Early morning golf...the right time to bring beginners out?

[Daluteh]

I can honestly say I have never seen a course that didn't have rules laid out about repairing pitch marks, filling divots and raking bunkers. Local rules do apply to golfers. Combine that with etiquette as far as pace and players moving through and I believe its a fairly simple rule set.

Putting words in your mouth, you believe golf has a simple rule set? I think we are getting away from the thread topic but I truly just think we have both respectfully given different opinions and we believe different things because we are coming at this from a different lens. Have a good day @JB I'm off to my 9-5.

 

[captaincaution]

Im going to add to my posts above and say that just like my first post in this thread, I am adamant about beginners being able to play early. Not hit the range or junk course, but I do think its prudent that pace be kept. The course should be enjoyed by all skill levels and just like our THP Experiences, all should be welcome.

I agree with you Josh. Everyone's money is as good as everyone else's. But just because you paid the same as everyone else, doesn't mean you get to be a Richard and play as slowly as you want. It is on the experienced golfers in the group to make sure that is understood by everyone. Does it put pressure on the newer golfer? Sure it does. I don't like doing it, my wife and sister-in-law don't like me doing it, but making sure we keep up is part of the game.

 

[TheDoctor]

I remember playing in the Cambridge area several years back and it was so refreshing to walk with 4 guys on a full course in 3.5 hours. And nobody felt rushed at all. I do know that it helps a lot that there's a lot of matchplay / fourballs in the UK vs almost exclusively stroke play in the US.

We have a lot of medal (strokeplay) competitions, but also a lot of Stableford competitions, so if someone can't score any points they will often pick up unless it is busy ahead and nothing would be gained from picking up

I also think that the way courses tend to be laid out over here can also be a reason why rounds take less time overall, as you often have tees close to the previous green and no long walks between holes etc (based on posts I read about US courses and how unfriendly the layouts can be to walkers)

I can't say for others, but the casual rounds we play, we always hole out, yet can still walk the round in anything from 3 - 3.5 hours depending on how busy it is - it only tends to be competition rounds that take longer

 

[PKorf]

This is a tough one in some ways as everyone has to start somewhere, it just depends on how much of a beginner this person really was, although it sounds like they can't be that bad if they had a fairly decent pace after they eventually teed off


I can't get behind that statement at all - handicap and pace of play are definitely not tied together as everyone knows, all you need to do is look at the pros on TV to see that. And I have played with plenty of people with low handicaps who take a lot longer than higher handicaps, so if I came across a course with that policy I would more than likely avoid it unless I really wanted to play there

Jen is still a relative beginner (WHS index 40+) so I am guessing there would be a lot of people who would roll their eyes if they were stuck behind us on the course, but we went out after work the other night, walked 8 holes, looked for balls after errant shots, hit multiple balls at times when a shot didn't go how we planned it and were still done in under 90 minutes without rushing, following a 4-ball ahead of us

“Getting behind this statement” is irrelevant as it’s not my stance had you read through my actual comments. It’s a position that a few local private courses take as well as at least one public course. Making a comparison to pga tour pros playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars , millions of dollars is a moot point. It’s their lively hood. If I had a 4 footer to make an extra $200k for a weekend, I’m confident I’d take a little more time too. The guy playing a $2 Nassau…..not so much.

 

[JW Smoove]

“Getting behind this statement” is irrelevant as it’s not my stance had you read through my actual comments. It’s a position that a few local private courses take as well as at least one public course. Making a comparison to pga tour pros playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars , millions of dollars is a moot point. It’s their lively hood. If I had a 4 footer to make an extra $200k for a weekend, I’m confident I’d take a little more time too. The guy playing a $2 Nassau…..not so much.

Unless he doesn't have the cash in his wallet. Just pointing out (I think?) what Lee Trevino said made him a great golfer and pressure player - not having the cash to cover bets before he turned pro - or something like that. But, in all seriousness, I get your point.

 

[PKorf]

Unless he doesn't have the cash in his wallet. Just pointing out (I think?) what Lee Trevino said made him a great golfer and pressure player - not having the cash to cover bets before he turned pro - or something like that. But, in all seriousness, I get your point.

Haha touché

 

[TheDoctor]

“Getting behind this statement” is irrelevant as it’s not my stance had you read through my actual comments. It’s a position that a few local private courses take as well as at least one public course. Making a comparison to pga tour pros playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars , millions of dollars is a moot point. It’s their lively hood. If I had a 4 footer to make an extra $200k for a weekend, I’m confident I’d take a little more time too. The guy playing a $2 Nassau…..not so much.

I did read your comments, but maybe didn't make it clear that I did - my comment was aimed at whatever course comes up with those ridiculous rules

But I still stand by my statement saying that handicap has nothing to do with pace of play, regardless of how much it is for - slow players will always be slow players

 

[mikeg_74]

New influx of golfers thanks to Covid. Great for the game, bad for securing tee times, pace of play and maybe the courses as I have seen so many divots and ball marks not being fixed. This morning @Lions81 and I arrived for our 7:30 tee time and was told there was a foursome in front of us which is fine as we were paired with another twosome. We stood there for a solid 10 mins and watched a guy who clearly had never played golf before get a lesson from his buddy on the first tee. At 7:30 AM on a track that isn't really conducive to beginner players. Eventually the starter walked over and told them to get moving and to be fair they did ok after that and eventually on the turn they let our foursome pass which saved us quite a bit of time on the back 9.

As a seasoned golfers we know better than to do such things don't we? I mean muni's are great for beginners as is twilight or afternoon golf? I'm just not sure that would even be fun for the guy who was struggling. Am I just being too get off my lawn?

You are spot on. When I take my daughter out with me it's twilight and usually only 9 holes. We make sure not to hold anyone up and let anyone through who is playing quicker than us.

I think a solid range session and some games in the short game area would be beneficial to a beginner versus jumping into the deep end for 18 holes.

 

[annsguy]

I gave this a lot of thought. New golfers have a life outside of golf like we do. Not sure it's fair to dictate when they should play because it slows us down. I agree it would be even better for them to play when there are less people on the course but if they pay they play.

 

[Scooby45]

I think we can all agree a lesson on the first tee is poor form.

However, to me it's a bit disheartening to hear folks claim certain times are better for beginners than others. If you can keep pace it shouldn't matter when you play. While most would say that 'prime time' golf is a weekend tee between 8-10, some of us think 'prime time' is an evening. I don't think either spot should be punished by slow play and all should be welcome whenever they are afforded the time to get to the course. And if that means you will look for less crowded times and let folks through if you want to play all the way out, perfect. If that means you can only get out at 9 am on a Saturday but are willing to pick up if you get behind, perfect.

I think it's pretty simple, keep up, pick up, or let others pass up and we can all enjoy the course.

 

[JohnSinVA]

IMHO, courses themselves could help alleviate some of the slow play issues associated with beginners. Since COVID began they’ve been basically printing money (maybe a bit hyperbolic, but my go to tracks have all raised their rates and it’s still tough to get times outside of twilight) with the influx of players filling their tee sheets. How about blocking off some times during the week for new players and having “etiquette” clinics that teach things that improve pace of play? Much of what I see slowing down rounds is stuff like both carts going to one ball, playing the shot, go to the next, hemming and hawing over “honors”, marking two foot putts, and so on. Encourage ready golf. If your ball it 30 yards away from your partners ball, grab a couple clubs and walk over to it rather than sitting in the cart and waiting. Got a lost ball in the group? Find yours then go help look. A lot of this stuff is learned eventually but courses could speed this up with some free clinics to new(er) players.

 

[SkiBumGolfer]

I agree with you Josh. Everyone's money is as good as everyone else's. But just because you paid the same as everyone else, doesn't mean you get to be a Richard and play as slowly as you want. It is on the experienced golfers in the group to make sure that is understood by everyone. Does it put pressure on the newer golfer? Sure it does. I don't like doing it, my wife and sister-in-law don't like me doing it, but making sure we keep up is part of the game.

Oh man, nothing drives me crazy like hearing golfers say "I paid my money, I'm taking my time." Just because you paid your money, does NOT mean you should be telling stories while you should be hitting on the tee box and reading your putt from 8 angles while everyone is waiting!!

I also think that the way courses tend to be laid out over here can also be a reason why rounds take less time overall, as you often have tees close to the previous green and no long walks between holes etc (based on posts I read about US courses and how unfriendly the layouts can be to walkers)

There is definitely some truth to this, but there are lots of older courses laid out very walker friendly in the US that still have a pace of play issue. I honestly think it's more of a mindset problem.

 

[Bryndom]

I don't mind beginners in early morning golf IF they understand the importance of pace of play and keep it moving. So long as they do that, then they won't trigger a cascade of delays for the later starts. Especially in Houston, it's just brutal trying to play in the afternoon. I did it when I was picking the sport up because of pace of play issues. I definitely started playing in the morning when I felt more comfortable keeping up

 

[jvbart]

I think it's fine for beginners to play anywhere/anytime they want but everyone needs to learn and respect pace of play rules and unwritten rules. When I first started out I actually played faster even though I would shoot 120-130 just because I would play fast and pick up if I fell behind. It's all about communicating how important pace of play is to all these new peeps finding the game.

 

[blugold]

Wow. Just read this entire thread. Way to start a Sunday.

Beginners can play whenever they want. More beginners the better fill the tee sheets. Get the course that revenue. More golfers on the course means more food and drink in the restaurant and that means even more revenue. Pack the tee sheet.

 

[jdtox]

Wow. Just read this entire thread. Way to start a Sunday.

Beginners can play whenever they want. More beginners the better fill the tee sheets. Get the course that revenue. More golfers on the course means more food and drink in the restaurant and that means even more revenue. Pack the tee sheet.

All about that money eh? While I agree to a certain extent I play during the week to avoid 5-5.5 hr rounds during these packed tee sheets on the weekends. One or two groups can seriously slow down the entire course for the day.

 

[RayG]

I would expand on that to say that the lesson can and should start in the car on the way over, and sound something like:

“Hey don’t worry about the rules, or your score, or where the ball goes. Take a swing, and if it goes great, we’ll go find it and hit it again, and if it doesn’t, just come out in the fairway with us and hit from there. Let’s just have fun until you get the hang of it. This game is tough even for long time players; don’t feel like you have to get it all right today.”

This… for the most part. We’ve done it plenty of times. HOWEVER… if it’s just a bunch of guys out with their buddy who isn’t out to score well and isn’t interested in getting better- fine. That works- dribbler off the tee, drop out by the shortest other drive and move on. In a trap? One try, then toss it out, etc… keeps things moving.
What I don’t like is someone who is really trying to get better and can advance the ball hears from their buddy- “oh, you’re in the trap, just toss it up there”. This is a bad thing in my opinion. If they aren’t holding anybody up, let them take a shot or three. You can’t learn it if you don’t do it. Most courses don’t have the facility to learn a bunker shot. You learn by doing. That’s how I got my short game and trouble shots down. As a beginner, I found all kinds of lies- then learned to play out of them. And they will stay with you as you advance in ability. They aren’t a new situation anymore so you rely on experience.
Plus- I learned the game from my Dad and Scottish Grandfather- “Laddie, play it as it lies…”

 

[jw.hamm808]

Those that understand etiquette understand that pace of play has little to do with skill. The best player in my group is the slowest.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[blugold]

All about that money eh? While I agree to a certain extent I play during the week to avoid 5-5.5 hr rounds during these packed tee sheets on the weekends. One or two groups can seriously slow down the entire course for the day.

I wouldn't say it's all about the money, but more people playing golf means fewer golf courses close and more people enjoy the game. The more people who joy the game, the more companies can spend on developing new gear.

There's nothing good about fewer people playing golf.

I have enough friends in the golf business that I like seeing them succeed and thrive.

 

[JonMA1]

As a seasoned golfers we know better than to do such things don't we? I mean muni's are great for beginners as is twilight or afternoon golf? I'm just not sure that would even be fun for the guy who was struggling. Am I just being too get off my lawn?

No you're not being too "get off my lawn".

I might bring a newer player out first thing but would make sure he/she knew pace of play would be very important. Scramble format... leave the ball in the woods and take a drop... pick up and move on whenever necessary... there are a lot of ways to keep pace even at a crappy level (I should know). As @5150 suggested, make sure they know what has to happen. Whether or not we can agree on what is an appropriate pace, we all know it is an issue worth addressing with a newer player.

A complete beginner? I would not. Wait until the course is slowest to learn all of the things that require explanation.

 

[5150]

This… for the most part. We’ve done it plenty of times. HOWEVER… if it’s just a bunch of guys out with their buddy who isn’t out to score well and isn’t interested in getting better- fine. That works- dribbler off the tee, drop out by the shortest other drive and move on. In a trap? One try, then toss it out, etc… keeps things moving.
What I don’t like is someone who is really trying to get better and can advance the ball hears from their buddy- “oh, you’re in the trap, just toss it up there”. This is a bad thing in my opinion. If they aren’t holding anybody up, let them take a shot or three. You can’t learn it if you don’t do it. Most courses don’t have the facility to learn a bunker shot. You learn by doing. That’s how I got my short game and trouble shots down. As a beginner, I found all kinds of lies- then learned to play out of them. And they will stay with you as you advance in ability. They aren’t a new situation anymore so you rely on experience.
Plus- I learned the game from my Dad and Scottish Grandfather- “Laddie, play it as it lies…”

I agree. It’s situational, right? The OP’s situation sounded like they had a first-timer out there. I would treat that differently than someone who’s put in some time and effort at the range and wants to improve.

 

[Subsonic]

I was told years ago... No one cares how bad you are as long as you are fast.

1) Take a buddy to the range a few times to make sure they can somewhat hit the ball.
2) If you are on the course at peak hours, focus on having a good time and not score. Encourage them to pick up when they are struggling or drop at your tee ball if they cannot get off the tee.
3) Try to find opportunities for them to play in a relaxed environment.

ABOVE ALL ELSE BE FAST!!

 

[Subsonic]

Anyone should be able to make any te time they want. However, for pace fo play purposes i know of a few courses that strictly disallow anyone over a 15 hdcp to play before 11 am. that seems harsh......but i also get it as i absolutely loathe slow play. tough call. during the week, early morning, i don tthink it would bother nor would it affect m very much

That 15 HDCP rule is counterintuitive. Often better players are pretty slow. Grinding out those putts. Constantly using the fancy meter to get yardages etc...

 

[AndyL0711]

No one has to be fast...just keep pace. No clue why everyone wants to play fast. Have fun and keep pace with the group in front if you.

 

[Subsonic]

No one has to be fast...just keep pace. No clue why everyone wants to play fast. Have fun and keep pace with the group in front if you.

That is also known as fast!