Playing Out of a Divot?

[Pantherhawk]

a bunker is... a hazard? It's not apples to apples with a fairway. By design, the lie already worse.

So are we talking only divots in fairways, or divots everywhere? Because a divot in the rough does not get the "it was a good shot" benefit. Then, if we allow for relief from only fairway divots, that seems to call into question the GUR argument since I don't know how you can say a fairway divot is under repair but a divot elsewhere is not.

 

[Pantherhawk]

I'm speaking to the normal rules of golf. I am aware how the rules are written, this thread is about change and if we believe it is warranted and how it would impact. The example was given because to me they are similar. Not normal conditions that will heal over time and you have an expectation of when hitting it into the bunker, you will have a sand lie. If a divot is considered by so many as "rub of the green", I am at a loss how water in a bunker isn't considered the same.

Casual water everywhere outside of a penalty area is free relief. There are practical considerations here because one can actually have an irretrievable ball in casual water. If you can find me a divot where the ball is plausibly irretrievable, then you'll have me convinced

You're basically arguing that divots and casual water should be treated the same, but you're crossing locations on the course to prove your point. If we take what you're saying as "how things should be" we not only need to provide for free relief from a fairway divot, but also from a divot in the bunker - since we treat casual water the same in both places. That definitely undercuts the "it was a good shot and should be rewarded" line of thinking.

 

[JB]

Casual water everywhere outside of a penalty area is free relief. There are practical considerations here because one can actually have an irretrievable ball in casual water. If you can find me a divot where the ball is plausibly irretrievable, then you'll have me convinced

You're basically arguing that divots and casual water should be treated the same, but you're crossing locations on the course to prove your point. If we take what you're saying as "how things should be" we not only need to provide for free relief from a fairway divot, but also from a divot in the bunker - since we treat casual water the same in both places. That definitely undercuts the "it was a good shot and should be rewarded" line of thinking.

Again, you seem hung up on what the current rules are vs what some believe should be altered. If altering of the rules never took place and this is somehow gospel, we wouldn't mark the ball on greens.

Haha at irretrievable ball in casual water in a bunker. Must have dinosaur arms or have a monsoon hit, which would easily fall under local rules. Hard rain in the fairway leaves many a local rule and tournament to allow lift, yet someone being penalized because you don't replace a divot is allowable. That needs to be changed for equitable scoring.

The idea that two parts of the same fairway are temporarily harmed and "under repair" (great sign @MattyD-MPLS ) and handled so wildly different is hysterical to me and goes back to everything I have said regarding the confusion and decisions that make the game harder to pick up for people.

Just as with anything, opinions will vary, but the absolute that this book shall never be altered by some in here is something I cannot understand how anybody can get behind if they want a sport like this to survive.

 

[Ottawaclo]

One of my earliest THP memories was from a situation where i had to hit out of a divot. Was the Regional Rivalry and I had a ball sitting dead center of a good divot. I hit a 7 iron into the green and landed within 6 feet of the hole.

@McRock was my captain and was a joy to be with for my initial THP event.
I believe @IceyShanks was visiting and was behind the green and got to witness of one my few good shots of that event lol.

 

[Pantherhawk]

Again, you seem hung up on what the current rules are vs what some believe should be altered. If altering of the rules never took place and this is somehow gospel, we wouldn't mark the ball on greens.

Haha at irretrievable ball in casual water in a bunker. Must have dinosaur arms or have a monsoon hit, which would easily fall under local rules. Hard rain in the fairway leaves many a local rule and tournament to allow lift, yet someone being penalized because you don't replace a divot is allowable. That needs to be changed for equitable scoring.

The idea that two parts of the same fairway are temporarily harmed and "under repair" (great sign @MattyD-MPLS ) and handled so wildly different is hysterical to me and goes back to everything I have said regarding the confusion and decisions that make the game harder to pick up for people.

Just as with anything, opinions will vary, but the absolute that this book shall never be altered by some in here is something I cannot understand how anybody can get behind if they want a sport like this to survive.

I've had both bunker and non-bunker irretrievable balls in groups of mine during tournament play.

And I'm not hung up on current rules. I'm hung up on consistent application. I was applying the same logic to other scenarios and pointing out how consistent application undercuts the alleged logic for the rule change.

I also don't see how allowing for relief out of a divot reduces confusion for a beginner. I can see how it makes the game easier - and by all means, play that way when playing with beginners to make the game more accessible. But to say it reduces confusion by requiring a beginner to know an additional rule to gain a benefit rather than simply applying the same rule everywhere (play it as it lies) seems to be backwards.

 

[IceyShanks]

One of my earliest THP memories was from a situation where i had to hit out of a divot. Was the Regional Rivalry and I had a ball sitting dead center of a good divot. I hit a 7 iron into the green and landed within 6 feet of the hole.

@McRock was my captain and was a joy to be with for my initial THP event.
I believe @IceyShanks was visiting and was behind the green and got to witness of one my few good shots of that event lol.

That was a great shot!

 

[McRock]

One of my earliest THP memories was from a situation where i had to hit out of a divot. Was the Regional Rivalry and I had a ball sitting dead center of a good divot. I hit a 7 iron into the green and landed within 6 feet of the hole.

@McRock was my captain and was a joy to be with for my initial THP event.
I believe @IceyShanks was visiting and was behind the green and got to witness of one my few good shots of that event lol.

You had plenty of great shots that day.

~Rock

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk

 

[OGputtnfool]

This is my general philosophy to everything on the golf course. Do whatever makes you happy.

I like being tested. Getting a bad break after a good drive and having the grit to step up and hit a great shot out of that divot is just an amazing feeling. One of my favorite shots I can remember hitting in a big tournament was after being completely buried in a huge divot and I managed to stuff a shot to a tucked pin. I love that memory not just because of the shot, but because I stayed present and conquered the challenge that I was presented with even though I maybe didn't "deserve" to have that lie.

That's what makes this game great!

 

[OGputtnfool]

Except you're mixing the PGA Tour rules and the rules for all of golf. A professional should and can hit out of a divot. They often hit it quite well. We for the most part, do not.

How so? "Play it as it lies" is not a PGA Tour rule, is it?

 

[OGputtnfool]

. At least in the case of a bunker, it was the result of a bad shot, not a good one haha

What if a good tee shot hit the 150 yard stake in the middle of the fairway and bounced into an unraked bunker? Would that change things?

 

[Canadan]

What if a good tee shot hit the 150 yard stake in the middle of the fairway and bounced into an unraked bunker? Would that change things?

What is the point of such an extreme example?

 

[Canadan]

So are we talking only divots in fairways, or divots everywhere? Because a divot in the rough does not get the "it was a good shot" benefit. Then, if we allow for relief from only fairway divots, that seems to call into question the GUR argument since I don't know how you can say a fairway divot is under repair but a divot elsewhere is not.

This thread is a hypothetical. If you want to talk about divots in the rough, I say all the power to you.

....For me, I don't care about rough based divots. Shouldn't have hit it in the rough.

 

[OGputtnfool]

I totally respect people for wanting to play to the absolute rulebook with no exceptions.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

 

[ArmyGolf]

I'm speaking to the normal rules of golf. I am aware how the rules are written, this thread is about change and if we believe it is warranted and how it would impact. The example was given because to me they are similar. Not normal conditions that will heal over time and you have an expectation of when hitting it into the bunker, you will have a sand lie. If a divot is considered by so many as "rub of the green", I am at a loss how water in a bunker isn't considered the same.

This is actually a good point.

We all move the ball out of casual water because "duh", but people get so hung up on the fairway divot.

 

[OGputtnfool]

What is the point of such an extreme example?

Rub of the green. Sometimes you are rewarded, sometimes not.

 

[Pantherhawk]

This thread is a hypothetical. If you want to talk about divots in the rough, I say all the power to you.

....For me, I don't care about rough based divots. Shouldn't have hit it in the rough.

So then it has nothing to do with GUR. So why not just play preferred lies in the fairway?

 

[Canadan]

Rub of the green. Sometimes you are rewarded, sometimes not.

That happens basically never. And is of course an example of rub of the green but completely irrelevant to the thread topic.

Also, you really need to learn how to multi-quote so you stop spamming +1's in threads.

 

[Canadan]

So then it has nothing to do with GUR. So why not just play preferred lies in the fairway?

It has everything to do with GUR, in a fairway. Just like I don't think we should have to play out of a footprint in a bunker but could not care less about playing out of a footprint in any other penalty area.

I'm not obligated to take a hard line stance on GUR. It's my opinion preferred lies is not my solution, nor a realistic one.

 

[JB]

This is actually a good point.

We all move the ball out of casual water because "duh", but people get so hung up on the fairway divot.

Exactly. And we can only hope the governing body comes to their senses. Because it makes no sense when equity is used.

 

[CBaker]

It's no longer ground under repair when it's flush with the surface.

I also don't get the shady golfers fear that people have.

Ruling - upon coming to rest in the fairway (important point) you deem the ball to be in a divot.
Action - you drop the ball just behind said divot.

I'm not seeing any downside there. It's not helping you in any way IMO if you really aren't in a divot, but it's also not screwing over anyone that came after you when you decided you were too much of a tour pro to do anything about the giant beaver tail you just took with you.

 

[Pantherhawk]

It has everything to do with GUR, in a fairway. Just like I don't think we should have to play out of a footprint in a bunker but could not care less about playing out of a footprint in any other penalty area.

I'm not obligated to take a hard line stance on GUR. It's my opinion preferred lies is not my solution, nor a realistic one.

How is it GUR in the fairway but not in the rough or intermediate rough?

 

[Canadan]

It's no longer ground under repair when it's flush with the surface.

I also don't get the shady golfers fear that people have.

Ruling - upon coming to rest in the fairway (important point) you deem the ball to be in a divot.
Action - you drop the ball just behind said divot.

I'm not seeing any downside there. It's not helping you in any way IMO if you really aren't in a divot, but it's also not screwing over anyone that came after you when you decided you were too much of a tour pro to do anything about the giant beaver tail you just took with you.

The shady golfers things always cracks me up.
So does the 'it will kill the integrity of the game' stuff.

I love the debate though! I'm all in haha

 

[Canadan]

How is it GUR in the fairway but not in the rough or intermediate rough?

It's whatever you want it to be. This thread is a hypothetical solution to (or retention of) a silly non-rule.

If you would concede the idea of GUR for a fairway divot, I'll gladly concede the idea of GUR for a rough divot

 

[Scorp]

Shady golfers only affect their score... unless there's money riding on it. In that case hopefully there are more eyes watching said shady golfer.

 

[OGputtnfool]

That happens basically never. And is of course an example of rub of the green but completely irrelevant to the thread topic.

Also, you really need to learn how to multi-quote so you stop spamming +1's in threads.

To be fair, hitting divots in the fairway happens basically never, too.

As far as multi-quoting, I do it anytime I see two or more posts that want to quote at the same time. If I run across another post later that I didn't see before, then I go ahead and quote it then. Basically, like you did with posts #242 and #243.