Corona Virus/COVID19: Local Impact

[myspinonit]

Good. I think people deserve to know what's really going on. It's certainly not something that will ever be investigated/reported by the MSM.

Coronavirus Jumps the Border, Overwhelming Hospitals in California (Published 2020)

Hospitals are airlifting patients to facilities hundreds of miles away to handle an influx of Americans and U.S. green card holders sickened in Mexico.

www.nytimes.com

 

[woody_74]

That's for certain. I doubt my company will have any leased space in Louisville once their current leases run out. We own plenty of space for everyone that will want to return to the office when this is all over. They have already cut their leased space by 60% in Louisville over the last 5 years and they didn't build or buy anything. I think industrial REIT might be a good place for real estate investing. I foresee a lot of new warehousing and manufacturing popping up over the next decade as the US isolates itself and begins to onshore more production. I also think the dollar is going to weaken over the next several years as well so we may be a net exporter in a decade or 2 instead of a net importer like we have been for the last several decades.

This was a topic of conversation this weekend. My cousin office is not planning on going back this year, however their CEO keeps sending emails of why he thinks offices will have a place in the future with his company. Him and I both believe that it will change especially if they realize the cost savings that a smaller office could bring.

I work from home and a lot of my coworkers do as well. I think we will see our main office get smaller and more monthly/quarterly meetings done onsite for a couple days. I believe that our training that was held in El Segundo, CA will be done virtually for all the support teammates. I’m a little bummed as it was nice to go to LA during the winter in Iowa.


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[TheHeez]

Yes, CA is wide open to accept foreign persons into U.S. hospitals. Medicare surcharges for COVID must have ran low. This is beyond a joke. If you are a U.S. citizen there's no hospital bed. Tough luck....see ya!!

California border hospitals hit by surge in COVID-19 cases from Mexico
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The only two hospitals in Southern California’s rural Imperial County were forced to close their doors to new coronavirus patients on Tuesday, after admitting scores believed stricken with the virus from across the border in Mexico, officials said.

California border hospitals hit by surge in COVID-19 cases from Mexico

(This May 19 story corrects name to Pioneers Memorial Hospital, from Pilgrims Memorial Hospital, in paragraphs 3 and 7)

www.reuters.com

To quote your article...

“The surge in patients consisted of U.S. citizens who live in Mexicali, capital of the Mexican state of Baja California, and were turned away from hospitals overrun with coronavirus cases there.”

They are US citizens just like you and me.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

It's easy when things are good to look good. When things get tough though it takes real character and grit to lead. The results of our leadership with this pandemic speak for themselves. Even a great country can flounder under an ineffectual leader. An ineffectual leader who also lacks integrity and character can really cause big problems.

You must be referring to NY and NJ where nearly half of all deaths occurred. I agree, they were woefully ill-prepared. You'd think the leaders of a densely populated area would have a COVID or equivalent plan in place. And worse they sent COVID patients to nursing homes which amplified the number of deaths while the USNS Comfort was sitting in the harbor empty. "We need ventilators!". "Oh, never mind, we have a stockpile". What a mess.

Then we have the other leaders who pulled their parents out of nursing homes while other "common folk" were stuck in those death traps. Another leader wouldn't allow people to travel, but they of course made it to their 2nd home at the lake, or vacationed in FL. Another leader is importing illegals by helicopter and giving them hospital beds in place of citizens, but claiming the number of new cases requires partial re-shutdown. Others planned to throw business owners in jail. Other leaders were so bad they wanted to allow protests but shut down Churches. Other leaders plans were "brilliant" like disallowing singles tennis but no problem shopping at Costco. How about you can go on wet sand but not dry sand? That's a knee-slapper!

The lack of leadership list could be 10,000 pages long. So yes, the leadership during this pandemic has been abysmal.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

To quote your article...

“The surge in patients consisted of U.S. citizens who live in Mexicali, capital of the Mexican state of Baja California, and were turned away from hospitals overrun with coronavirus cases there.”

They are US citizens just like you and me.

I watched the video of the nurse who said they have no idea of citizenship, and that the people are released without restriction after quarantine. I also heard stories about CA importing illegals by helicopter on major news/talk radio in Los Angeles. I have also heard from some folks who work for companies who have manufacturing facilities in Mexico that U.S. businesses are pressuring CA to treat their Mexican workers for COVID to keep their plants operational.

Sure, there's likely some U.S. citizens, but it seems to me based on various reports that it's a small fraction of who's being imported.

 

[rollin]

You must be referring to NY and NJ where nearly half of all deaths occurred. I agree, they were woefully ill-prepared. You'd think the leaders of a densely populated area would have a COVID or equivalent plan in place. And worse they sent COVID patients to nursing homes which amplified the number of deaths while the USNS Comfort was sitting in the harbor empty. "We need ventilators!". "Oh, never mind, we have a stockpile". What a mess.

Then we have the other leaders who pulled their parents out of nursing homes while other "common folk" were stuck in those death traps. Another leader wouldn't allow people to travel, but they of course made it to their 2nd home at the lake, or vacationed in FL. Another leader is importing illegals by helicopter and giving them hospital beds in place of citizens, but claiming the number of new cases requires partial re-shutdown. Others planned to throw business owners in jail. Other leaders were so bad they wanted to allow protests but shut down Churches. Other leaders plans were "brilliant" like disallowing singles tennis but no problem shopping at Costco. How about you can go on wet sand but not dry sand? That's a knee-slapper!

The lack of leadership list could be 10,000 pages long. So yes, the leadership during this pandemic has been abysmal.

I agree with alot you mention.

I will just add that when it comes to the population density of a place such as NYC and its immediate surrounding area, ...there is never any 'real" plan for anything.
Truth is for any public emergency they can act like they have plans but there is no way the resources are there to actually execute such plans. There are just far too many people.

lets take an evac emergency like an expected hurricane or some sort potential disaster. We cant even get through daily rush hr without enormous delays and often people having to sit in cars and on busses etc for hours just to get home on a normal day. I wont even mention if we get some snow. Do they really think we can be fooled into believing they will manage to get everyone out of the area in an emergency? I mean any plan they have has to be worlds apart from what would happen in reality.

As for covid or any problematic pandemic? There is no way on earth the health system would ever handle caring for a chunk of a percentage of 23 million people density all in one small area. I mean heck,...just in normal circumstances (pre covid) emergency rooms in the area are often crowded and wait times can be as painful as the problem you may be having.

i recall much earlier in the thread someone questioning how come NYC and surrounding area hospitals dont have enough and asks why or how can that be? Well,....because you got 23 million people in one small area and its just to darn many.
I mean its got one the best hospital systems as far as care and equippeed and many the best doctors and surgeons and medical expertise in the world. and very many folks from acros country and the world do come to NYC for medical treatment for that reason. But yet at the same time in a pandemic situation there are simply far too many people and its not possible to care for but only so many at once. The population is simply just much too dense.

 

[TheHeez]

I watched the video of the nurse who said they have no idea of citizenship, and that the people are released without restriction after quarantine. I also heard stories about CA importing illegals by helicopter on major news/talk radio in Los Angeles. I have also heard from some folks who work for companies who have manufacturing facilities in Mexico that U.S. businesses are pressuring CA to treat their Mexican workers for COVID to keep their plants operational.

Sure, there's likely some U.S. citizens, but it seems to me based on various reports that it's a small fraction of who's being imported.

Prove it. We can all make up things that fits our world view, some of us just choose not to.

 

[JB]

Sure, there's likely some U.S. citizens, but it seems to me based on various reports that it's a small fraction of who's being imported.

Can you link to these reports?
The original one you posted suggested that they are US Citizens or Green Card holders and absolutely should be able to come home. Just as it was when we locked down travel from other countries.

 

[LICC]

Coronavirus hospitalizations grow in 23 states as Texas admissions soar to new record

The number of people hospitalized with Covid-19 was growing by 5% or more in 23 states, based on a seven-day moving average, according to the Covid Tracking Project.

www.cnbc.com

Texas had more than 8,000 hospitalized Covid-19 patients on Sunday, a record number of hospitalizations and one of the highest in the country, according to a CNBC analysis of data compiled by the Covid Tracking Project.

The number of people hospitalized with Covid-19 grew by 5% or more Sunday in 23 states, based on a seven-day moving average, according to data compiled by the Covid Tracking Project, an independent volunteer organization launched by journalists at The Atlantic.

Public health experts watch hospitalizations closely because it can indicate how severe an outbreak is in an area. It’s considered a better measure than new cases because it’s not as reliant on the availability of testing.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

I agree with alot you mention.

I will just add that when it comes to the population density of a place such as NYC and its immediate surrounding area, ...there is never any 'real" plan for anything.
Truth is for any public emergency they can act like they have plans but there is no way the resources are there to actually execute such plans. There are just far too many people.

lets take an evac emergency like an expected hurricane or some sort potential disaster. We cant even get through daily rush hr without enormous delays and often people having to sit in cars and on busses etc for hours just to get home on a normal day. I wont even mention if we get some snow. Do they really think we can be fooled into believing they will manage to get everyone out of the area in an emergency? I mean any plan they have has to be worlds apart from what would happen in reality.

As for covid or any problematic pandemic? There is no way on earth the health system would ever handle caring for a chunk of a percentage of 23 million people density all in one small area. I mean heck,...just in normal circumstances (pre covid) emergency rooms in the area are often crowded and wait times can be as painful as the problem you may be having.

i recall much earlier in the thread someone questioning how come NYC and surrounding area hospitals dont have enough and asks why or how can that be? Well,....because you got 23 million people in one small area and its just to darn many.
I mean its got one the best hospital systems as far as care and equipped and many the best doctors and surgeons and medical expertise in the world. and very many folks from acros country and the world do come to NYC for medical treatment for that reason. But yet at the same time in a pandemic situation there are simply far too many people and its not possible to care for but only so many at once. The population is simply just much too dense.

Excellent points. What irks a lot of people is the state govts act like they have no control over their own state when things go wrong. There's no federal law that precludes NY from building a 1,000 new hospitals if that's how they want to spend their money. But does population density really equate to death rate? I looked up some info on Paris vs. New York City.

Paris population: ~11M
Paris square miles: 40.7
Population density per square mile: ~270,000

NYC population: ~18.8M.
NYC square miles: 302.6
Population density per square mile: ~62,000

Paris Deaths: 1,754 (source attached...NYT)
NYC Deaths: 22,661

Based on the data, Paris has 4X the population density of NYC, but NYC had 12X the number of deaths. It's interesting because one would have expected the death rate in Paris with 4.3X higher density would result in a 4X higher death rate than NYC. Maybe they didn't record every death as COVID-related? But based on the data something is not jiving if density = death rates.

 

[Elmave]

Curious about the numbers as they speak in terms of “ positive tests” and not new cases. We know a nurse who had it and fortunately recovered without any complications. She needed to retest to go back to work and over the course of three tests over three weeks each weeks test resulted in a positive finding. The fourth test came back negative and she returned to work. Based on the reporting it appears each positive test would be reported that way and would create the appearance not of someone who had previously tested positive and was now symptom free rather it would appear to be a new case.It would seem there shoul be a separate cafegory for those individuals as it would change the number and show which are new reducing the percentages being reported and giving a clearer picture.

 

[DataDude]

You must be referring to NY and NJ where nearly half of all deaths occurred. I agree, they were woefully ill-prepared. You'd think the leaders of a densely populated area would have a COVID or equivalent plan in place. And worse they sent COVID patients to nursing homes which amplified the number of deaths while the USNS Comfort was sitting in the harbor empty. "We need ventilators!". "Oh, never mind, we have a stockpile". What a mess.

Then we have the other leaders who pulled their parents out of nursing homes while other "common folk" were stuck in those death traps. Another leader wouldn't allow people to travel, but they of course made it to their 2nd home at the lake, or vacationed in FL. Another leader is importing illegals by helicopter and giving them hospital beds in place of citizens, but claiming the number of new cases requires partial re-shutdown. Others planned to throw business owners in jail. Other leaders were so bad they wanted to allow protests but shut down Churches. Other leaders plans were "brilliant" like disallowing singles tennis but no problem shopping at Costco. How about you can go on wet sand but not dry sand? That's a knee-slapper!

The lack of leadership list could be 10,000 pages long. So yes, the leadership during this pandemic has been abysmal.

Thank you for proving my point. No one was leading so everyone kind of had to figure it out on their own. Instead of a cohesive plan from the federal level where our country actually has expertise with these sort of things, those experts were told to stay out of it and then each state and locality had to make their own decisions without the expertise to do so. Now we are 7 months in and we still have no cohesive plan and our country is a laughingstock worldwide.

 

[JB]

Thank you for proving my point. No one was leading so everyone kind of had to figure it out on their own. Instead of a cohesive plan from the federal level where our country actually has expertise with these sort of things, those experts were told to stay out of it and then each state and locality had to make their own decisions without the expertise to do so. Now we are 7 months in and we still have no cohesive plan and our country is a laughingstock worldwide.

Im going to be delicate in this response as it borders on political, but that i not how this country was founded or lives.
Rules in North Dakota don't have to be the same as they are in TX or CA or NY.
Could you imagine if the rest of the country listened to NY early on and took in a show? Or worse, how that state handled retirement facilities?

States are the place to make these judgements and as we have seen many of them are capable, while others want to play the blame game. Making recommendations for state levels and even more local than that to decide on is one of the best parts of America.

Growing positive tests isn't news. Or at least shouldn't be. That is what happens when more testing by a landslide is available and a country goes back to work to save the lives of millions of people that are on the brink of financial disaster.

 

[EnglishTurn]

Thank you for proving my point. No one was leading so everyone kind of had to figure it out on their own. Instead of a cohesive plan from the federal level where our country actually has expertise with these sort of things, those experts were told to stay out of it and then each state and locality had to make their own decisions without the expertise to do so. Now we are 7 months in and we still have no cohesive plan and our country is a laughingstock worldwide.

Fauci was on tv ten times a day telling people what they should and shouldn't be doing. If everything has to come from the federal government then the state and local officials can f off when they say I have to shut my business down!!!

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[2BFAST]

That is what happens when more testing by a landslide is available and a country goes back to work to save the lives of millions of people that are on the brink of financial disaster.

This was in a yard in Quincy, IL (which is right across the river from me) the other day......:facepalm:

 

[Vortex]

This was in a yard in Quincy, IL (which is right across the river from me) the other day......:facepalm:

View attachment 8952161

Similar signs in MN and I had the same reaction.

 

[Desmond]

Im going to be delicate in this response as it borders on political, but that i not how this country was founded or lives.
Rules in North Dakota don't have to be the same as they are in TX or CA or NY.
Could you imagine if the rest of the country listened to NY early on and took in a show? Or worse, how that state handled retirement facilities?

States are the place to make these judgements and as we have seen many of them are capable, while others want to play the blame game. Making recommendations for state levels and even more local than that to decide on is one of the best parts of America.

Growing positive tests isn't news. Or at least shouldn't be. That is what happens when more testing by a landslide is available and a country goes back to work to save the lives of millions of people that are on the brink of financial disaster.

This is a general response, not particularly to JB. Maybe it compliments his post.

Nothing is simple, and sometimes, in emergencies, you have bad luck and good luck.

As to the past, we had more good luck with H1N1 because it was relatively mild and we only needed one dose of vaccine instead of the planned two doses. They had some screwups with the vaccine because it took longer to make than anticipated. Fauci and health experts took the lead, but then, that emergency was not as severe as Covid.

Covid is another ballgame. I was reading a twitter feed of someone who experienced it and she said the after affects of Covid have lingered for a long time and still linger months after the initial recovery. And it was horrible. I said, "Oh, Crap."

And from the above posts, I think some are aggregating the various responses of the States as if it all took place at once and with knowledge. As you know, it did not. NY was hit with a more virulent strain of Covid and had entered the NYC much earlier than realized. They made errors due to ignorance and lack of safety rules. The Feds and most States made lots of odd decisions. Lots of stupidity and bad luck to pass around to everyone. The only good luck has been the development of various therapies so people don't die from it as much.

I think the Feds have a role - PPE, Machines, coordinating supplies, public health advice to the public and governors, motivate others to develop vaccines and coordinate the supply and distribution.

States have a role to customize the public health needs of their people depending on the situation.

If it gets really bad, I guess the Feds eventually step in to arm-twist Governors.

To focus on the past gets us nowhere. The question is What do we do now to keep an open economy, keep the public from panicking, keep hospital capacity down.

But this constant reliving of the past is not real - it's gone - let's focus on lessons learned and living in the present. What do we do now to help each other?

 

[DataDude]

Im going to be delicate in this response as it borders on political, but that i not how this country was founded or lives.
Rules in North Dakota don't have to be the same as they are in TX or CA or NY.
Could you imagine if the rest of the country listened to NY early on and took in a show? Or worse, how that state handled retirement facilities?

States are the place to make these judgements and as we have seen many of them are capable, while others want to play the blame game. Making recommendations for state levels and even more local than that to decide on is one of the best parts of America.

Growing positive tests isn't news. Or at least shouldn't be. That is what happens when more testing by a landslide is available and a country goes back to work to save the lives of millions of people that are on the brink of financial disaster.

Oh I'm sorry did we not have a federal shutdown? I remember us having one and it was totally ineffectual because it rendered many states shutdown while there was no/very low viral spread in their borders.

 

[Vortex]

Thank you for proving my point. No one was leading so everyone kind of had to figure it out on their own. Instead of a cohesive plan from the federal level where our country actually has expertise with these sort of things, those experts were told to stay out of it and then each state and locality had to make their own decisions without the expertise to do so. Now we are 7 months in and we still have no cohesive plan and our country is a laughingstock worldwide.

Federalism FTW!
The 10th Amendment defines the concept of Federalism, the relationship between Federal and state governments. As Federal activity increases in becomes harder to reconcile state vs national interests as they apply to Federal powers.

For the older crowd...

 

[2BFAST]

Similar signs in MN and I had the same reaction.

I know Dave....I just shook my head and went on down the road.

 

[rollin]

Excellent points. What irks a lot of people is the state govts act like they have no control over their own state when things go wrong. There's no federal law that precludes NY from building a 1,000 new hospitals if that's how they want to spend their money. But does population density really equate to death rate? I looked up some info on Paris vs. New York City.

Paris population: ~11M
Paris square miles: 40.7
Population density per square mile: ~270,000

NYC population: ~18.8M.
NYC square miles: 302.6
Population density per square mile: ~62,000

Paris Deaths: 1,754 (source attached...NYT)
NYC Deaths: 22,661

Based on the data, Paris has 4X the population density of NYC, but NYC had 12X the number of deaths. It's interesting because one would have expected the death rate in Paris with 4.3X higher density would result in a 4X higher death rate than NYC. Maybe they didn't record every death as COVID-related? But based on the data something is not jiving if density = death rates.

You may need to double check what your searching. or perhaps im the one seeing the totaly wrong info.
Your population figures (Ibeleive) pertain to the "paris-metro area" which is not "paris" but is enormously larger than 40 sq miles and more like 6000 sg miles.
paris itself is about 2.1 million people.
And with that in mind...manhattan island being about half that size and yet having about 4 million folks on a basic workday. And thats yet to even consider the other 5 boroughs of NYC let alone the population of rts so called surrounding "metropolitan area".
Paris certainly no countryside...lol but unless i am way wrong or misunderstanding something, still doesnt at all match NY in this sense.

 

[JB]

Oh I'm sorry did we not have a federal shutdown? I remember us having one and it was totally ineffectual because it rendered many states shutdown while there was no/very low viral spread in their borders.

Actually not exactly, and like most things there is a bit to dive into. Seven states did not have shelter in place orders and one state did not require businesses to close.

I urge you to take a look at what was done at the federal level vs the state level.

 

[EnglishTurn]

@GolfLivesMatter

Just imagine what a great job all of those cloth masks are doing.

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[GolfLivesMatter]

Can you link to these reports?
The original one you posted suggested that they are US Citizens or Green Card holders and absolutely should be able to come home. Just as it was when we locked down travel from other countries.

The reports are mainly from local radio shows like KFI640 who follow this closely out here. There's also a Desert Sun article....excerpt below...

“There are a number of U.S. citizens living in Mexicali that will have an address in the United States, because they are U.S. citizens,” Lewis said. “It’s difficult to track and actually identify them.”

"There are a number of U.S. citizens"....but...."it's difficult to track and actually identify them". Why would it be hard to identify and track U.S. citizens?

Imperial County hospitals respond to influx of COVID-19 patients

The CEO of a hospital in El Centro said many of the COVID-19 patients are U.S. citizens who live in Mexico and are crossing the border to seek treatment.

www.desertsun.com

 

[JB]

The reports are mainly from local radio shows like KFI640 who follow this closely out here. There's also a Desert Sun article....excerpt below...

“There are a number of U.S. citizens living in Mexicali that will have an address in the United States, because they are U.S. citizens,” Lewis said. “It’s difficult to track and actually identify them.”

"There are a number of U.S. citizens"....but...."it's difficult to track and actually identify them". Why would it be hard to identify and track U.S. citizens?

Imperial County hospitals respond to influx of COVID-19 patients

The CEO of a hospital in El Centro said many of the COVID-19 patients are U.S. citizens who live in Mexico and are crossing the border to seek treatment.

www.desertsun.com

Im confused, they are US citizens, which is what the original article said. Why would we not let them back in for treatment?
Sure someone can speculate that they aren't who they say they are, but that currently is without any merit or facts.