How’d she do?
Early morning golf...the right time to bring beginners out?
While I agree with your sentiments, when I take my daughters out 12/13, who are still learning the game, it much more enjoyable for us when we recognize we’re slow and the let people play through as we’re not rushed and can take our time and rehit shots if needed. No one should be a d-bag on the course in any manner, peeps just need to be cognizant of their realities/abilities so as a golfing community we continue to grow the game. Vets and beginners alike.
She did great considering she’s a sophomore and it was her first time being really nervous on a golf course. The slow play also bothered her quite a bit as the temps were in the 90’s. She definitely didn’t have her A game especially the second day but finished 56th out of 88 golfers. She improving rapidly and will play more golf this summer than she has in the last 4 years combined. I found an amazing instructor, Chris Foley, who has helped her more after 3 lessons than all of her previous lessons over the last 4 years.
That’s awesome for her! What a great experience. Now that club volleyball is over my oldest will start participating in the MN Jr PGA events and working with Steve Fessler who has been a massive help for all of the family and our golf game. She’ll play HS golf next year as a 9th grader so I’m excited to see how things go for her the rest of the summer.
It really does work well. I give him pointers and tips while we drive up to the ball, tell him what club I'm hitting so he can grab something similar. But most of all, it allows him to feel a part of the group, instead of always hitting from the rough, or the trees, or for the 5th time before we hit our 2nd shots. Not that we don't all do that, but sometimes doing it on each and every hole can get someone pretty down on themselves. Some holes he has a good drive, good approach, and plays basically his own ball the entire time. That's what you want to work up to, but with less pressure to play well right out of the gate and keep pace.
But that wasn't the way this thread was framed. It didn't seem like the people being slow were asked if you could just play through.
To be honest it sucks learning as someone almost 40 who has been a collegiate athlete, to have people judge you is terrible especially when you know you have the ability to play better but not the experience and knowledge to do so yet.
I guess there's a little bit of golden rule in my mentality overall, and it comes out on occasion. I'm very thankful that the people I have played with both from this forum and other friends have never treated me poorly while learning. I'm not saying you or anyone else did, I'm just making my statement that it wouldn't feel good and I'm glad it hasn't happened to me.
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- #57
Just want to mention again said group in front was totally fine after the first hole. It just spawned the question in my mind whether that course and that time was the right time/place to bring a beginner. In the end it would seem as long as pace is kept it doesn’t really matter and I’m totally on board with that.
I just question whether that guy had any fun out there and actually got to play or if he gave up at any point or felt rushed? Guess we’ll never know.
I just question whether that guy had any fun out there and actually got to play or if he gave up at any point or felt rushed? Guess we’ll never know.
As a beginner, when I am ready to start playing rounds, you best believe I am going to do it at times when it's going to affect the least amount of people possible. I will be more than happy to initially go for slots that are less busy.
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- #59
I dont necessarily disagree with much of this, but is pace of play and etiquette really something people are hiding behind or is it something that is an actual problem? I think it is easy to say we shouldn't care and welcome everybody, which is true. Yet just as you said, what if this newcomer only has that time available? True, but that goes for the more experienced player as well. What if they only have a certain time available? Should they be punished for wanting to play by the pace of play rules?
It is a tough scenario and one that is very hard to figure out the best case for all involved.
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I wouldn’t care if someone who wasn’t good played in a peak tee time, but they better play fast and the course staff should tell them that.
It sounds like they did fine except for the lesson. The player that gave the lesson should have known better. Especially with someone sitting there watching and waiting.
It sounds like they did fine except for the lesson. The player that gave the lesson should have known better. Especially with someone sitting there watching and waiting.
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- #61
I would think that would add pressure to the guy getting the lesson no? There was at least 8 people watching them on the tee. I agree that was odd and maybe the thing that bothered me the most
I had to teach my nephew the game (as well as my younger daughter), you know what they say, those that can't, teach. Anyway, I have no problem with a new golfer playing in the AM - ON A WEEKDAY. But, they are still required and responsible to 'the field' which in this case are all the other golfers being impacted by their slow play. So, sure, play, learn get a few tips on the way, but be aware of how your play/learing affects those around you. Both my nephew and my daughter understood this - because I taught it. So, sometimes they would tee off hack a few shots, pick up drop on or near the green, on other holes they would start at the 150 marker - ultimately they got lots of shots in, got some learning and did not impact the pace of play.
In my defense - I will say that we rarely played in the earlier rounds - though we would be on the course before 10.
So, having said all that - there are still TONS of other issues related to slow play that I find even more irresponsible and that I seem to run into on a regular basis. The last was (and I think I may have noted in another thread) 4 old guys that were so slow it was unbearable, front nine over 3 hours, back (we passed them at the turn) was closer to 1 hour, just a bit more. So, we had 4 guys playing that have played for easily 75 years combined behaving and acting as if no one was behind them - not a care in the world and as others noted - NOT A SINGLE MARSHALL seen the entire round.
How do we decide who plays and who doesn't? What I teach/taught was not only the swing - or my version of it (HA); it was the etiquette, the rules, how what you do affects others, etc. I tried to teach what I think the game is and what it means (or at least was supposed to mean).
In my defense - I will say that we rarely played in the earlier rounds - though we would be on the course before 10.
So, having said all that - there are still TONS of other issues related to slow play that I find even more irresponsible and that I seem to run into on a regular basis. The last was (and I think I may have noted in another thread) 4 old guys that were so slow it was unbearable, front nine over 3 hours, back (we passed them at the turn) was closer to 1 hour, just a bit more. So, we had 4 guys playing that have played for easily 75 years combined behaving and acting as if no one was behind them - not a care in the world and as others noted - NOT A SINGLE MARSHALL seen the entire round.
How do we decide who plays and who doesn't? What I teach/taught was not only the swing - or my version of it (HA); it was the etiquette, the rules, how what you do affects others, etc. I tried to teach what I think the game is and what it means (or at least was supposed to mean).
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Definitely. I would have made it worse and said something…
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- #64
Well luckily we didn’t have to since the starter had seen enough and walked up to them and said something. They were cool about it she said.
In my opinion, it is up to the course to clearly set, and enforce, pace of play. There should be a billboard in the pro shop that prominently displays maximum round time. Another on the first tee, large enough and positioned so that there is NO WAY you can avoid seeing it. Then, every hole or two, there needs to be a pace of play clock that clearly states what your pace of play on that hole needs to be to the minute. I.e. after this hole, you should be no more than 42 minutes from tee time, or whatever.
Finally, the course needs to be willing to do something about it for the enjoyment of everyone.
If pace of play was in your face with large red and white signs, people would start to get trained up. This is social conditioning people. And its sliding the wrong way.
Finally, the course needs to be willing to do something about it for the enjoyment of everyone.
If pace of play was in your face with large red and white signs, people would start to get trained up. This is social conditioning people. And its sliding the wrong way.
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- #66
True...yet golf courses all over that feature GPS in the carts clearly show if someone is on pace or not and it doesn't change much. They can even send messages to the players saying they are behind and nothing changes.
Sadly people just do not seem to care and are oblivious to the fact that it can wreck a day for the hundreds of others playing. Beginning golfers do not mean slow though.
@JB I believe it's both. People absolutely hide behind it, whether it's pace of play, etiquette or another term that may not even be good related as a rationale to treat others poorly, I unfortunately see it in a professional work setting rather frequently and I'm sure if you also know if instances where that's been true on the forum or in real life.
Then you are also right that this thread nor my responses didn't take into account the posters potential dilemma or thoughts.
My entire set of replies is just thinking about the other individual.
Then you are also right that this thread nor my responses didn't take into account the posters potential dilemma or thoughts.
My entire set of replies is just thinking about the other individual.
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- #68
If all golfers are to be welcome, all golfers should be treated by the same set of rules and pace and etiquette are part of that.
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- #70
I can honestly say I have never seen a course that didn't have rules laid out about repairing pitch marks, filling divots and raking bunkers. Local rules do apply to golfers. Combine that with etiquette as far as pace and players moving through and I believe its a fairly simple rule set.
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- #71
Im going to add to my posts above and say that just like my first post in this thread, I am adamant about beginners being able to play early. Not hit the range or junk course, but I do think its prudent that pace be kept. The course should be enjoyed by all skill levels and just like our THP Experiences, all should be welcome.
hartman29
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My dad sounds a lot like your neighbor. We played 9 for Fathers Day, and I can maybe get him out 3 times a year. He won’t hit it far, but if he’s way short and/or crooked he’ll pick up and drop by me.
There was a tournament at the course we played at too, and somehow got sandwiched between a couple of groups playing in it. Group in front was super slow, group behind was kind of quick. Made for a tough round.
Hamfist
I promise not to murder Canadan.
Yeah
I need to invent the self-driving cart that, when a group is still behind after X amount of warnings, will drive itself back to the clubhouse to deposit said group.
I'll add to my being a jerk that there's a difference between being a beginner and showing up on the first tee and your friends showing you how to hold a golf club. Beginners trying to get better need to be on the course to learn how to play the game, as opposed to just learning how to hit a ball. They can do this while keeping pace. You show up on the tee box and have to show your buddy which way to aim and which side of the ball to stand on, I'll politely ask that we go ahead of you.
Generally speaking, this is a tough one. The whole pace of play situation is a genuine Catch 22 for the game in my opinion because on one hand, you have a sport that is not super approachable to many because of the difficulty in starting and the expense, so you want to make a welcoming atmosphere for new players, and for many (right or wrong), being pushed to play faster is stressful and the opposite of welcoming. On the other hand, pace of play is critical to growing the game as several have said, because 4+ hours is just too long for most to fit into their schedule. I still really enjoy off season golf for just this reason - you can go out and walk with a couple buddies and finish 18 in 3-3.5 hours, or ride in even less.
The key in my opinion is to stress to EVERYONE the need to play ready golf. I have seen plenty of good golfers who are stupid slow, and plenty of terrible golfers who are at or well faster than pace. I also like the idea of a scramble style play for the newer player to get them hitting shots without being demoralized. Executive courses are also an excellent way to get people into the game in a much less intimidating way (and at a lower cost). But beginners are not the problem, and honestly they can be part of the solution to slow play if they are taught correctly!
I remember playing in the Cambridge area several years back and it was so refreshing to walk with 4 guys on a full course in 3.5 hours. And nobody felt rushed at all. I do know that it helps a lot that there's a lot of matchplay / fourballs in the UK vs almost exclusively stroke play in the US.
The key in my opinion is to stress to EVERYONE the need to play ready golf. I have seen plenty of good golfers who are stupid slow, and plenty of terrible golfers who are at or well faster than pace. I also like the idea of a scramble style play for the newer player to get them hitting shots without being demoralized. Executive courses are also an excellent way to get people into the game in a much less intimidating way (and at a lower cost). But beginners are not the problem, and honestly they can be part of the solution to slow play if they are taught correctly!
I remember playing in the Cambridge area several years back and it was so refreshing to walk with 4 guys on a full course in 3.5 hours. And nobody felt rushed at all. I do know that it helps a lot that there's a lot of matchplay / fourballs in the UK vs almost exclusively stroke play in the US.