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Golf course position...
Gerry Hogan's Theories On The Golf Swing vs Other
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Arlo
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If there is one reason Tiger reached the pinacle of 2nd best golfer of all time, it was his hands.
Who will ever forget those magical short game shots under pressure.
2008 US open, when he got down in two on 18 to beat Rocco at Torre Pines. The latter shots when he could barely stand with the damage left knee.
"You can play from the wrong position for a long time with good hands, but eventually it’s going to catch up with you.” – Tiger Woods
TxAggie2018
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The Tour pros are out there hitting more range balls every day than you or I probably do in a week. They're hitting a quarter-million golf shots a year, and they keep that pace up for like 30 years. Injuries are going to happen when you use your body that much.
Despite that, you don't really see the kind of repetitive or predictable injuries in golf like you do with say baseball pitchers and Tommy Johns. Guys will hurt their knees, backs and wrists because those are the parts that are moving, but it's not like baseball where the rotary swing targets one obscure tendon over and over.
Despite that, you don't really see the kind of repetitive or predictable injuries in golf like you do with say baseball pitchers and Tommy Johns. Guys will hurt their knees, backs and wrists because those are the parts that are moving, but it's not like baseball where the rotary swing targets one obscure tendon over and over.
I'm still over here trying to understand your point. Even if I took all these cherry-picked quotes completely out of context at face value, I still don't understand the point your trying to make about Tiger that relates to Gerry Hogan's theories being true.
Arlo
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Gerry Hogan simply put together facts. eg Newtons laws of motion and evidence provided by the great golf swings of the time.
Gerry profession was a cop and as such he was called upon to compile and present evidence in court of law every day of his working life. I can tell you absolutely that Gerry intended that his book would assist beginner golfers get off to a good start in golf, with much less confusion that what most of have found when we started in the game. His 45 minute DVD was for more advanced players.
Dont knock yourself out if you dont understand. No one could care less, so move on, start your own post.
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You're missing the context of that Tiger quote lol.
I wonder how many golfers Gerry Hogan and his wrong opinions have ruined.
Just goes to show that any hack who thinks he's figured it out can publish a book.
Just goes to show that any hack who thinks he's figured it out can publish a book.
Arlo
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Point to where you see your computor screen.
If you pointed to the screen, your WRONG. The light reflects off the screen to your eyes and your eyes transmit the light to your brain.
Now point to where you see your computor screen. Where you hear sound? where you feel the golf club ?
Everything you think you perceive as reality is your personal interpretation, my friend.
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Once again it’s clear this isn’t going to last long.
Arlo
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Sasho Mackenzie says golfers generate power , PULLING DOWN THEIR HANDS?
“Methods of training that increase the average force applied in the direction of the hand path during the downswing have the greatest probability in generating increases in clubhead speed....
What does this mean for the rest of us? Work on your lats, your shoulder muscles — and any other muscles that will help you pull down with more force."
Nothing new, but nice to have Sasho finally get on board(Newtons Laws and Kinematic sequence also)... PULLING....an about face from his previous studies...PUSHING.(Falkor et al)
golf.com
“Methods of training that increase the average force applied in the direction of the hand path during the downswing have the greatest probability in generating increases in clubhead speed....
What does this mean for the rest of us? Work on your lats, your shoulder muscles — and any other muscles that will help you pull down with more force."
Nothing new, but nice to have Sasho finally get on board(Newtons Laws and Kinematic sequence also)... PULLING....an about face from his previous studies...PUSHING.(Falkor et al)
New study reveals how golfers *really* generate their power
Are you on the hunt for more powerful drives? Well, Dr. Sasho Mackenzie has a new paper out that might be able to help golfers hit longer, better drives.
golf.com
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WILDTHING
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This is Gerry Hogan's theory expressed by Rick McCord.
But then he seems to contradict the above with this video below
If the hands are dictating what the body does (in reaction to the hands) , then the golfer must be taught what to do with the hands in fine detail.
So the next question is how do you want each hand to move during the whole golf swing .
1. How do you want each hand to grip the club
2. Where do you want each hand to be at address
3. What do you want each hand to do in the backswing
4. What do you want each hand to do in the downswing
Maybe Lane and Arlo can start on point 1 first and then we can ask questions.
PS. I've actually found the answer to point 1
"The importance of the grip has been vastly overrated in golfing lore. The grip doesn't contribute anything positive to the golf swing. All it does is to attach the club to the end of your arms. Nothing more. For reasons of mechanics, the more the grip allows your hands and wrists to approximate a single hinge, the better. Provided your grip provides this free hinge, it does not really matter how you hold the club."
Question: What does he mean free hinge ? Radial and ulnar deviation of both hands ? Or is the hinge that allows flexion and extension ? Or is it a mix of both? To be specific what does each hand have to hinge like?
Gerry Hogan's premise is that it is:
"possible to control the entire golf swing by controlling just a couple of key movements - specifically, of your hands and your head. All of the other parts of the golf swing will fall into place quite naturally without your even thinking about them."
"All the forces of the swing need to work in the same plane, the slot, and the principle of angular momentum."
Question: How do you gauge that all forces applied by the hands will work in the same plane and slot? What is the correct swing plane and how must the hands move so that the club moves on that correct swing plane?
GH also says:
" "you cannot generate power in the downswing."
Question : What does he mean by that statement above?
PS. I've been reading the Golfwrx thread back in 2013 and Jim Waldron is pretty scathing about Gerry's understanding about how the brain works.
And I quote:
" he is talking about the sensory system Feedback Loop - and like many armchair golf psuedo-scientists - is conflating it with the motor program or Feedforward circuit. Because of that conflation - which he is blissfully unaware of - no real discussion is possible. Feedback advocates who also neglect the motor circuit are legion in traditional golf teaching, and their track record in producing effective golf swings is beyond poor. Same holds true for teachers who only know about and advocate for the motor circuit exclusively. "
"Gerry is a salesman and an evangelical one at that, as is his "disciple" Lane. It is all about the "truth" of the golf cult. Evidence and real science play no role. Gerry is not brilliant - I had a run-in with him a few years ago on the ABS forum where he made a blatantly false statement - under the guise of supposedly "scientific facts" - about the transmission speed of the sensory nerves in the human body. His math was totally wrong - took me all of 3 seconds to see it and prove it, and he freaked out and had a hissy fit about my questioning of his "facts". He is all about Gerry and his "conclusions" from his years of tinkering with his own golf swing. Today the Web is full of self-proclaimed swing "experts" like Gerry, who literally make stuff up that "sounds good" to their own mind or that they think is happening or feel is happening when they hit a good golf shot. Hardly a method of teaching that is based in the real world of the lesson tee. Swing theory and swing coaching are worlds apart. "
But then he seems to contradict the above with this video below
If the hands are dictating what the body does (in reaction to the hands) , then the golfer must be taught what to do with the hands in fine detail.
So the next question is how do you want each hand to move during the whole golf swing .
1. How do you want each hand to grip the club
2. Where do you want each hand to be at address
3. What do you want each hand to do in the backswing
4. What do you want each hand to do in the downswing
Maybe Lane and Arlo can start on point 1 first and then we can ask questions.
PS. I've actually found the answer to point 1
"The importance of the grip has been vastly overrated in golfing lore. The grip doesn't contribute anything positive to the golf swing. All it does is to attach the club to the end of your arms. Nothing more. For reasons of mechanics, the more the grip allows your hands and wrists to approximate a single hinge, the better. Provided your grip provides this free hinge, it does not really matter how you hold the club."
Question: What does he mean free hinge ? Radial and ulnar deviation of both hands ? Or is the hinge that allows flexion and extension ? Or is it a mix of both? To be specific what does each hand have to hinge like?
Gerry Hogan's premise is that it is:
"possible to control the entire golf swing by controlling just a couple of key movements - specifically, of your hands and your head. All of the other parts of the golf swing will fall into place quite naturally without your even thinking about them."
"All the forces of the swing need to work in the same plane, the slot, and the principle of angular momentum."
Question: How do you gauge that all forces applied by the hands will work in the same plane and slot? What is the correct swing plane and how must the hands move so that the club moves on that correct swing plane?
GH also says:
" "you cannot generate power in the downswing."
Question : What does he mean by that statement above?
PS. I've been reading the Golfwrx thread back in 2013 and Jim Waldron is pretty scathing about Gerry's understanding about how the brain works.
And I quote:
" he is talking about the sensory system Feedback Loop - and like many armchair golf psuedo-scientists - is conflating it with the motor program or Feedforward circuit. Because of that conflation - which he is blissfully unaware of - no real discussion is possible. Feedback advocates who also neglect the motor circuit are legion in traditional golf teaching, and their track record in producing effective golf swings is beyond poor. Same holds true for teachers who only know about and advocate for the motor circuit exclusively. "
"Gerry is a salesman and an evangelical one at that, as is his "disciple" Lane. It is all about the "truth" of the golf cult. Evidence and real science play no role. Gerry is not brilliant - I had a run-in with him a few years ago on the ABS forum where he made a blatantly false statement - under the guise of supposedly "scientific facts" - about the transmission speed of the sensory nerves in the human body. His math was totally wrong - took me all of 3 seconds to see it and prove it, and he freaked out and had a hissy fit about my questioning of his "facts". He is all about Gerry and his "conclusions" from his years of tinkering with his own golf swing. Today the Web is full of self-proclaimed swing "experts" like Gerry, who literally make stuff up that "sounds good" to their own mind or that they think is happening or feel is happening when they hit a good golf shot. Hardly a method of teaching that is based in the real world of the lesson tee. Swing theory and swing coaching are worlds apart. "
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razaar
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Ouch!
Nothing like , on the stroke of New Year’s Eve , Stroke style debate continue….
New Years resolution- Not to pay attention to Gerry Hogan swing theory thread …. Damn , you know it’s going to go the way all resolutions do ……
New Years resolution- Not to pay attention to Gerry Hogan swing theory thread …. Damn , you know it’s going to go the way all resolutions do ……
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Luchnia
You will never conquer golf.
Worse thing is now that we have heard of him and his disciples, we wished we hadn't. Just more useless unusable chaff to clutter up things. What is worse is a 6 handicapper peddling it as if it is the best thing since sliced bread. Might have paid a bit more attention if he was closer to scratch - of course with the delivery, probably not.
Haha .. this thread is the proverbial train wreck for swing tips/theory.
Wildthing- please share with me / us how Gerry was wrong about * the transmission speed of the sensory nerves in the human body " and how you proved him wrong . I would like to know the correct answer.
Thanks
Your post certainly didn’t explain that very well.
As much as this thread hurts my head when I open it, I just can't help myself. I keep reading and reading for no logical reason! A lot of swing related threads have been like this lately. I think I'm seeing a common denominator...
I read that as dementor, but it pretty much works either way
Thanks my eyes are moist laughingI read that as dementor, but it pretty much works either way
Wildthing- FYI . Rick McCord was listed in 1991 as a top 50 instructor. A Golf Digest article listed him as one of the best in the USA. He and his partner, Dick Farley, at one time conducted 17 golf schools around the world.
He died too young a couple years ago. He was also a great ball striker - I can attest to that.
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