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Relief from Divot Rule?

No relief outside fairways like lift, clean, and place. Any grass growing back, no relief. Make it more an honor system/consulting with playing partners. In the northern parts where divots are replaced rather than filled at some courses, free relief from these pelts.

Free relief from footprints in sand and unraked bunkers. There are a couple places that still haven't replaced rakes. During Covid some courses up here allowed you to place outside of the footprint or divot but still in the bunker, while others had a local rule to drop outside of the bunker no closer to the hole. I don't know about free relief from a bunker, but I do like the idea of avoiding footprints, etc. Without sounding too revolutionary, I would be in favor of moving a ball on the green by one ball length if some idiot's ball mark has not been repaired and would impede your ball. We got rid of the stymie so why not?
 
mancest said:
This is it exactly. Unfortunately it is a rub of the green situation.
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Unfortunately, this is correct. As much as I hate hitting a perfect drive and ending up in a divot you'd have players arguing about every little variation in the fairway. I attended a Colorado GA Rules Seminar after the new rules came out and this subject was brought up. The USGA basically decided defining and enforcing a divot rule was untennable because of all the factors involved with an actual definition of what was acceptable and not in that situation.
 
Wakit300 said:
Unfortunately, this is correct. As much as I hate hitting a perfect drive and ending up in a divot you'd have players arguing about every little variation in the fairway. I attended a Colorado GA Rules Seminar after the new rules came out and this subject was brought up. The USGA basically decided defining and enforcing a divot rule was untennable because of all the factors involved with an actual definition of what was acceptable and not in that situation.
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yeah. Sadly this is the answer. Though it needed be if people would just not try to always take advantage of situations.
 
Wakit300 said:
Unfortunately, this is correct. As much as I hate hitting a perfect drive and ending up in a divot you'd have players arguing about every little variation in the fairway. I attended a Colorado GA Rules Seminar after the new rules came out and this subject was brought up. The USGA basically decided defining and enforcing a divot rule was untennable because of all the factors involved with an actual definition of what was acceptable and not in that situation.
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Really, a lot of this is an evil of standardization IMO. There should be a way wider range of local rules that can be put in place from course to course that recognize differing conditions. The USGA could work these in to their course/slope ratings if they are worried about it.

A divot is a way bigger deal with an irrigated fairway on a modern target golf design at a resort where people are crappy about fixing divots than it is on a older firm native grass layout that invites run-up shots. Having a "relief from wear and tear" rule would be pretty simple on the former.

A bunker rake and place rule makes more sense on a public course with a clientele unlikely to rake than it does on a private course.

A roll it over type rule makes sense on a course that does almost no maintenance other than the greens.

On the sand greens that were common way back when it was necessary to smooth a line from ball to cup, so it isn't like this sort of thing is new.

and so on...
 
I recently played in a tournament that had a local rule of divots in the fairway and unraked bunker footprints were allowed relief on the discretion of the playing partners. Great way to do it!
 
Wakit300 said:
Unfortunately, this is correct. As much as I hate hitting a perfect drive and ending up in a divot you'd have players arguing about every little variation in the fairway. I attended a Colorado GA Rules Seminar after the new rules came out and this subject was brought up. The USGA basically decided defining and enforcing a divot rule was untennable because of all the factors involved with an actual definition of what was acceptable and not in that situation.
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templeton80 said:
yeah. Sadly this is the answer. Though it needed be if people would just not try to always take advantage of situations.
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Is it so different from having to define a pitch mark on a green prior to the rule change?

There will always be variables that have to be defined on the golf course if following the rulebook completely (which I'd argue less than 1% of golfers do). Calling it 'untenable' is a cop out to me, considering how many others are like that.
 
MattyD-MPLS said:
I recently played in a tournament that had a local rule of divots in the fairway and unraked bunker footprints were allowed relief on the discretion of the playing partners. Great way to do it!
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I bet it was total anarchy, and fisticuffs were had.


.....no? weird
 
Canadan said:
I bet it was total anarchy, and fisticuffs were had.


.....no? weird
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Everyone was very excited to hear that. It happened to me where my ball was in a massive divot that the ball was hard to see driving up to it.
 
MattyD-MPLS said:
Everyone was very excited to hear that. It happened to me where my ball was in a massive divot that the ball was hard to see driving up to it.
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Dude, I bet it felt AMAZING to pull it out of there hahaha
 
Canadan said:
Is it so different from having to define a pitch mark on a green prior to the rule change?

There will always be variables that have to be defined on the golf course if following the rulebook completely (which I'd argue less than 1% of golfers do). Calling it 'untenable' is a cop out to me, considering how many others are like that.
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no it absolutely isn’t. But at the same time, I can see it being incredibly difficult to manage because of turfs conditions etc. I agree it shouldn’t be hard..
 
Canadan said:
Dude, I bet it felt AMAZING to pull it out of there hahaha
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It definitely did. I piped a drive and was so relieved to take it out.
 
Canadan said:
Is it so different from having to define a pitch mark on a green prior to the rule change?

There will always be variables that have to be defined on the golf course if following the rulebook completely (which I'd argue less than 1% of golfers do). Calling it 'untenable' is a cop out to me, considering how many others are like that.
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Canadan - not my language, that's what the USGA thinks and we can currently see where their heads are ... :sneaky:
 
due to that thing that causes everything these days COVID - one of my courses no longer has sand fill bottles so our fairways seem like they are 30% divots specially in the common landing areas.. here is an example - for you guys think it is the rub of the green and no relief rule is needed -- I would love to play you in match play at my course and have you land in one of these after you have struck it well down the middle.:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
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CorvetteGuy said:
due to that thing that causes everything these days COVID - one of my courses no longer has sand fill bottles so our fairways seem like they are 30% divots specially in the common landing areas.. here is an example - for you guys think it is the rub of the green and no relief rule is needed -- I would love to play you in match play at my course and have you land in one of these after you have struck it well down the middle.:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
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That’s a nasty one. I somehow had this lie after bombing one down the middle of the fairways on the 2nd hole at my old club. It’s not in a divot but a difficult lie nonetheless .:LOL:

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tahoebum said:
That’s a nasty one. I somehow had this lie after bombing one down the middle of the fairways on the 2nd hole at my old club. It’s not in a divot but a difficult lie nonetheless .:LOL:

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A player should never have to take an unplayable lie whilst being in the fairway.. the pros don't - why should we.??(y):unsure:(y):unsure:
 
I think it would be OK to just take a free drop out of any kind of divot in the fairway.
 
Wakit300 said:
Unfortunately, this is correct. As much as I hate hitting a perfect drive and ending up in a divot you'd have players arguing about every little variation in the fairway. I attended a Colorado GA Rules Seminar after the new rules came out and this subject was brought up. The USGA basically decided defining and enforcing a divot rule was untennable because of all the factors involved with an actual definition of what was acceptable and not in that situation.
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That's the USGA overthinking and making it more complicated than it has to be, as usual. If the lie isn't the same as the original design of the fairway and/or the fairway surrounding it, you get relief. That eliminates all the debate over the severity/individual characteristics of the condition under consideration. Doesn't matter if it's a full-on trench, a divot that has been sanded/replaced, a divot where the grass has partially grown back, etc. Everybody gets the same relief, so it's simple to apply across the board.

We're allowed relief from the hole/cast of a burrowing animal - does that require a zoological study to ensure that the animal which dug the hole is actually classified as a "burrowing animal"?

Maybe the stuffed shirts at the USGA need to get out and play more public courses, where conditions aren't as pristine as the hallowed shrines they're accustomed to playing, or that the Tour pros play on. Come play some courses where the fairways look like bombing impact areas, the bunkers look like an infantry platoon marched through them (or have harder surfaces than the cart paths), and the greens are full of irregularities from unrepaired ball marks and slobs dragging their feet all over them. They're completely out of touch with the game that 99.99% of us play, they're fixated on PGA Tour pros and elite country club golfers.
 
The previous golfer dug up grass. The way you have to get out of that is to take loft and really compress the ball which means digging a trench for the next person to end up in. If you don't have sand on your cart to fill it, the fairway is now in worse condition.

@Snowman has the right idea. Everyone gets the same relief.

And apparently burrowing animals do require a zoological study because ants don't qualify. Only "fire ants" qualify as a dangerous condition. There are some courses in the PNW that have these in the wooded areas. I defy anyone to stand on one and hit their ball should it have come to rest there. They aren't like fire ants, granted, but still you wouldn't want to have ants in your pants.

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The bunkers at most courses are packed sand with maybe a very thin layer of loose sand over the top. If it has rained, they're like concrete. Or they could just be packed sand. Bunker technique has to be totally different than what you're taught. Basically in these conditions, if you have a high lipped bunker and can hit a chip shot with a 64 wedge you're golden. Sometimes, you want to catch the ball first.
 
Woke up to this email from club pro.

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I can go either way on this one. I am not a fan of "divot" rules. I think if you're gonna do that then just go lift , clean and place all the time in the fairway. Just go that extra mile ....Because i'd rather hit out of 90% of divots i see than have a clump of mud on my ball.

So, just do LCP in the fairway all the time.

Or, nothing.

All or nothing for me. As others have pointed out in things like club championships or am tournaments, there are going to be discussions about what a divot is on every hole. I play in these events and already there's 3-4 times a round where we all have to gather and talk about whether a burrowing animal is nearby
 
It sure would be nice if folks picked up the pelt and replaced it or learned how a rake works.

While waiting for others to putt, I fix ball marks. After skulling a ball out of ten footprints in a bunker I rake it. While walking down the fairway I pick up fresh pelts and place them in the next excavation I find.
 
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