For me it a matter of hitting greens.
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Been there, done that. A couple weeks ago I hit a BOMB (for me) and right into a hazard I had no idea was there.There's not much worse then bombing a great drive on a new course then finding out it ended up in an unseen hazard.
The double bogey scenario is almost always the result of a penalty, which is more often than not the result of a tee shot.
Funny thing was I basically did a club twirl, grabbed the tee and was headed back to the cart. Kinda warm & fuzzy, I glanced down the fairway and saw that dang splash... at least I knew the fate instead of scanning the bank hoping it plugged up short or something...Been there, done that. A couple weeks ago I hit a BOMB (for me) and right into a hazard I had no idea was there.
A 90 golfer hits shots that are just as good as the 80 golfer, but the 80 golfer hits them more often. That sounds obvious, but it's not.
Honestly though, how often are you near the green in 2 on a par 4 (3 on a par 5) and then take 4 shots to get into the hole? I know it's possible, but should be pretty rare if you are able to get the ball moving toward the hole consistently and are trying to go from shooting in the 90's to the 80's.If I drank it, I'd definitely tell you hold my beer on that one. I could show you a thing or two.
Beg to differ on this point. I am frequently GIR+1 and shoots 80s all the time. To be fair, I have a pretty good chipping and putting game.Players that are consistently taking 3 shots to get to the green on a par 4 (4 shots on a par 5) are not shooting scores in the 90's.
Before I struck my first golf shot I had been caddyng for my house mate who was our local club professional and had witnessed many of our countries best golfers in action. My mate was the same age as me who had completed his apprenticeship under a pro who taught Peter Thompson's golf swing. We had pictures of Thompson's swing struck on the walls throughout the house.wow....6 months to break 80. Thats incredible.
I been playing for decades and struggle to keep things below 90 (and still most rounds are not).
Its amazing to me how many folks out there this game came so relatively easy for. I mean good for you but thats incredible. I mean even to say shooting sub 90 regularly in just 6 months in itself would be incredible. But braking 80? just wow!
There are a lot of assumptions, inaccuracies, and unfamiliarity with @OGputtnfool 's cards in this statement. Anything and everything IS possible out there, especially by him.Honestly though, how often are you near the green in 2 on a par 4 (3 on a par 5) and then take 4 shots to get into the hole? I know it's possible, but should be pretty rare if you are able to get the ball moving toward the hole consistently and are trying to go from shooting in the 90's to the 80's.
Players that are consistently taking 3 shots to get to the green on a par 4 (4 shots on a par 5) are not shooting scores in the 90's. It's mathematically impossible. Even if a player only does so half of a round, they are still already in the 80's just from the extra approach shots. That's before we factor in any penalties, two chips/pitches, and/or 3 putts.
Lol, no. It’s simple math. Take @millsan1 for example, he says he is frequently GIR+1. I don’t know what frequently is to him, but if you do that for 18 holes you are at 90 before any other mistakes/strokes. This just goes back to many, if not the majority, dramatically under-estimating their real index. I think for many it’s not on purpose.There are a lot of assumptions, inaccuracies, and unfamiliarity with @OGputtnfool 's cards in this statement. Anything and everything IS possible out there, especially by him.
Lol, no. It’s simple math. Take @millsan1 for example, he says he is frequently GIR+1. I don’t know what frequently is to him, but if you do that for 18 holes you are at 90 before any other mistakes/strokes. This just goes back to many, if not the majority, dramatically under-estimating their real index. I think for many it’s not on purpose.
Lol, no. It’s simple math. Take @millsan1 for example, he says he is frequently GIR+1. I don’t know what frequently is to him, but if you do that for 18 holes you are at 90 before any other mistakes/strokes. This just goes back to many, if not the majority, dramatically under-estimating their real index. I think for many it’s not on purpose.
I apologize - I would have thought that a hole with a yardage in the 120-150 yard range would be a reasonable single-shot expectation, even for a 90 shooter. Would it be a fair comment that without water they are likely a penalty-free tee shot? Unlike, say a par 4 or 5 where you might slice driver OB?I think par 3s are the hardest to get par in general & 5s are a free par
My original thought process was what it would take to turn a score of 90 into a score where the first digit is an 8, not necessarily drop 10 strokes to go from 90 to 80. Bogey on every hole would put you at 90; if you could convert just one or two of those into pars you will be the in the 80s. I agree 110% that turning a score of 90 into a score of 80 is far more involved. No different than trying to get to scratch from a 5 handicap.The problem with your statement is that everything you mention is indeed very significant and nothing about it is to be considered just a few small things. Your statements in red below followed by my answers to them show just how very significant the difference is. .
Think of it this way:
- bogey golf on a par 72 course is 90
And yet an 80 only leaves 8 shots worth of forgiveness vs 18 shots for the 90. Thats a world of difference over only 80 attempted strokes. Huge significance
- par 3s usually present the best opportunity for par, and most courses have at least 4 of them
a 90 player does not hit many greens at all vs an 80 player so the par3 is no more touchable green than any other hole and yet the 90 player is more errant more times and also less efficient at finishing while also being further away and or also from worse lie situations.
- I always consider that on a par 5 you get one "less than perfect" shot but can still make par or at worst bogey
There is a huge reason why many par5's are often among the higher handicapped holes on most courses even though those same holes may often be considered some the easiest ones on that course. Its because highest cap holes are not the hardest holes but instead are the ones in which the bogey (90) player needs the most help vs the scratch player (or in this case the 80 player). The p5 is where the 90 player needs the most help because his lack of consistent ball striking struggles to allow him 3 good shots in a row. He simply just not doing that nearly as often and in fact very often not doing it. The difference in consistent ball striking (or lack of) is too significant.
- avoiding the penalties is paramount; counting by twos runs up the total quick
yes it does ...I agree totaly and again not at all something insignificant but indeed a very big deal. Significant lack of consistency with ball striking required to stop being penal. Some of which can be tamed from stropping the bad decisions but none the less is still lack of consistency.
- if you can hit 50% of the par 4s and 5s in regulation even the dreaded 3 jack still leaves you with bogey. I would bet most golfers would convert a portion of those into pars with good lag putting
Chances are if the 90 player was hitting 50% he would already be the 80 player (and maybe better) ..... I mean just think about that one. And fwiw just about all of it (the above). The differences are all very significant and far from anything less.
How? GIR+1+1 (putt) is a par on any hole.Lol, no. It’s simple math. Take @millsan1 for example, he says he is frequently GIR+1. I don’t know what frequently is to him, but if you do that for 18 holes you are at 90 before any other mistakes/strokes.
Because the putting average for 6-10 index’s is 33.7 and 11-15 is 34.8. So neither index range is 1 putting enough to compensate. Maybe once in a while when they are playing their best and better than their index.How? GIR+1+1 (putt) is a par on any hole.
certainly 90 to 88ish is far different thing vs 90 to 80.My original thought process was what it would take to turn a score of 90 into a score where the first digit is an 8, not necessarily drop 10 strokes to go from 90 to 80. Bogey on every hole would put you at 90; if you could convert just one or two of those into pars you will be the in the 80s. I agree 110% that turning a score of 90 into a score of 80 is far more involved. No different than trying to get to scratch from a 5 handicap.
I can still vividly remember the first few rounds I played after taking a package of three lessons which changed my game forever. Prior to these I would shoot upper 80s to mid 90s, lose several balls per round and therefore accumulate several penalties. Two or three 7s on the card was normal. The biggest takeaway for me was the benefit of keeping the ball in play - finding the fairway, which then led to greens in regulation. That was my new goal: FIR and GIR would net me the occasional birdie, most of the time par and occasionally a bogey or worse.
I still believe that to go from a score of 90 to a score of 88 only requires that the player keep the ball moving forward - by not losing strokes to penalties, and to not compound one mistake with another.
Lol, no. This just goes back to many, if not the majority, dramatically under-estimating their real index. I think for many it’s not on purpose.
Lol so many assumptions.Because the putting average for 6-10 index’s is 33.7 and 11-15 is 34.8. So neither index range is 1 putting enough to compensate. Maybe once in a while when they are playing their best and better than their index.
I apologize - I would have thought that a hole with a yardage in the 120-150 yard range would be a reasonable single-shot expectation, even for a 90 shooter. Would it be a fair comment that without water they are likely a penalty-free tee shot? Unlike, say a par 4 or 5 where you might slice driver OB?
For me, when I "cracked the code" and went from a 90s shooter to 80 or better the biggest gains I saw were from eliminating the penalties, and playing FIR and GIR. Sure, I'd still 3 putt every now and again, but if I could find the fairway, and be on the green in regulation I had a very high percentage of making par. The more often the GIR happened, the more opportunities that presented themselves for birdie, and every now and again I could convert one. One birdie offsets a double-bogey in my mind when you are looking at the final tally.
Because the putting average for 6-10 index’s is 33.7 and 11-15 is 34.8. So neither index range is 1 putting enough to compensate. Maybe once in a while when they are playing their best and better than their index.
To not go back and grab all the quotes, etc. I'll summarize my typical game here:Because the putting average for 6-10 index’s is 33.7 and 11-15 is 34.8. So neither index range is 1 putting enough to compensate. Maybe once in a while when they are playing their best and better than their index.
30 putts is a pretty good averageThat is an average among divergent player types. More informative would be the 80+ percentile numbers because a person breaking 90 hitting little or no greens involves the claim of an unusually good short game. Raw number of putts also tends to be inversely proportional to the number of greens hit. My index right now is 12.4 and I'm at best average in the short game. I average 1.7 putts on missed greens, so I'd have an average of 30 putts if I hit no greens. If I miss every green I still have five more shots to waste before I'm above 90, and more on a course with a par of 70 or 71.