Are Pros Actually Pulling Backwards With Right Elbow?

[ChickenWing]

Looking at downswing images of Jim Furyk (and others) I noticed that his right elbow is almost behind his back at parallel. I tried to copy the downswing position and realized the only way to do it is to actually pull my right elbow back in downswing. I noticed that this would make your swing much more connected by keeping your left arm on the chest at contact. I would think this would also make it very hard to swing over the top and slow down any flip at impact. I've never heard any info on this, but it could be another case of "feel aint real". I know it sounds crazy but stand up and try to copy that position and you'll have to pull right elbow back to get there.

 

[blugold]

What other pros do this move?

 

[moosejaa]

Furyk's swing is one-of-a-kind IMO, closest to his might be Ryan Moore.

As a contrary example, I think Dufner is the opposite and his elbow is actually in front of his right hip.

 

[ChickenWing]

I've seen Mcilroy be nearly in the same position.

 

[wubears71]

If Furyk does it, then you probably shouldn't do it. It's amazing how well he plays with how unorthodox is swing is compared to "ideal swings".

 

[Brianbigoats]

Furyk's Swing is super Funky not one i would ever try to copy

 

[ChickenWing]

Good call. Looking at Ryan Moore it appears that his back elbow is not being moved forward until very late in downswing.

 

[blugold]

Tiger:

Rory:

DLIII:

Justin Rose:

Adam Scott:

For reference

 

[ChickenWing]

Here's a good video of Ryan Moore. The analysis says his moving his elbow down and in. Yes he is from the camera perspective, but not to his body. His sternum has moved well forward but his elbow has only moved down, ergo it must be moving backwards in relation to his core.:confused2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8h0qlA9X7o

 

[MWard]

Are Pros Actually Pulling Backwards With Right Elbow?

Sergio

Mahan

Hogan

Scott


It's a product of a good transition as well as an in sync swing to the turn of the body. These four for example, all keep the club in front of them so that when they transition to their downswing, the club just ends up there on its own and they can just rip it through impact with no manipulation or thought to it.

While his swing may be funky, Furyk is one of the best in the world at it. Hip height to hip height, there's a reason that swing has won him 52 million+ on course.


Edit: Good Lord Blu are you listening to my phone without me knowing? Haha

 

[flog2424]

It is more of a visual than anything. If you look at Furyk's swing compared to the others in this post notice how much he has cleared his hips in relation to his upper body. This will give the appearance that he is trying to hold the club back but it actually just a result of gravity. Hips go first and club follows after. There are some teachers that have started looking at external rotation of the right shoulder on the downswing. This move is done to flatten the shaft under the plane on the downswing and keep the club a tad behind you

 

[ChickenWing]

Good images. All their elbows are behind their setup positions (except Scott maybe). How'd they get there is the question. Yes the hips have gone forward, so the elbows gone backwards relative to core.

 

[blugold]

While his swing may be funky, Furyk is one of the best in the world at it. Hip height to hip height, there's a reason that swing has won him 52 million+ on course.

While Jim Furyk has won a US Open, made a boatload of money, keeps making Ryder Cup teams, and is generally in contention a lot. He does have a tendency to mess the bed during the final round. Especially in the past few years. I would make the argument that because his is swing is basically compensations for compensations that he has committed to muscle memory, if any of those compensations are just a little bit off he struggles.

 

[TheDoctor]

I have absolutely zero teaching ability, but with regards to every picture in this thread - is the camera in exactly the same position in relation to the golfer when the pictures were taken? I am going to assume not and therefore you cannot really say if each pro is in the same/different position

 

[MWard]

Good images. All their elbows are behind their setup positions (except Scott maybe). How'd they get there is the question. Yes the hips have gone forward, so the elbows gone backwards relative to core.

Camera angles can also make things look different than not. That angle was not the best but it showed kinda what I wanted. It's just one of those positions that happens not a forced spot

 

[MWard]

While Jim Furyk has won a US Open, made a boatload of money, keeps making Ryder Cup teams, and is generally in contention a lot. He does have a tendency to mess the bed during the final round. Especially in the past few years. I would make the argument that because his is swing is basically compensations for compensations that he has committed to muscle memory, if any of those compensations are just a little bit off he struggles.

Oh, I'd just call that pressure getting to him

 

[ChickenWing]

All these players have made all these swing moves to move their right elbow 6 inches (20 cm?!) back from setup.

 

[blugold]

Good images. All their elbows are behind their setup positions (except Scott maybe). How'd they get there is the question. Yes the hips have gone forward, so the elbows gone backwards relative to core.

Of course the elbow is in a different position at hip height than it is during setup. Is that what you're asking? Why is hip height different than setup?

I have absolutely zero teaching ability, but with regards to every picture in this thread - is the camera in exactly the same position in relation to the golfer when the pictures were taken? I am going to assume not and therefore you cannot really say if each pro is in the same/different position

You are correct, but they do a good enough job showing that a large majority of the best golfers do not bull their right elbow behind them during the swing.

 

[flog2424]

All these players have made all these swing moves to move their right elbow 6 inches (20 cm?!) back from setup.

It's not really a move per say..... As these guys (who are all great ball strikers) are working on flattening the shaft below the swing plane, the club naturally wants to stay behind a little bit which is what is producing that image. You have to be careful when trying to manipulate this because you often will produce a wide open club face and hit block after block to the right. It really is a result of a few other things going on in the swing, not of its own merit IMO


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[Tadashi70]

If the right elbow trails the in the down swing, more often than not you are stuck. I do not advise trying to swing like JF or RM. The right elbow should be even with the right hip if not just in front of it.

 

[ChickenWing]

To be contrary, if your elbow lagging behind your core naturally happened, all the armatures that try to fire their hips first (me) would look like this at impact.

 

[blugold]

To be contrary, if your elbow lagging behind your core naturally happened, all the armatures that try to fire their hips first (me) would look like this at impact.

Are we talking elbow position at impact or hip height on the downswing? I would also assume that most amateurs who get the club stuck behind them, have this tucked right elbow at impact.

 

[flog2424]

To be contrary, if your elbow lagging behind your core naturally happened, all the armatures that try to fire their hips first (me) would look like this at impact.

This can open up a whole other can of worms in regards to how a body physically works in the swing. You have to have the ability to have separation of the lower and upper body to get the club to lag naturally. If you fire your hips first and your upper body can't separate then there is no natural lagging, you tend to produce more of an over the top move

 

[blugold]

This can open up a whole other can of worms in regards to how a body physically works in the swing. You have to have the ability to have separation of the lower and upper body to get the club to lag naturally. If you fire your hips first and your upper body can't separate then there is no natural lagging, you tend to produce more of an over the top move

And a massive hip slide without rotation will almost always cause the hands to drop excessively and get the club stuck behind the golfer.

 

[Tadashi70]

I'll say it again, if the elbow trails like it does for JF, in a normal golf swing, you will be stuck. As a result you will flip at the ball as most amateurs do when they are young. We teach our kids to hit far and go chase it. They learn to time it and the elbow gets more in front of them.

To be contrary, if your elbow lagging behind your core naturally happened, all the armatures that try to fire their hips first (me) would look like this at impact.