Generally yes but it hitting off grass can also change other aspects like launch angle.
First Look: Callaway Apex 21 Irons
Generally yes but it hitting off grass can also change other aspects like launch angle.
TheLutesMamba
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Interesting. I want the TCBs in my bag badly. Just need to get the shaft and numbers figured out somehow.
Okay. Yeah, I like those irons. That difference in loft is surely playing a role in the differences you're seeing. You said you planned to take the TCB 1 strong. That will definitely help get a little of that back. I think it's helpful to think of spin in terms of yardage rather than club numbers sometimes too. Like, I know what I want my 185 club to spin at. And my 172 club, etc. So your TCB 1 strong will play maybe like a 7 1/4 iron (whatever that launch, spin, & yardage is) of your PXG with the same shaft, and the testing one more like a 7 1/2. That's not an elegant description probably, but directly comparing irons with limited tech across loft differences isn't really fair.
There could be shafts that will help you deliver less loft and bring your launch and spin down, but you'll have to try them. The LS are known for generally doing that though.
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Appreciate it! That makes sense thinking about it from a yardage and spin standpoint and not necessarily the number on the bottom of the club. If I’m hitting my numbers and am more consistent then something on the high spin side should be fine. I fight spin with every fitting and club in the bag. I’m never going to be a low spin player.
I was by golf Galaxy today so I stopped in to hit the Project X LS 6.5 (they actually have trackman in there now). They didn’t have TCB so I hit the X-Forged 7 iron. Spin numbers definitely came down a bit. Got some down to the low 6000 range but still had some hovering around 7000 too. Not sure if it was the shaft, club head, swingweight, or simply an off day with my swing but definitely had more misses and not nearly as many flushed shots as the TCB with the X100. I also could tell I had to work a little harder with the LS shaft and I don’t love that.
I don’t want to completely rule out the LS shaft because it likely would result in better launch and spin number but I’d be sacrificing some feel. Currently leaning X100 or MMT graphite shafts but haven’t made a decision.
Sorry for turning this thread into my personal fitting story haha Not many places I can talk in depth golf stuff like this.
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Keep posting lol I'm dying to get my TCBs so any talk about them is good in my eyes
Have you reached @Tevenor levels yet?
I tried to love the LS too, but just couldn't. Play them fine really, but I react too much to them and it limits my shots. Hard to say what might work for you. C Tapers have worked for people for a long time, but we're all different. Sometimes a softer handle will work better than a stiff tip, etc. I play DG 120 X100 hard stepped once in my TCBs but played a good portion of '21 with IO 6.5 and IO 6.5 hard stepped in TCB heads too. One of the guys here that plays them, and is pretty fast, plays Modus 120x hard stepped twice I think. :confused2:
The things we do for the heads we love..
TheLutesMamba
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I tried to love the LS too, but just couldn't. Play them fine really, but I react too much to them and it limits my shots. Hard to say what might work for you. C Tapers have worked for people for a long time, but we're all different. Sometimes a softer handle will work better than a stiff tip, etc. I play DG 120 X100 hard stepped once in my TCBs but played a good portion of '21 with IO 6.5 and IO 6.5 hard stepped in TCB heads too. One of the guys here that plays them, and is pretty fast, plays Modus 120x hard stepped twice I think. :confused2:
The things we do for the heads we love..
Appreciate it! Yep I’ve been holding off on testing the Mizuno 223 and the Titleist T100 just because I want the Apex TCB so badly. The TCBs felt like nothing I’ve ever hit before. I need them in my life haha
I may do more testing with some of those shafts this weekend. Otherwise, I’m leaning just going with DGX100 or MMT 125TX and seeing the results on the course. I was flushing the TCBs with the X100 and I feel like I just need to stop psyching myself out on the spin numbers I was getting.
If you don’t mind, what exactly would hard stepping a shaft do? Does it make it stiffer/spin less?
That's a pretty nuanced discussion, but in simplest terms it stiffens the flex a bit, yes. It can have other effects like slight spin changes and stuff but it probably depends on player and profile.
For me, when things are good I can swing fast enough within my move to create unwanted deflection in some lighter shafts that play great when I'm taking it a little easier. I don't physically want to swing a ~130g shaft all the time though just to counter that. Hard pass for me. Ship has sailed. Lol So I tend to look for a little lighter but still pretty stiff shafts and then sometimes stiffening them a little more can be a good move towards best of both worlds type thing for me. Doesn't weigh a ton, but holds up well when I think I'm John Daly.
There are times when it can work against too though. Like, 2x hard stepping one made it a worse fit for me once because it moved the bend profile enough that it changed the feel, was harder to time, and crept into my dispersion. Cause it's not just a stiffer shaft throughout, the step lengths and things have changed. Same with soft stepping the other direction. I used to do it a lot in my wedges. Little more feel and stuff, but it just doesn't work for me great right now. Or, as well. Changes my timing on full swings a bit, has slightly different outputs, and is just harder to control to as fine a degree. Honestly, it's all kind of the minutiae that makes us all crazy people when it comes to golf and matters very little to everyone else.
That's a pretty nuanced discussion, but in simplest terms it stiffens the flex a bit, yes. It can have other effects like slight spin changes and stuff but it probably depends on player and profile.
For me, when things are good I can swing fast enough within my move to create unwanted deflection in some lighter shafts that play great when I'm taking it a little easier. I don't physically want to swing a ~130g shaft all the time though just to counter that. Hard pass for me. Ship has sailed. Lol So I tend to look for a little lighter but still pretty stiff shafts and then sometimes stiffening them a little more can be a good move towards best of both worlds type thing for me. Doesn't weigh a ton, but holds up well when I think I'm John Daly.
I've done the heavier and softer route ( 125g steel in S+ ) and I've tried the lighter and stiffer route ( 110g graphite in XS ). I ended up sticking with and getting much more benefit from the lighter and stiffer shafts as far as control and consistency. ALso helped alleviate some join wear and pain in my old beat up joints.
TheLutesMamba
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That's a pretty nuanced discussion, but in simplest terms it stiffens the flex a bit, yes. It can have other effects like slight spin changes and stuff but it probably depends on player and profile.
For me, when things are good I can swing fast enough within my move to create unwanted deflection in some lighter shafts that play great when I'm taking it a little easier. I don't physically want to swing a ~130g shaft all the time though just to counter that. Hard pass for me. Ship has sailed. Lol So I tend to look for a little lighter but still pretty stiff shafts and then sometimes stiffening them a little more can be a good move towards best of both worlds type thing for me. Doesn't weigh a ton, but holds up well when I think I'm John Daly.
Appreciate the messages! Now it’s got me thinking DG 120 X100 or MMT 105TX instead of regular X100 or 125TX. I’ve used project X 6.5 in the past and at my most recent fitting (early 2021) I was fit into something a bit lighter (the Oban 115). Have had some wrist issues that flare up at times which is what’s been pushing me to the MMT shafts. Have read the 105TX and 125TX are modeled after DG X100 but would be smoother on the wrist. Plus the black MMT shafts would look
with the Apex TCB heads.
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MMT with TCB is exactly what I will have shortly. They are going to look PERFECTAppreciate the messages! Now it’s got me thinking DG 120 X100 or MMT 105TX instead of regular X100 or 125TX. I’ve used project X 6.5 in the past and at my most recent fitting (early 2021) I was fit into something a bit lighter (the Oban 115). Have had some wrist issues that flare up at times which is what’s been pushing me to the MMT shafts. Have read the 105TX and 125TX are modeled after DG X100 but would be smoother on the wrist. Plus the black MMT shafts would look
TheLutesMamba
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That’s fantastic. What flex did you end up going with in the MMT shafts?
Appreciate the messages! Now it’s got me thinking DG 120 X100 or MMT 105TX instead of regular X100 or 125TX. I’ve used project X 6.5 in the past and at my most recent fitting (early 2021) I was fit into something a bit lighter (the Oban 115). Have had some wrist issues that flare up at times which is what’s been pushing me to the MMT shafts. Have read the 105TX and 125TX are modeled after DG X100 but would be smoother on the wrist. Plus the black MMT shafts would look
I played the Obans in 125g S+ and loved the feel. Didn't like the job they did on my body. Switched to 110 Recoil Protos F5 and solve a ton of issues, including sore wrists and elbow pain.
For TCBs I have coming from Callaway we went with the Steelfiber i110cw XStiff to keep the feel and be sure they didn't have the recoils to hit.
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You want TCB goodness here you go. Shot a 72 at the home course with all this Callaway/Toulon goodness. 3 birdies/3 bogies - 27 putts. Always just one shot from my PB at the home course. Leaked oil in the last three holes.
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UDub, XF UT, and TCB all the way through the MF'ing A wedge..
And great round man!!!
I have the Steelfiber fc115 in my TCBs and love them.
Have you checked your UPS tracking lately?
TheLutesMamba
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I was able to test the DG 120 X100 against the regular X100 today and the spin numbers were much better with the 120 X100. Officially narrowed down my search to DG 120 X100 or MMT 105TX. However, I can’t find anywhere to hit the MMT shafts. I think they’d be a good fit and they’re supposed to play similarly to the Dynamic Gold X100 shafts but hard to make such a purchase without testing the shafts. Looks-wise MMT wins all day every day but gotta figure out if I want to take the risk or not haha
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All the time @RealPretendPsychic
Heyo! I actually had the 125g in stiff.
My simple feedback/experience is they were like a nice feeling Dynamic Gold shaft. I'm not playing them anymore because I don't seem to get along with the Dynamic Gold profile in the longer irons. Dunno. My key issue with them is they were prob just a bit soft for my swing and preferences. I was moving the ball (i.e. curve) more than I prefer and the were a bit spinny for me. I would def be curious to try the 105X version for giggles.