Mark Crossfield or TaylorMade: Who do you side with?

[emart2173]

I enjoy golf talk just as much as everyone else. What I don't enjoy is someone posting a YouTube review and nothing else. No discussion, no follow up. Instead everytime I see a post that says:

"Hey Sheils /MC posted a review of the club" and that's it. The threads are for discussion. If I wanted to see their vlogs or reviews, I'd head to their site and comment there.


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I get what you are saying but nothing stops someone from starting the conversation based on the video, IMO people just discredit them because they are teaching pros and therefore don't care to comment or something.

I don't find any fault with it. Heck I read a lot of reviews on clubs, even ones that we've written about. Just yesterday I listened to Golf Unfiltered with Matt from Plugged in Golf. I check their stuff out quite frequently because I enjoy what they have over their in terms of writing and pure number of reviews. I check out Crossfield and Shiels every now and then because I also use YouTube as a search engine. What I do find a bit annoying is in a THP review thread, when the thread is young, instantly one of those videos pops up. It's fine, I just think its a way to drag attention from the review that is being done here(if that makes any sense whatsoever). At the end of the day we all have our different audiences, and ways or reaching those people. But I like conversations based on equipment and technology, and I think those can help further a conversation, but they can also tend to just kill it in a way too. Anyway back the main event MC vs TM.

I agree with posting in THP review thread in the early stages is a bit annoying as the conversation could get away from the review and onto the info/thoughts from the video. There's lots of great resources and differing opinions out on the webz and like for many things I enjoy seeing, reading, hearing different perspectives. Like many subjects the way one perpsn communicates a thought may not sink in with someone but a similar thought expressed in a different way does...same could be for how the tech works or is supposed to work, etc with usin different reviews.

 

[ArmyGolf]

Mark's message for the last couple years is the same and steady, and those who say it is growing tiresome aren't wrong at all. My personal issue is that I agree with his message on many levels while not always enjoying his delivery.

I personally have mad respect for anyone who posts up club data and ball data in a video review. It's all there. There's no hidden messages or manufacturing a specific narrative when you are putting up all the data, the viewer just has to take the time to digest the data.

He takes hard aim at marketing claims and puts them to the test. I'd honestly be doing the same thing if I had full time access to a GCQuad. If he doesn't see what the marketing says he should see he has every right to say it's rubbish, for him. The result is that he spends a lot of time telling people "their girlfriend" is nothing special and creates enemies by doing so.

 

[ProZoneGolf]

Have to be TM. Mark could NOT possibly say TM is better or great...without backlash

 

[Mark_UK]

Mark Crossfield or TaylorMade: Who do you side with?

I once asked a question after watching one of his videos and basically got told I didn't understand what he was saying, but even when then asking for clarification he decided to get aggressive about it

I tend not watch his or anybody else’s reviews. I couldn’t care less what anyone else thinks of a club, if it works for me, I’m using it. That in fairness does always seem his point though, get fit and see what works for you.
I do agree though, sometimes, especially with his instruction, he talks in riddles and rhymes and if you don’t get his point, tough! I used to watch his stuff when I had a lot of down time in a previous job, but it’s rare I watch his stuff these days.

Plus, anyone who thinks Titleist were wasting their money signing him, well this topic on him has produced 11 pages so far.


#FiberLaunch

 

[TheDoctor]

I tend not watch his or anybody else’s reviews. I couldn’t care less what anyone else thinks of a club, if it works for me, I’m using it. That in fairness does always seem his point though, get fit and see what works for you.
I do agree though, sometimes, especially with his instruction, he talks in riddles and rhymes and if you don’t get his point, tough! I used to watch his stuff when I had a lot of down time in a previous job, but it’s rare I watch his stuff these days.

Plus, anyone who thinks Titleist were wasting their money signing him, well this topic on him has produced 11 pages so far.

#FiberLaunch

My question wasn't because I didn't get the point, it was asking for him to explain some of his process as to how he got the results he did, but when he got aggresive I decided not to waste my time trying to have a civil conversation about it

 

[TYork]

Im mostly indifferent here as I can see both sides. But if I had to choose one I would pick TM's side. Its their choice to where and who they send equipment.

The real question here is how does Titleist feel? They are offering more than just gear.

 

[moosejaa]

I don't blame TM at all and I'd be just as concerned about taking any reviews he does on Titleist equipment seriously.
There's no way he's gonna say anything negative about any of their stuff now.

 

[Scrap Iron]

I don't blame TM at all and I'd be just as concerned about taking any reviews he does on Titleist equipment seriously.
There's no way he's gonna say anything negative about any of their stuff now.

I haven’t watched him in a while does he actually say anything negative about any club other than looks?

 

[fupresti]

I don't blame TM at all and I'd be just as concerned about taking any reviews he does on Titleist equipment seriously.
There's no way he's gonna say anything negative about any of their stuff now.

It's the same reason why Breed gets taken to task about his comments on rolling the ball back, regardless of how well reasoned his argument is he's considered a shill for Titleist.

 

[fupresti]

I haven’t watched him in a while does he actually say anything negative about any club other than looks?

Basically he spends 10 minutes mocking whatever the selling point is marketing wise, hits a few times and says something along the lines of "is it working, I dont know"

 

[moosejaa]

I haven’t watched him in a while does he actually say anything negative about any club other than looks?

I haven't watched him in awhile either and you're right, he usually focuses on positives from what I remember. Last thing I watched was him doing some on course reviews between a couple drivers. That was really interesting.

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[Wonton]

I've never heard him bad mouth a club. He usually says, "yeah it performs, these are my numbers so go test it, and get fitted, blah blah".
He questions the gimmicks of turbulators, speed steps, that stupid thing TM did with the Aeroburners... the fin? etc, etc, etc.
He does crap on marketing strategies of some companies but what does he expect? Some companies will aggressively market themselves than others so he pooping on companies for that is petty as well.

 

[mjkladis]

So if we are so worried about MC receiving free equipment from Titleist, should we also be weary about reviews on the forums from the guys who went to Shaft Up events or the Grandaddy events?
Should I completely discredit someone's thoughts behind a product because they could maybe be more partial to UST Mamiya or Callaway?
I don't think that's right.

BTW Mark has already said he doesn't care about getting the clubs for free.
He doesn't like that TM wants to control the message (basically say what we want you to say or we walk).
This has been going on before his signing with Titleist!

It's TM's choice to do that but I think it's a stupid idea and it makes me wonder if they are trying to hide something.

 

[MWard]

MC monetizes from his reviews. THP’ers do not.

 

[McLovin]

Great, all we need now is TM to not send the new stuff to Sheils and we might actually have a THP review thread with staff review and comments by thpers instead of links to YouTube review by Sheils and MC, etc... right after the staff reviews.


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drives me crazy!

 

[Bucketsofjoy]

There are many different angles to view this, and while its been an entertaining discussion to follow at its heart is still this simple truth - this is a grown man who is complaining that he didn't get a free driver.

I love watching the golf YouTubers, and I do think that their part of the industry will continue to expand throughout the coming years which will only bring about more sponsorship deals and situations like this. Would you expect Rick Sheils to give us a rundown of the new Puma golf shoes? Not really. (and thats perfectly fine).

In my opinion, Crossfield doesn't really contribute a lot to the club review space, which in fairness TaylorMade is still participating in with other reviewers. Also in my opinion, I think Titleist is actually ahead of the curve with this signing. Brilliant move. Hopefully he thought about the potential downsides before he signed, but I'm thinking he didn't.

Genuine question - do you think its cheaper for them to turn Crossfield into a Titleist billboard than it is for them to buy enough ads on YouTube to reach the same size audience? It reminds me of the product placement scenes from Truman Show for some reason.

 

[McLovin]

i'm curious: do people really think mark crossfield wants or even needs free equipment?

 

[Bucketsofjoy]

i'm curious: do people really think mark crossfield wants or even needs free equipment?

He pretty clearly wants it from TaylorMade.

If it were really about bringing his take on the M3 and M4 to his viewing audience he'd just borrow one, do the review, and no one would care or notice.

 

[ASN21]

i'm curious: do people really think mark crossfield wants or even needs free equipment?

Well obviously he wants it since he has been crying the past few days!

 

[McLovin]

He pretty clearly wants it from TaylorMade.

If it were really about bringing his take on the M3 and M4 to his viewing audience he'd just borrow one, do the review, and no one would care or notice.

see, i don't think he cares about the club. i think he cares about the ability to do the reviewer and garner clicks. i agree there are very easy workarounds.

 

[McLovin]

Well obviously he wants it since he has been crying the past few days!

it seems like people in this thread think he is butthurt because he isn't getting free gear. i don't think he needs or even wants free gear. i think he needs and wants revenue from his reviews, and tm is cutting into his ability to make money. i agree with @bucketsofjoy that there are very simple solutions.

 

[golfunfiltered]

Here's the thing about freelancing: you have to answer to everybody and play by their rules. If you don't, then the company will just move down the line of others looking to review a free club.

I've done many club reviews on my site. We've hosted many companies on our podcast. The ability to speak to basically anyone in the equipment industry at any time took a lot of hard work, networking, and playing nice in the sandbox. Guys like Crossfield, Rick Shiels, Peter Finch, and Me and My Golf had to do the same thing at one point (even though they had more initial access being teaching pros).

To the best of my knowledge, each of those guys play a preferred brand. It's only natural. However, OEMs have the discretion of sending stuff or not. Totally up to them, and that's a measured PR risk that most are willing to take. There's no shortage of people requesting free golf equipment.

 

[Nicegy525]

I thought I read somewhere that TM made this decision BEFORE MC signed with Titleist. If that's true then I question TM's true motive other than the current stated or implied reasons...

TM may have had a legitimate reason to not send MC clubs, but when the Titleist deal came out, MC went with that to generate some limelight.

This is not the first time a manufacturer refused to send free clubs to a big reviewer. I remember watching a Rick Shiels video where he casually mentioned the fact that he had to go and buy the club he was reviewing. Didnt make a stink about it, just played it very professionally.

I certainly appreciate Rick's more professional approach to things vs. Mark's tendency to exaggerate to create attention...

 

[Bucketsofjoy]

see, i don't think he cares about the club. i think he cares about the ability to do the reviewer and garner clicks. i agree there are very easy workarounds.

It is definitely about getting the clicks, thats for sure. Club reviewers have overcome participation refusals from a variety of manufacturers (ironically I hear Titleist come up a lot in these instances) and still set out with the goal of reviewing the club in an honest manor.

Lets say he gets an M3 and M4 and puts out a legitimate review. Whatever he says about them, positive or negative, there will be reason to doubt its credibility because of the situation he has created with his overreaction. Too nice about it will yield comments of "oh he's just trying to make sure he keeps getting those free clubs," too negative and you get "He's just mad they didn't send him a free club." Too vanilla and its bad for his clicks. Oh, and that is all without acknowledging Titleist waiting in the corner.

I don't think he cares about the review, I just think he cares about making sure he can still make waves by throwing his weight around. That kind of makes me wonder about the rest of his reviews.

The Titleist signing is still a good move, and TM's refusal is still perfectly reasonable. Looking at this rationally could not produce the kind of reaction he has had.

 

[kevin81002]

I got through 3 or 4 minutes of that video and decided "This guy talks too much" and turned it off. Is that really an 18 minute video of him saying the same thing over and over again?