that Dak has not signed the franchise tag offer, and that he really believes he's worth top dollar. Remind me again what has he done? Not much...abd definitely nothing worthy of being a top 5 paid QB.

As for Dalton and the Bengals, I agree with your comments about the front office. Dalton is not terrible and put him behind Dallas' o-line and he might show some (major) signs of life.

Let's also not forget that Dak was a 4th round after-thought that was forced into action after Romo got hurt. It wasn't like the Cowboys drafted him expecting him to be the heir apparent...so lets drop this idea that we are giving up on something...

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[stevie-a]

Facts are @stevie-a Darth Jones will pay Dak cause he’s done it each & every time when he loves players. I put it at $35-37M a year when it’s said & done.

Ohh, we both know that'll happen...and then we'll be cap-strung for the foreseeable future...again... Some things never change.



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[BigMac]

So is Dak a Mahomes in waiting? Is Dak worth $30m/per in your opinion? We both know the answer is NO to both.

So why (over)pay Dak and be stuck with him for 3-4 more years? Pay Dalton much less, look for options in the draft/trade and move on.

We already screwed ourselves pay paying Zeke 2 years too early...so don't make a similar mistake here.

Thing is, whether he's worth it or not, that's where the market is at for higher-tier veteran QBs - and while Dak may not be an elite QB, I think he definitely falls into at least the second tier. So it's either pay the man or go looking for your franchise QB, which don't exactly grow on trees. There aren't a lot of options out there on the trade market, and the draft is always a crapshoot - look back at all the first-round QBs who have turned out to be epic busts.

Just my opinion, but I don't think Dalton is the short-term answer and he's certainly not the long-term answer. He strikes me as another Flacco - a mediocre game manager who could have a brief flash of success if all the right pieces were in place around him and the stars lined up just right, but he's not a franchise QB.

 

[BigMac]

Let's also not forget that Dak was a 4th round after-thought that was forced into action after Romo got hurt. It wasn't like the Cowboys drafted him expecting him to be the heir apparent...so lets drop this idea that we are giving up on something...

I remember a certain 6th round afterthought QB who was forced into action after the starter got hurt. It wasn't like that team drafted him expecting him to be their heir apparent, but it turned out rather well for them over the next 19 years. Certainly doesn't always work out that way, but it happens.

 

[stevie-a]

I remember a certain 6th round afterthought QB who was forced into action after the starter got hurt. It wasn't like that team drafted him expecting him to be their heir apparent, but it turned out rather well for them over the next 19 years. Certainly doesn't always work out that way, but it happens.

Big difference...that 6th round pick won multiple playoff games and the Super Bowl the season he was forced into action. He also showed that he alone could manage a game... Has Dak done either? No. I'm just not sure he's the guy you reset the QB market with. Obviously JJ doesn't think so either otherwise this deal would have been done long ago.

Dak is a top 10-15 QB that has flourished with surrounding talent. Need I remind anyone what the Dallas offense looked like prior to Cooper being added...?

For once, I think JJ is handling this right. Stick to the franchise tag offer (if you are gonna keep him...) and force his hand with Dalton as a safeguard. I may be alone with this opinion, but I think Dalton and Dak are equals and one comes with a much lower price tag.



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[BigMac]

...I may be alone with this opinion, but I think Dalton and Dak are equals and one comes with a much lower price tag.

Oooh, that's a hot take right there!

I don't really have a dog in the fight as I'm only a casual Dallas fan, but I'll be interested to see how other Cowboys fans feel about that.

 

[Nate]

but I think Dalton and Dak are equals and one comes with a much lower price tag.

Now I know the Texas sun has been beating down on that old head of yours way too much lately from all that golf playing you are doing. Let's take a look at how "equal" they are:

Age, Dak- 26 / RedJr - 32 (Dak 1-0)
Games played in 19, Dak - 16 / RedJr - 13 (Dak 2-0)
Passing % - Dak - 65% / RedJr - 59% (Dak 3-0)
Passing Yds, Dak - 4,900 / RedJr - 3,4900 (Dak 4-0)
Yds Attempt, Dak - 8.2 / RedJr - 6.6 (Dak 5-0)
TD's, Dak -30 / RedJr - 16 (Dak 6-0)
Int's, Dak - 11 / RedJr - 14 (Dak 7-0)
Sacked, Dak -23 / RedJr - 37 (Dak 8-0)
Rushing, Dak - 277yds / RedJr - 73 (Dak 9-0)
Rushing TD's, Dak - 3 / RedJr - 4 (Dak 9-1)
Games missed last 2 years, Dak - 0, RedJr - 8 (Dak 10-1)

Throw in 2017 stats for Red since he only played 11 games in 2018 and Dak goes (14-3) heads up

Listen, as @JB always says, stats can be used and manipulated for arguments. But my man, Dak and Andy are not equal. And don't even go with the "but if he played on this team the last few years, his stats would be better!" No, stop it.

Let's play some golf soon!

 

[Scorp]

Exactly...no one wants Dak for $30m. What's amazing that Dak has not signed the franchise tag offer, and that he really believes he's worth top dollar. Remind me again what has he done? Not much...abd definitely nothing worthy of being a top 5 paid QB.

As for Dalton and the Bengals, I agree with your comments about the front office. Dalton is not terrible and put him behind Dallas' o-line and he might show some (major) signs of life.

Let's also not forget that Dak was a 4th round after-thought that was forced into action after Romo got hurt. It wasn't like the Cowboys drafted him expecting him to be the heir apparent...so lets drop this idea that we are giving up on something...

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Question for you. Since you're willing to walk away from Dak, would you take Aaron Rogers? He doesn't seem happy... has won superbowls... would he be worth the investment or is he in the beginning stages of a decline?

And you said Dak was surrounded by talent... which I won't argue. What more would it take to push Dak over the top and get the Cowboys through the playoffs and another superbowl?

 

[JB]

Question for you. Since you're willing to walk away from Dak, would you take Aaron Rogers? He doesn't seem happy... has won superbowls... would he be worth the investment or is he in the beginning stages of a decline?

And you said Dak was surrounded by talent... which I won't argue. What more would it take to push Dak over the top and get the Cowboys through the playoffs and another superbowl?

Crazy to think that Dak Prescott is going to cost more than Aaron Rodgers.
At the peak or decline...

 

[JB]

Now I know the Texas sun has been beating down on that old head of yours way too much lately from all that golf playing you are doing. Let's take a look at how "equal" they are:

Age, Dak- 26 / RedJr - 32 (Dak 1-0)
Games played in 19, Dak - 16 / RedJr - 13 (Dak 2-0)
Passing % - Dak - 65% / RedJr - 59% (Dak 3-0)
Passing Yds, Dak - 4,900 / RedJr - 3,4900 (Dak 4-0)
Yds Attempt, Dak - 8.2 / RedJr - 6.6 (Dak 5-0)
TD's, Dak -30 / RedJr - 16 (Dak 6-0)
Int's, Dak - 11 / RedJr - 14 (Dak 7-0)
Sacked, Dak -23 / RedJr - 37 (Dak 8-0)
Rushing, Dak - 277yds / RedJr - 73 (Dak 9-0)
Rushing TD's, Dak - 3 / RedJr - 4 (Dak 9-1)
Games missed last 2 years, Dak - 0, RedJr - 8 (Dak 10-1)

Throw in 2017 stats for Red since he only played 11 games in 2018 and Dak goes (14-3) heads up

Listen, as @JB always says, stats can be used and manipulated for arguments. But my man, Dak and Andy are not equal. And don't even go with the "but if he played on this team the last few years, his stats would be better!" No, stop it.

Let's play some golf soon!

Red Rocket is blah. I’m not sure you are setting the bar all that high for a 35 million dollar QB. At the beginning of the year, you posted numerous times #PayDak and then he went on to play really really really really above average.

The flip side is if you dont pay him, someone will, but if the choice is this guy or Winston, I am taking Winston (Right now). With that OL and talent around him, he should have had a Marino type of year. He definitely should this year, hell it should be record setting. So its chips on the table and all on the line. He’s more Romo than Quincy Carter, but top paid QB in the NFL?

 

[Danimal]

Red Rocket is blah. I’m not sure you are setting the bar all that high for a 35 million dollar QB. At the beginning of the year, you posted numerous times #PayDak and then he went on to play really really really really above average.

The flip side is if you dont pay him, someone will, but if the choice is this guy or Winston, I am taking Winston (Right now). With that OL and talent around him, he should have had a Marino type of year. He definitely should this year, hell it should be record setting. So its chips on the table and all on the line. He’s more Romo than Quincy Carter, but top paid QB in the NFL?

The best thing about Andy Dalton is that he isn’t in Cincinnati anymore. He really sucks.

 

[stevie-a]

Red Rocket is blah. I’m not sure you are setting the bar all that high for a 35 million dollar QB. At the beginning of the year, you posted numerous times #PayDak and then he went on to play really really really really above average.

The flip side is if you dont pay him, someone will, but if the choice is this guy or Winston, I am taking Winston (Right now). With that OL and talent around him, he should have had a Marino type of year. He definitely should this year, hell it should be record setting. So its chips on the table and all on the line. He’s more Romo than Quincy Carter, but top paid QB in the NFL?

See... @JB gets it @Nate . You can post all the stats of how they performed with their given teams, but the real question is whether Dak performed at the level YOU (or anyone else, and particularly Jerry...) would have expected with the talent around him. Based on that, given me the Red Rocket for a cool $23m less and now I can be a player in FA or can keep some talent that might be FA's next year.

Since we missed out on Winston, Dalton was the next best thing available...and may still have some tread on those tires. Newton, well, his shoulder is a question and he still expects to make BIG money. So I think they did well here.

All that said, we know Jerry will eventually cave in to Dak, we'll never get to see Dalton except in the preseason (if there is one...), and maybe that can stir a QB controversy....

EDIT... oh yeah, playing golf tomorrow morning, jump in!

 

[Scorp]

Red Rocket is blah. I’m not sure you are setting the bar all that high for a 35 million dollar QB. At the beginning of the year, you posted numerous times #PayDak and then he went on to play really really really really above average.

The flip side is if you dont pay him, someone will, but if the choice is this guy or Winston, I am taking Winston (Right now). With that OL and talent around him, he should have had a Marino type of year. He definitely should this year, hell it should be record setting. So its chips on the table and all on the line. He’s more Romo than Quincy Carter, but top paid QB in the NFL?

Winston? Really? Mr. Interception himself?

How many interceptions were Jameis throwing into double and triple coverage, or his TE or WR not making a play on the ball, versus an outright INT where he overthrew his target? I ask because I don't know.

 

[stevie-a]

Question for you. Since you're willing to walk away from Dak, would you take Aaron Rogers? He doesn't seem happy... has won superbowls... would he be worth the investment or is he in the beginning stages of a decline?

And you said Dak was surrounded by talent... which I won't argue. What more would it take to push Dak over the top and get the Cowboys through the playoffs and another superbowl?

Hell yeah I'd take Rodgers over Dak...no question...even at 37 years old. Dude was playing catch with complete spares last year. Give him Cooper, Gallup, and Lamb...and Zeke...and he puts up monster numbers.

I can't guarantee that leads to a Cowboy Super Bowl because it was the defense that killed the #1 offense Cowboys last season...but that is a completely different story. Jerry has always valued offense over defense since Jimmy left, and well, let's not go down that road here....

Back to your question, yes Rodgers over Dak, without a doubt.

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[JB]

Winston? Really? Mr. Interception himself?

How many interceptions were Jameis throwing into double and triple coverage, or his TE or WR not making a play on the ball, versus an outright INT where he overthrew his target? I ask because I don't know.

Listen to the head coach who said more than a dozen werent his fault. While watching the highlights says one thing, watching the full games might give some more insight. Between an OL that didnt give him even 3 seconds to throw, and a few other issues, he showed serious grit. Sure he made some terrible throws, but staring at the stat book doesn’t tell the whole story.

There is a reason he was signed before Quitter Newton.

 

[fuffle master]

So is Dak a Mahomes in waiting? Is Dak worth $30m/per in your opinion? We both know the answer is NO to both.

So why (over)pay Dak and be stuck with him for 3-4 more years? Pay Dalton much less, look for options in the draft/trade and move on.

We already screwed ourselves pay paying Zeke 2 years too early...so don't make a similar mistake here.



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I guess to answer this question do you see Dak in the same light, better, or worse then Wentz and Goff? I think that the current market for a solid young QB is in the 30 million+ a year range with 100 million guaranteed.

Dak should get a similar contract to Wentz and Goff. No, I wouldn’t pay him much more as I don’t think he is better then both of them.

 

[Nate]

Red Rocket is blah. I’m not sure you are setting the bar all that high for a 35 million dollar QB. At the beginning of the year, you posted numerous times #PayDak and then he went on to play really really really really above average.

The flip side is if you dont pay him, someone will, but if the choice is this guy or Winston, I am taking Winston (Right now). With that OL and talent around him, he should have had a Marino type of year. He definitely should this year, hell it should be record setting. So its chips on the table and all on the line. He’s more Romo than Quincy Carter, but top paid QB in the NFL?

I think "top paid QB" thinking is getting misused. Yes, he will be top 3 right now this year but how long is that going to last? Mahomes has 2 years (but got to think they get that done next year), Watson has 2 years, Jackson has 2 years, Carr 2 years, Rivers a year, and a lot more in 3 years. So in a few years with the expanding salary cap and more QB's getting next contracts, Dak might be just inside the top 10 once this phantom contract expires in 4-5 years. I think that's how it needs to be looked at.

See... @JB gets it @Nate . You can post all the stats of how they performed with their given teams, but the real question is whether Dak performed at the level YOU (or anyone else, and particularly Jerry...) would have expected with the talent around him. Based on that, given me the Red Rocket for a cool $23m less and now I can be a player in FA or can keep some talent that might be FA's next year.

Since we missed out on Winston, Dalton was the next best thing available...and may still have some tread on those tires. Newton, well, his shoulder is a question and he still expects to make BIG money. So I think they did well here.

All that said, we know Jerry will eventually cave in to Dak, we'll never get to see Dalton except in the preseason (if there is one...), and maybe that can stir a QB controversy....

EDIT... oh yeah, playing golf tomorrow morning, jump in!

But it is comical to think that Red2 would do anything with this team next year. Like 95% of fans.....the backup QB can always do better in our minds.

 

[JB]

I think "top paid QB" thinking is getting misused. Yes, he will be top 3 right now this year but how long is that going to last? Mahomes has 2 years (but got to think they get that done next year), Watson has 2 years, Jackson has 2 years, Carr 2 years, Rivers a year, and a lot more in 3 years. So in a few years with the expanding salary cap and more QB's getting next contracts, Dak might be just inside the top 10 once this phantom contract expires in 4-5 years. I think that's how it needs to be looked at.

But it is comical to think that Red2 would do anything with this team next year. Like 95% of fans.....the backup QB can always do better in our minds.

Wait, did you just say Rivers?
He is 378 years old.

Sure in 3 full years, he might be barely in the top 5. If Dak is a top 5 QB right now (let alone top 3), I have a 29” hog.

ANd agreed Andy Dalton is average (maybe above average)...Although if he ends up playing I am sure we will hear he is underrated, played for a bad team and just needed the right talent around him (See AJ Green and others)

 

[Nate]

Wait, did you just say Rivers?
He is 378 years old.

Sure in 3 full years, he might be barely in the top 5. If Dak is a top 5 QB right now (let alone top 3), I have a 29” hog.

ANd agreed Andy Dalton is average (maybe above average)...Although if he ends up playing I am sure we will hear he is underrated, played for a bad team and just needed the right talent around him (See AJ Green and others)

I did....I needed another name. But who knows, he lights it up in Indy in the fall and he might be asking for a 2 year, $37M a year extension. Stranger things have happened.

 

[JB]

I did....I needed another name. But who knows, he lights it up in Indy in the fall and he might be asking for a 2 year, $37M a year extension. Stranger things have happened.

Maybe the Emperor can sign another QB?

 

[EnglishTurn]

Listen to the head coach who said more than a dozen werent his fault. While watching the highlights says one thing, watching the full games might give some more insight. Between an OL that didnt give him even 3 seconds to throw, and a few other issues, he showed serious grit. Sure he made some terrible throws, but staring at the stat book doesn’t tell the whole story.

There is a reason he was signed before Quitter Newton.

Can't wait to see what a year behind Drew and playing for an actual coach will do for Winston. The future is bright in New Orleans! Who Dat!

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[stevie-a]

I think "top paid QB" thinking is getting misused. Yes, he will be top 3 right now this year but how long is that going to last? Mahomes has 2 years (but got to think they get that done next year), Watson has 2 years, Jackson has 2 years, Carr 2 years, Rivers a year, and a lot more in 3 years. So in a few years with the expanding salary cap and more QB's getting next contracts, Dak might be just inside the top 10 once this phantom contract expires in 4-5 years. I think that's how it needs to be looked at.

Understanding that Dak's new deal will be surpassed in the future is still flawed logic for paying him top dollar now...and its why Jerry is still holding out on doing it, and that tells me that Stephen Jones is taking some control over what is happening, thankfully!

Dak won't settle for the Wentz or Goff deal now, he wants to be top dog. Problem is, he hasn't done sh*t to warrant that outside of play on a 4th round contract. He knows this is his ONLY opportunity to cash in because his stock will never be any higher. As unpopular(?) as it may seem, I like the idea of letting him walk and going with Dalton. For $23m less per season, you'll have some options down the road and/or can draft a qb or trade for a project qb on someone else's roster.

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