Blades Vs Cavity Back

[-CRW-]

I just don't get the "the feedback" thing. If for some reason you're playing an iron so forgiving that you can feel impact location, which ones do that because I haven't found them; wouldn't ballflight and impact tape tell you everything you need to know?

I think most people would get immediate feedback without seeing ball flight if they hit the extremes (thin, toe, or heel/hosel), but I'm not sure most can tell if they hit any specific place in the grooved area of a club (I can't tell).

I wonder though if someone played/practiced with blades long enough that they would have a huge confidence boost if they moved to bigger CB's. Like if you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a dodge ball sort of thing.

 

[blugold]

I think most people would get immediate feedback without seeing ball flight if they hit the extremes (thin, toe, or heel/hosel), but I'm not sure most can tell if they hit any specific place in the grooved area of a club (I can't tell).

I wonder though if someone played/practiced with blades long enough that they would have a huge confidence boost if they moved to bigger CB's. Like if you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a dodge ball sort of thing.

Hahaha. And it works perfectly for this discussion. Very well done.

 

[Johan185]

I just don't get the "the feedback" thing. If for some reason you're playing an iron so forgiving that you can feel impact location, which ones do that because I haven't found them; wouldn't ballflight and impact tape tell you everything you need to know?

Do you remember that sharp sting you feel, like an ice pick when you miss the sweet spot with a Blade.

That's the feedback masked by a modern cavity back.

We all hate that sting. Painful really sharp. But it is that feedback which tells me I just missed the sweet spot. Plus of course the ball flight which give me club face and swing plane information.


When I practice with the blades I get three pieces of data. Swing plane. Angle of club face at contact, open, square, or closed. And proximity to sweet spot.

I conscious and subconsciously I try and succeed in avoiding the stinger. That sharp feedback has improved my striking of the sweet spot. After two weeks I only get stung occasionally versus regularly.

That sharp sting is missing by design with a cavity back, giving only swing plane and club face angle feedback unless I use impact tape or look at the face. With blades the feedback is instantaneous.

Jtc

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[JB]

Two things about feedback.
You have to know why you did it.
And most modern players cavities offer the same.

 

[rtparty]

I've had my Apex Pros hurt just as much as my Rocketbladez and those hurt just as much as my TM MB irons.

I'd rather my ball flight tell me what went wrong then my hands hurting.

That's like saying every time I make a mistake I'm going to flog myself so I know not to do it. If I know I made the mistake, causing myself pain isnt going to fix the problem. Not making the mistake in the first place is my best choice. Correct?

 

[blugold]

Why not just use impact tape and a stilleto blade. When you miss the sweetspot, just stab yourself in the thigh. That will give you even more severe negative feedback and force you to get better.

One other question, does the scorecard care how close to the sweetspot your swings were?

 

[Johan185]

If it's working, no reason to not use it. But o do think there is some confirmation bias happening.

As humans we are always biased. Since I spent money subconsciously I have to justify it by convincing myself that it was worth it.

That's why trackman is so important. You think you made a good swing. You think you loved the ball flight and results. But then you look at the numbers and realize, oops. The numbers don't lie. It was your same old swing with your good old fashion swing flaws.

This lead me to realize I needed more feedback. Searching and reading THP I thought, hum maybe blades were the answer. I took a chance. So far it is working for me.

I posted some numbers. They weren't the numbers others were searching for. But for the first time they were the numbers my instructor was trying to teach me to hit.

We are exaggerating forward shaft lean and trying to get a lower ball flight. Compared to my usual. Success. The Blades help me hit repeatedly the numbers we are seeking. The improved feedback helped me get this exaggerated move. Now we can work on backing off to the proper numbers.

But again practice without appreciate feedback equals ingrained swing flaws. I was seeking swing improvements and change. I needed one more data point. Sweet spot striking. With this club I am ingraining hitting the heart of the club. Over and over. Over time I won't need to practice hitting the sweet spot I will own it. But till then with out the feedback I was hitting the ball all over the club face with decent results.

Will I always hit the sweet spot playing golf no. But I wanted to practice hitting the sweet spot under perfect conditions to improve the results under imperfect and unpredictable golfing conditions.

IMHO

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[Johan185]

I've had my Apex Pros hurt just as much as my Rocketbladez and those hurt just as much as my TM MB irons.

I'd rather my ball flight tell me what went wrong then my hands hurting.

That's like saying every time I make a mistake I'm going to flog myself so I know not to do it. If I know I made the mistake, causing myself pain isnt going to fix the problem. Not making the mistake in the first place is my best choice. Correct?

Call me Pavlov's dog. I quickly learned to avoid the pain also. Then I am just ingraining solid contact shot after shot. Because even when you start to stray a little bit the little sting sends me back to solid contact.

Solid contact, swing plane, club face and path, trackman number.

Ball striking paradise

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[Johan185]

Why not just use impact tape and a stilleto blade. When you miss the sweetspot, just stab yourself in the thigh. That will give you even more severe negative feedback and force you to get better.

One other question, does the scorecard care how close to the sweetspot your swings were?

I'm told the scorecard will reflect how well I control the ball flight. Therefore solid contact is one piece of the puzzle

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[blugold]

I'm told the scorecard will reflect how well I control the ball flight. Therefore solid contact is one piece of the puzzle

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With all due respect to your scorecard, if you're a -20 and hitting 70% GIR, your scorecard doesn't give a rip about your ball control.

Just me shooting straight (pun intended), it sounds like you're playing golf swing.

 

[Johan185]

With all due respect to your scorecard, if you're a -20 and hitting 70% GIR, your scorecard doesn't give a rip about your ball control.

Just me shooting straight (pun intended), it sounds like you're playing golf swing.

Lol. Lmfao.

Straight through the Heart.

I told you. Peace and Love.

Not Tear me up to Pieces.


But you're right.

It's hard work improving your game.

I got sick and tried of boogie golf and decided on a plan to correct the situation. As a matter of fact the THP is partly to blame. How could I be spending so much time playing golf and still play so poorly. Answer in page after page. Get a PGA pro to turn your game around.

When we started at our first lesson he told me point blank, there was no way I was ever going play consistent golf with my swing which depended heavily on timing. When I practiced a lot and my timing was on point. Lights out.

Back when we started we agreed to a plan. BTW my GIR then we're at 20% then.

We agreed on forgetting about the scorecard and work on fundamentals. So even though today my short game is in trouble and holding me back, at that time it was my iron game which was on life support.

We tackled the elephant in the room. Casting, flipping and poor ball striking. And BTW guess what, not only have my scores become better, they are actually more consistent. Plus or minus 3 to 5 strokes versus plus or minus 10 to 15.

We are almost there. But I needed more feedback to get to where I wanted to go. Blades seemed like a good choice. And sure enough it's paying off.

Next step. Chipping, pitching, sand saves and putting.

Trust me it's still going to take a lot of hard work. But at least I'm seeing progress. Driver check. Irons check. Wedges check. Fades and draws check.

Now I have to chip or pitch the ball from any lie to with 3 to 6 feet.


I have to putt the ball to gimme range.

Each and every time

I have to get out of the sand and with in a 6 foot circle.

One or maybe two years from now.

Then I will reexamine and reevaluate the plan.

But for now. It's only the beginning. But the results speak for themselves. I'm hitting a Mizuno MP-5 solid. Trust me 6 months ago that was impossible.

But no worries. THP is for seeking the truth. I asked a question, now I have to accept the truth.


Ball striking check. Short game disaster.

Time to focus on your short game

You nailed it on the head.

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[ProZoneGolf]

I think with blades its more the feeling or finding the feeling of the sweet spot which is smaller, and engaging the swing to it.
Sure we all feel misses far off. Cavities sweet spot is bigger and slight misses with cavities are masked more vs blades by design. Blades will hone your swing to a smaller sweet spot/impact position, training muscle memory to hits a smaller area on the face.

 

[tequila4kapp]

Hey Johan, you know what? Good for you for listening to your instructor and committing to doing the work. Improving ball striking like that is impressive, something not everyone can do.

 

[Johan185]

I think with blades its more the feeling or finding the feeling of the sweet spot which is smaller, and engaging the swing to it.
Sure we all feel misses far off. Cavities sweet spot is bigger and slight misses with cavities are masked more vs blades by design. Blades will hone your swing to a smaller sweet spot/impact position, training muscle memory to hits a smaller area on the face.

Exactly, that's what I thought would occur. And that is what is happening. With the Blades I find that the difference in feeling between hitting it pure and missing the sweet spot seems more distinct. So it really sharpens your feel in general to the club head through out the swing and during impact.

I know it's a cliche aim small, miss small. But it is a truth in golf. The feeling is not as distinct with the Cavity Backs. But.... In the tournament I'm playing in next week after Xmas guess which clubs will be holding court. The Cavity Backs.

So for now I have a really expensive and I might add beautiful set of practice Jewels. MP-5'S. I hope as I continue to practice they can be my gamers but I won't hold my breath. They are lovely to look at, but though easier than prior blades I have tried, not a GI Player's iron. Not by a long shot.


If you want to show off. Get a Mizuno. If you want to score and you aren't a scratch golfer there are many good choices.

But even with all my current success and results for which I am very happy with. I have zero buyers regret. I still wonder. Out loud. Which would be the best way to go "CB VS MB" for a mid 10 to 15 handicapper. For me it was Blades but it requires a lot of hard work and daily practice. But since most can only play once a week and practice irregularly. Maybe it would be a setup for disaster, failure, frustration and futility. Versus buying a XR's or RSi etc and just having fun.


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[Johan185]

Hey Johan, you know what? Good for you for listening to your instructor and committing to doing the work. Improving ball striking like that is impressive, something not everyone can do.

Thanks Bro. So Far.... He leading me in the right direction. Of course I was lucky in finding the right teacher with the right plan for my game.

But even he wasn't sure if the Blades would help or hurt. During our discussion about blades in fact he was recommending I purchase the Mizuno MP-25's instead of the MP -5's. And he had first hand knowledge about my swing flaws. But won't you know it. My heart and soul was captured by the MP-5's. And I think that is a big part of it.

My instructor is speechless when he has seen me improve so quickly and hitting a relatively small blade so well. But of course since I was in love with the clubs I probably have been trying harder than ever to make them work. So that subconsciously has been a secret motivation for my success. It's like when someone tells you that you can't do something and you go all out to prove them wrong.

Of course no one is wrong. Just honest. It would require a lot of hard work. So I hit the range and bam. The results speak for themselves.

But if another 20 hcpers reads the thread and thinks OK. Let me buy a set and get better. Beware. PGA instructor not included.

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[tequila4kapp]

Speaking of honesty...at the range yesterday I was hitting it out toward the toe, almost to the part where the grooves end. I could feel it was poor contact but couldn't tell what the miss was, but for impact tape. And that knowledge didn't help me fix it at all.

 

[JB]

Speaking of honesty...at the range yesterday I was hitting it out toward the toe, almost to the part where the grooves end. I could feel it was poor contact but couldn't tell what the miss was, but for impact tape. And that knowledge didn't help me fix it at all.

That goes back to the theory that missing, without knowing why does little to help a golfer get better at anything outside of dealing with frustration.

 

[Johan185]

That goes back to the theory that missing, without knowing why does little to help a golfer get better at anything outside of dealing with frustration.

The instructor is definitely more important than the Club. We see it every week on tour. PGA Pro's have won with any and every kind of club. The best swing and game that week rules.



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[Johan185]

Speaking of honesty...at the range yesterday I was hitting it out toward the toe, almost to the part where the grooves end. I could feel it was poor contact but couldn't tell what the miss was, but for impact tape. And that knowledge didn't help me fix it at all.

Just out of curiosity what type of club were you practicing with, CB Vs MB etc which wasn't providing you with clues about impact out on the toe with out using impact tape.

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[blugold]

Speaking of honesty...at the range yesterday I was hitting it out toward the toe, almost to the part where the grooves end. I could feel it was poor contact but couldn't tell what the miss was, but for impact tape. And that knowledge didn't help me fix it at all.

Just out of curiosity what type of club were you practicing with, CB Vs MB etc which wasn't providing you with clues about impact out on the toe with out using impact tape.

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I'm curious as well, I want clubs that feel that soft on impact out on the extremes. I haven't had my Cf 16s long, but misses feel pretty darn obvious so far.

 

[Johan185]

I'm curious as well, I want clubs that feel that soft on impact out on the extremes. I haven't had my Cf 16s long, but misses feel pretty darn obvious so far.

Right. Talk about a extremely large sweet spot with maximum forgiveness. Even with a 460 cc driver I feel the shaft twisting during a strike on toe or heel side hits.

But maybe the perimeter weights eliminate that effect to a significant degree and while you look up and see the ball flight wasn't what you were expecting you are still not sure where the ball hit the face.

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[blugold]

and while you look up and see the ball flight wasn't what you were expecting you are still not sure where the ball hit the face.

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I have never felt this sensation. Ever. Not saying it doesn't happen. Just that I know whether or not I was close to center, I also know which area contact was, just by feel. Plus, if the ball flight wasn't correct, what does it matter where I was on the face?

 

[Johan185]

I have never felt this sensation. Ever. Not saying it doesn't happen. Just that I know whether or not I was close to center, I also know which area contact was, just by feel. Plus, if the ball flight wasn't correct, what does it matter where I was on the face?

I just guessing, but doesn't where it strikes the club face influence the ball trajectory and spin as much as swing path and club face angle. And of course club head speed and angle of attack.

Just curious on your take.

May take is to review every part of the contact conditions and adjust or improve my ball trajectory by making swing changes.



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[tequila4kapp]

That goes back to the theory that missing, without knowing why does little to help a golfer get better at anything outside of dealing with frustration.

I agree 100%

 

[tequila4kapp]

It was with my i25 9i. Usually I can tell. I've been injured and not playing much, I may not be as in tune with things as usual. Also, the results of the swings were extremely acceptable. Not seeing the ball react poorly minimized the ability to understand the error. Of course, it also made me really appreciate the technology - these shots would have been extremely playable. At this point, I'll take all the help I can get.