Golf Etiquette

[dietDrThunder]

A lost ball cannot simply be drop with a one stroke penalty. If it changes to that, there is no value to a provisional and that rule should be dropped.

Yes I agree 100%. I should have said that the provisional rule should be removed.

Also just to mention this again...I'm talking about non-competitive golf here. There's probably no good reason to change the rule for tournaments and such.

 

[thewitt]

Golf Etiquette

By the way, the failure for applying stroke and distance is a 2 stroke penalty.... So you can actually drop a ball, take a 2 stroke penalty, and play on under the rules today. Nothing needs to be changed in the rules. You can do this today instead of going back to the tee.

 

[dietDrThunder]

By the way, the failure for applying stroke and distance is a 2 stroke penalty.... So you can actually drop a ball, take a 2 stroke penalty, and play on under the rules today. Nothing needs to be changed in the rules. You can do this today instead of going back to the tee.

So that would be hit one, drop two, +2 penalty, then hit 5? If so, that's not something people (again, general rabble) will do.

 

[thewitt]

No. Hit one, lost ball, can't find it. Drop and add 2 strokes, play out the hole, hitting 4 from where you are - same as if you walked back to the tee, took 1 stroke, hit the ball to where you took your lost ball drop.

In match play you lose the hole, but in stroke play this drop would simply be a 2 stroke penalty for not proceeding under stroke and distance.

 

[dietDrThunder]

No. Hit one, lost ball, can't find it. Drop and add 2 strokes, play out the hole, hitting 4 from where you are - same as if you walked back to the tee, took 1 stroke, hit the ball to where you took your lost ball drop.

In match play you lose the hole, but in stroke play this drop would simply be a 2 stroke penalty for not proceeding under stroke and distance.

Oh that makes sense for sure. So maybe the emphasis should be on doing this, and not hitting provisionals/searching for 5 min etc. My only point here is that searching for 5 min, giving up, letting people through/going back to hit another etc. are not in any way contributing to the enjoyment of anyone on the course, whether you're waiting for these shenanigans, or the player torturing himself.

 

[thewitt]

No. Hit one, lost ball, can't find it. Drop and add 2 strokes, play out the hole, hitting 4 from where you are - same as if you walked back to the tee, took 1 stroke, hit the ball to where you took your lost ball drop.

In match play you lose the hole, but in stroke play this drop would simply be a 2 stroke penalty for not proceeding under stroke and distance.

I'm wrong here....

The decision for 27-1/3 shows this:

Ball Dropped in Area Where Original Ball Lost; Ball Then Played

Q.A player, unable to find his ball, drops another ball in the area where his original ball was lost and plays that ball. What is the ruling?

A.In match play, the player loses the hole – Rule 20-7b.

In stroke play, the player incurs the stroke-and-distance penalty prescribed by Rule 27-1 and an additional penalty of two strokes for a breach of that Rule. If the breach was a serious one, he must rectify the error as provided in the second paragraph of Rule 20-7c; otherwise, he is disqualified.

 

[dietDrThunder]

I'm wrong here....

The decision for 27-1/3 shows this:

Ball Dropped in Area Where Original Ball Lost; Ball Then Played

Q.A player, unable to find his ball, drops another ball in the area where his original ball was lost and plays that ball. What is the ruling?

A.In match play, the player loses the hole – Rule 20-7b.

In stroke play, the player incurs the stroke-and-distance penalty prescribed by Rule 27-1 and an additional penalty of two strokes for a breach of that Rule. If the breach was a serious one, he must rectify the error as provided in the second paragraph of Rule 20-7c; otherwise, he is disqualified.

Still...that does make sense for competition. Too harsh for recreational play IMO, as evidenced by the huge majority of people who do not follow this rule.

 

[thewitt]

Yeah. Without reading the decisions I would have allowed the 2 stroke penalty and continue...

 

[Canadan]

These should be printed up and given to every person playing a round by the starter at all golf courses.

my favorite is "It is a group's responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group."

It's remarkable how difficult that concept is, it seems.

Easy to suggest, rarely perfected at any course.

 

[deuce]

Still...that does make sense for competition. Too harsh for recreational play IMO, as evidenced by the huge majority of people who do not follow this rule.

With how crowded public courses get, asking the player to go back to the original spot and play another ball is ridiculous. As thewitt said, give them a two stroke penalty and drop as close to the suspected area of the lost ball and play from there.

Of course, this is going to make me more mindful of playing a provisional ball.

 

[rollin]

Still...that does make sense for competition. Too harsh for recreational play IMO, as evidenced by the huge majority of people who do not follow this rule.

I agree with your latest postings. Stroke and distance are just not necessary imo and I'll even say the same imo for competition as well. If they want to add something extra for a lost ball than just add a second stroke and be done with it. One can even argue why should losing a ball in a pond/lake water hazard be any different than losing one in the woods/weeeds anyway? Why would one warrent "stroke n distance" while the other only "drop n stroke?" Especially if just lost under a leaf ro in thick rough along side the fairway makes the argument even stronger. But If we took two identical holes and one had a lake on the left but the other had woods on the left and both identical tee shots were hit and hooked/drew to the same identical spot. One goes in the water while the other in the woods. We can take a drop where we think the ball crossed the water line but yet cant take the same drop where we think it crossed the wooded line? Why should that be "stroke and distance" vs the "drop and stroke" it is for the water hole? Why the extra penalty? Its the same thing imo. Both same shots, in same area, both lost balls, only difference is one is in water and the other in the woods. Matter of fact we have a chance at finding the ball in the woods and no chance in the water so if you ask me thats even worse. Just makes no sense to me.

I can somewhat see for an OOB that they may want to add an extra penalty (such as stroke "and" distance) for a harsher penalty but I cant see it because a ball went into the woods vs a body of water. And while i can even argue the penalty for OOB being wrong imo as well I'll just conceed that one but will say why not just allow a choice of "drop and 2 stroke" or "stroke and distance."

But in any case with any of this I still go back to 5 minutes to look for balls being far too much for reasons indicated earlier.

 

[rollin]

Of course, this is going to make me more mindful of playing a provisional ball.

There is a problem with provisional balls though. And that is this. For the millions of average person weekend hackers and even mor avid mid/high to higher cap players its just not theat simple because when struggling has a good chance of simply dioing it again or over compensating and going the other way. Now you end up with two lost balls to look for and just may be on oposite sides of the hole which compunds the whole problem. But point being that provisionals can work well for a more consistant player and certainly a good player and even for a weekend hacker that is having (except for this one shot) a very good tee day. But that is not usually the case for the average hacker within the masses crowding the courses on the weekends. All too often will simply just be another ball to look for. Without even debating whether stroke n distance be justifiable or not the unwritten "Drop n 2stroke" in lieu of that "stroke n distance" just plays out better for all concerned.

 

[ArmyGolf]

Many of the courses around here combat this by simply placing red stakes at all the OB. I guess it makes the course easier, but if it speeds up play count me in. I don't know how many times I've hit a provisional, walked up to where the first one trickled out, and found it next to a red stake instead of a white.

 

[captaincaution]

Many of the courses around here combat this by simply placing red stakes at all the OB. I guess it makes the course easier, but if it speeds up play count me in. I don't know how many times I've hit a provisional, walked up to where the first one trickled out, and found it next to a red stake instead of a white.

One of the courses we played in California did this. They also had drop areas past the carries off of the tee. This definitely kept our pace up.

 

[rollin]

Many of the courses around here combat this by simply placing red stakes at all the OB. I guess it makes the course easier, but if it speeds up play count me in. I don't know how many times I've hit a provisional, walked up to where the first one trickled out, and found it next to a red stake instead of a white.

i dont think I'd say easier but perhaps simply just say more practical.

 

[thewitt]

The jungle is typically red staked here as well

 

[Badmeat]

I play often on weekday evenings, after work by myself. It absolutely gets on my nerves when I'm stuck behind a group for multiple holes that will not allow me to play through.

 

[rollin]

I play often on weekday evenings, after work by myself. It absolutely gets on my nerves when I'm stuck behind a group for multiple holes that will not allow me to play through.

since you are alone that tells me the course is probably not corwded so why not just skip

 

[ddelloch]

There is a problem with provisional balls though. And that is this. For the millions of average person weekend hackers and even mor avid mid/high to higher cap players its just not theat simple because when struggling has a good chance of simply dioing it again or over compensating and going the other way. Now you end up with two lost balls to look for and just may be on oposite sides of the hole which compunds the whole problem. But point being that provisionals can work well for a more consistant player and certainly a good player and even for a weekend hacker that is having (except for this one shot) a very good tee day. But that is not usually the case for the average hacker within the masses crowding the courses on the weekends. All too often will simply just be another ball to look for. Without even debating whether stroke n distance be justifiable or not the unwritten "Drop n 2stroke" in lieu of that "stroke n distance" just plays out better for all concerned.

Agree with pretty much all of your points.

I play with guys that might hit 1 fairway all day some days, the first problem with that is, if they had to retee every shot they would probably hit 2/3 of them to the same spot again and quit golf shortly afterwards. The second problem is, its going to ad 10-15 mins to every hole while they have to walk all over the place trying to find their 4 provisionals.

I always * my score cards where I take a drop on white stakes and a lost ball just so I know what my score actually was. If the muni courses all put a "2 stroke penalty and drop nearest" in their local rules, I think it would benefit everyone. The scores would get a little more realistic and the pace would pick up. It also might improve some people's games who play grip it and rip it and take a bogus 1 stroke penalty and march 300 yards up the fairway every hole.

 

[sposey013168]

And wahts worse about ball marks, is if someone does "fix" their mark but does not know the proper way to do it, its actually worse.
The superintendent at my course said he would rather someone not fix it if they do not know the proper way to fix one.
I think it should be a test on proper way to fix a ball mark before people tee off

Ball marks are my pet peave, and 4/10 people repair them properly, or at all. I'm amazed to see all the ones people just leave there. I myself am proud when I fix my ball mark ,lol.

 

[thewitt]

I always * my score cards where I take a drop on white stakes and a lost ball just so I know what my score actually was. If the muni courses all put a "2 stroke penalty and drop nearest" in their local rules, I think it would benefit everyone. The scores would get a little more realistic and the pace would pick up. It also might improve some people's games who play grip it and rip it and take a bogus 1 stroke penalty and march 300 yards up the fairway every hole.

Your local rule is not legal. A Rule of Golf may not be waived with local rules, and there is no such thing as a drop at white stakes with a 2 stroke penalty....

 

[rollin]

Your local rule is not legal. A Rule of Golf may not be waived with local rules, and there is no such thing as a drop at white stakes with a 2 stroke penalty....

This is why bifurcation of rules for amateur play should imo be allowed. and actually many would even argue is necessary. The USGA should not be advocating for making golf more attractive to the general public and also advocate for pace of amateur golf and yet at the same time have rules that work against both. Just to name a few - 5minutes looking for a ball is too time consuming. Stroke and distance rule and hitting provisional are both not practical for the average hacker. Forcing people to hit from divots is time consuming when too many hackers will hit poor shots.

Allow 2 minutes for ball search,
allow a "drop n 2stroke" in lieu of "stroke and distance" and also in lieu of hitting provisional. Many would even argue to make it "drop n 1stroke."
allow relief from a divot

There are probably more but just three things that will help pace and also make the game a bit more practical to play. Even if just only a tad, its just a tad easier, a tad faster, at tad more practical, and those things all add up to help making it a tad more attractive.

 

[blugold]

Your local rule is not legal. A Rule of Golf may not be waived with local rules, and there is no such thing as a drop at white stakes with a 2 stroke penalty....

To be fair, the course can make any rule change it wants. The players of that course just can't use those scores for handicap

 

[Harvmp28]

Your local rule is not legal. A Rule of Golf may not be waived with local rules, and there is no such thing as a drop at white stakes with a 2 stroke penalty....

A local course I play most Winters (cheap winter pass from Nov.-Apr.)if there is no snow on the ground has a local rule. The rule is written right on the scorecard. Hole 10 Par 5 has a creek running through the fairway, if the ball goes in the creek off the tee its a free drop on the side of the creek nearer the hole, if you hit it in the creek on your second shot it is treated as a hazard. Just an example of a course with a local rule specific to a hole.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[rollin]

A local course I play most Winters (cheap winter pass from Nov.-Apr.)if there is no snow on the ground has a local rule. The rule is written right on the scorecard. Hole 10 Par 5 has a creek running through the fairway, if the ball goes in the creek off the tee its a free drop on the side of the creek nearer the hole, if you hit it in the creek on your second shot it is treated as a hazard. Just an example of a course with a local rule specific to a hole.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Not sure I understand.
Is that a free drop as in no penalty stroke?

if not then I'm not really sure I see where it helps anything. Basically you would be able to drop just prior to the creek anyway no? All they are really doing is allow the drop after instead of before. Now, if its no penalty stroke and you can also drop it after the creek that is a bit much to let slide by imo. Perhaps you can explain further for me.