Okay, I'm not laughing, but I do like the shirt. Er, what the shirt does. Or something, something about the shirt.
2018 US Open Contest and Thread Sponsored by Golf Pride Grips
Okay, I'm not laughing, but I do like the shirt. Er, what the shirt does. Or something, something about the shirt.
Northerner
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Both ways he is taking money of a guy beneath him in the field.
If he takes, say, another one or two strokes than he otherwise did, he still is takes more money from those in the field tied with him or below him.
Northerner
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FIGJAM is a legend, and among a handful of the greatest to ever touch a golf club. But I don't think he has earned the right to take even a few thousand more dollars from someone else he finished tied with or just above in the field because he had a lapse of judgment there.
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I know this was a hot debate on Mickelson and what the USGA decided would be the final action.
I am on the side of those saying Mickelson should have been DQ. To me, the rule for hitting a moving ball was intended to penalize a player who accidentally stroked the ball while moving. Taken from another site: The first rule of golf, Rule 1-1, describes how the game is to be played from tee to green. Rule 1-2 details several things a player may NOT do while playing the game. This is what 1-2 speaks to: “Exerting influence on movement of the ball or altering physical conditions.” Mickelson delibertly ran to his ball as it was moving and hit it. He purposely didn't want to see the balls final position.
I believe he should have been disqualified.
I am on the side of those saying Mickelson should have been DQ. To me, the rule for hitting a moving ball was intended to penalize a player who accidentally stroked the ball while moving. Taken from another site: The first rule of golf, Rule 1-1, describes how the game is to be played from tee to green. Rule 1-2 details several things a player may NOT do while playing the game. This is what 1-2 speaks to: “Exerting influence on movement of the ball or altering physical conditions.” Mickelson delibertly ran to his ball as it was moving and hit it. He purposely didn't want to see the balls final position.
I believe he should have been disqualified.
Did he not make a stroke at his ball in motion?
NewGlfr
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To intentionally deflect it and prevent losing more strokes than the penalty applied. He even admitted as much at his press conference.
But he expressly made a stroke at his moving ball?
Yes. He intentionally putted his ball back towards the hole as it was rolling, presumably off the green.
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As expressly covered in 14-5. 1-2 yields to more specific rules.
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I hear what you are saying. I do believe the rule the USGA applied is one up for debate. Both sides are correct. However, I will stick on the side Mickelson should have been DQ.
I heard a story today on the radio about an amateur tournament where the golfer, winning at the time, putted his ball, realizing he hit it too hard, ran up and used his putter as a backboard and into the hole. Two stroke penalty.
After, he said he wasn’t sure if the putt rolled off the green he would score better, so why not. He supposedly won.
I have no idea if the person on the radio was telling a real life story or not, but I really believe that any act to circumvent the intended rule is not acting in the best interest of the game. Questionably following one rule, possibly breaking another. It was a difficult situation for the USGA. I think they made the wrong application of which rule to use.
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The United States Open has been played 118 times, and since WW2, the winning score has ranged from 268 to 290, with the majority of those winning scores being at or around 280. Setting up a difficult test is nothing new for the USGA. The total par of the courses ranged from 70 to 72.
There are 3 Opens that comes to mind when talking about outliers:
2000- Pebble Beach (Tiger laps the field and wins by 15 strokes at -12).
2011- Congressional (Rory wins with the lowest aggregate score ever at 268/ -16, when the consistent rain rendered the course defenseless. Rory stole this one, he hasn’t faired well in more traditional US Open conditions).
2017- Erin Hills (The course needed the wind to protect it and the wind never blows, and Kopeka blitzed the joint. 5 players finished the Open at -10 or better, which would have won 114 of the 117 Opens played to that point).
This -10 Number is important, because up until 2000, no one had ever finished the Open at -10 (not even Nicklaus- to quote Tin Cup). In my opinion, it’s not Par that the USGA attempts to protect, it is this -10 or better score that they don’t want to see.
Every time that this -10 Number has been breached the next year the course has been made to play extremely penal:
2001- Southern Hills (Goosen wins a playoff over Brooks at 276/ -4. It was hot and fast, but most thought it was fair)
2012- Olympic Club (Webb Simpson wins after Furyk chokes it away on the final 2 holes. Winning score of 281 restores order)
2018- Shinnecock Hills (Kopeka wins again, but this time it’s a tradition set up. Winds Saturday afternoon cause the 13th, 15th, and 18th greens to get away from them. Winning score is 281 and order is restored again)
What does the USGA need to do to prevent this type of correction and over correction from happening? I have a few ideas:
Adopt the R&A’s approach and develop a Rota. This will provide better familiarity and help with pin placement selection. Although Shinnecock has hosted the US Open 5 times, the last time before this year was 14 years ago, a lot can change on a course in 14 years.
If I was in charge this would be my Rota:
Oakmont (The beast & and the likelihood of getting blitzed is low. My favorite “US Open” course)
Winged Foot (The hardest course on my list, has the highest average winning score of any course that has hosted multiple Opens)
Pebble Beach (Hard to believe that this iconic American Oceanside course hosted the Open for the first time in 1972. When people think of an American golf course they think Pebble Beach)
Shinnecock Hills (Great course and great test. It is a shame that the last two Opens held at Shinnecock have been mired in layout and playability controversy, because it is a great course)
Olympic Club (Another Gem and the finishing holes cause havoc under the pressure of the US Open)
Merion (Short & Quirky track that rewards ball striking over power. Hogan won there, enough said)
Bethpage- Black (“The Black course is for advanced golfers only”... Public course that has held 2 great Opens)
Torrey Pines- South (Another public course than can produce drama and great visuals on TV)
Pinehurst- #2 (Another course the average golfer can play, the turtle back greens can make it play very difficult. Need to make the new native area harder when the Open returns)
That’s 9, and once a decade sprinkle in places like :
Baltusrol- Could make a case it should be in my permanent rotation
Congressional
Southern Hills
Hazeltine
Medinah
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There are 3 Opens that comes to mind when talking about outliers:
2000- Pebble Beach (Tiger laps the field and wins by 15 strokes at -12).
2011- Congressional (Rory wins with the lowest aggregate score ever at 268/ -16, when the consistent rain rendered the course defenseless. Rory stole this one, he hasn’t faired well in more traditional US Open conditions).
2017- Erin Hills (The course needed the wind to protect it and the wind never blows, and Kopeka blitzed the joint. 5 players finished the Open at -10 or better, which would have won 114 of the 117 Opens played to that point).
This -10 Number is important, because up until 2000, no one had ever finished the Open at -10 (not even Nicklaus- to quote Tin Cup). In my opinion, it’s not Par that the USGA attempts to protect, it is this -10 or better score that they don’t want to see.
Every time that this -10 Number has been breached the next year the course has been made to play extremely penal:
2001- Southern Hills (Goosen wins a playoff over Brooks at 276/ -4. It was hot and fast, but most thought it was fair)
2012- Olympic Club (Webb Simpson wins after Furyk chokes it away on the final 2 holes. Winning score of 281 restores order)
2018- Shinnecock Hills (Kopeka wins again, but this time it’s a tradition set up. Winds Saturday afternoon cause the 13th, 15th, and 18th greens to get away from them. Winning score is 281 and order is restored again)
What does the USGA need to do to prevent this type of correction and over correction from happening? I have a few ideas:
Adopt the R&A’s approach and develop a Rota. This will provide better familiarity and help with pin placement selection. Although Shinnecock has hosted the US Open 5 times, the last time before this year was 14 years ago, a lot can change on a course in 14 years.
If I was in charge this would be my Rota:
Oakmont (The beast & and the likelihood of getting blitzed is low. My favorite “US Open” course)
Winged Foot (The hardest course on my list, has the highest average winning score of any course that has hosted multiple Opens)
Pebble Beach (Hard to believe that this iconic American Oceanside course hosted the Open for the first time in 1972. When people think of an American golf course they think Pebble Beach)
Shinnecock Hills (Great course and great test. It is a shame that the last two Opens held at Shinnecock have been mired in layout and playability controversy, because it is a great course)
Olympic Club (Another Gem and the finishing holes cause havoc under the pressure of the US Open)
Merion (Short & Quirky track that rewards ball striking over power. Hogan won there, enough said)
Bethpage- Black (“The Black course is for advanced golfers only”... Public course that has held 2 great Opens)
Torrey Pines- South (Another public course than can produce drama and great visuals on TV)
Pinehurst- #2 (Another course the average golfer can play, the turtle back greens can make it play very difficult. Need to make the new native area harder when the Open returns)
That’s 9, and once a decade sprinkle in places like :
Baltusrol- Could make a case it should be in my permanent rotation
Congressional
Southern Hills
Hazeltine
Medinah
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- #2,487
I would do a few things
Bring the fairways back to the smaller size they used to be. This way it’s not a tricked out side show on the greens to Keep the score at 280. Which I’m okay with, as long as it’s not a circus that gets it there.
I’m not a fan of courses that are played on the regular tour schedule being used for a major. Torrey and Pebble would have to choose one or the other.
I would pick a 1 every 10 approach that says a new course hosts. New course meaning not the same thing, something new.
Bring the fairways back to the smaller size they used to be. This way it’s not a tricked out side show on the greens to Keep the score at 280. Which I’m okay with, as long as it’s not a circus that gets it there.
I’m not a fan of courses that are played on the regular tour schedule being used for a major. Torrey and Pebble would have to choose one or the other.
I would pick a 1 every 10 approach that says a new course hosts. New course meaning not the same thing, something new.
Lots of things to discuss and remember about this tournament, but I'm left with one (ok various) question(s). Why was there such a difference over the weekend between morning and afternoon rounds vs Thursday and Friday? That was my biggest issue with the tournament. Was the set-up that much different? Was it just the winds were on all day Thurs & Friday? It seemed the greens were more receptive Sat & Sunday mornings than at any other point; or is that off base?
The dramatic difference in scoring those two days depending on the draw took away from the tournament for ME. Glad Koepka held on since he was on the tough end of the draw the last 2 days.
The dramatic difference in scoring those two days depending on the draw took away from the tournament for ME. Glad Koepka held on since he was on the tough end of the draw the last 2 days.
I agree. There's always a difference in playability from morning to afternoon groups due to greens drying out, trampled greens, wind speed, etc. But it's really highlighted when they set the course up to play as hard as possible. The greens just baked out badly for the afternoon guys.
Breed said something interesting this morning. He said he thinks the USGA should build their own course to host the US Open at every year, with underground irrigation on the greens. This would solve the inconsistent green speed issue anyway.
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Just good old fashioned golf debate and talk about the major.
Winners have not been announced yet, lots of fun contests and stuff going on on THP.
stevie-a
Yeah boyeeeee!
I agree with reducing the width of fairways and allowing the rough to penalize wayward shots...and not using the greens as the difference maker. You can still put the hole locations in tough spots, but the greens still need to be playable.
I have no problem with using courses that are normally part of the Tour schedule, but the courses must then undergo a transformation of sorts to tighten the fairways, lengthen holes as necessary, and maybe add some trouble spots (new bunkers, tight lights around the green, etc.).
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And the winner is...
Got the grips on the number too. 9 of 11 technically.
Please send me a PM with your full name and shipping address.
Got the grips on the number too. 9 of 11 technically.
Please send me a PM with your full name and shipping address.
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Congrats MrMom!
Congrats on the win!
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Stellar picking you did there nicely done!!
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Congrats on the picks and the prizes MrMom!
Thanks, guys! As on the course, I'd rather be lucky than good. Thanks to THP for the great contest. It was a lot of fun following the thread while watching the very entertaining final round.
Cheers!
Cheers!
Congrats! Nice W!
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