Stock Market & Retirement Planning

So I saw this article that said you should have double your salary saved by the time you're 35, triple by like 40 or 45 etc.. not taking into account my wife's salary, as she'll have a pension, I don't even have my own 1x salary in my TIAA.

Now that we have refinanced and my student loans are done, i kicked up my 401k contribution a point (still only 8%, but after annual raise will go to 10%)

Does anyone else find this unattainable, or at least very difficult?

Rules of thumbs are good for starting points and antacid sales. Much of what follows is not novel.

I think it's more effective to build a model of your income requirements (What do I want to do in retirement? What will those expenses be - how much will I need?) rather than make a rough estimate based on pre-retirement income. To produce that much income staring in year X, how much do I need to save starting now? Can I save more and retire sooner, or can I work longer, realizing that many people do not get to choose their retirement dates? I know some people who are very comfortable living on 40% of their pre-retirement income, and others who are freaking out because they feel 120% of pre-retirement income isn't enough. Both groups are right for them. I might add this approach was critical in my wife's decision to retire when she wanted to.

Be sure to acount for the value of a pension if you a trying to figure out how much you've accumulated for retirement.. I take my wife's pension, multiply that by 25 (4% withdrawal rate) and tell her that's how much we would have to have invested to generate that much income in retirement. For example, a $20k pension is like having $500k in a retirement account, because it would throw off about $20k. One concern about pensions is the stability and security of your pension plan(s).

In March, 2009, I had 0.33x of my salary in my retirement accounts, and I was 53. Today, I have 4.7x of my [much bigger] salary and with my wife's pension and two small ones I accumulated, we will be good in retirement. I basically maxed out my contributions in a high proportion (80-90)%) of low cost index equity funds in my 401(k) and rolled them to my IRA so that I had a lot more choices and eventually management by my advisor. But it was a decade of belt tightening and we still have some work to do on the balance sheet: until a few years ago, I prioritized building my retirement accounts over retiring debt. Now I've reversed those priorities. Had I started getting serious when I was 40, there is no doubt I'd be retired today with more money than I have today. I would also tell 40 year old me to hire a good advisor. He has more than earned his fee, from savings, guidance, and growth. Not to mention less effort and stress on my part.

Time is your friend if you are under 40. You are doing the right thing by boosting your savings rate to get to the max allowable contribution as soon as you can. You won't miss it doing it the way you are doing it.

One minor point I've made before and will repeat here: if you are making the max contribution in a year AND your company matches a portion of your contribution, time your contribution so that you hit your max in the last pay period of the year. This not only maximizes dollar cost averaging, but also ensures your company will be matching the most dollars possible. Here's an easy math extreme example:

You make $130k.yr, paid bi weekly - $5k/paycheck
Company matches first 5% you contribute - $300/pay
Your max allowable contribution is $26,000/yr

If you contribute $1,000/pay, you max out in 26 pay periods. Company matches $300 x 26 pay periods = $7.800 total company match

If you contribute $2,000/pay, you max out in 13 pay periods. Company matches $300 x 13 pay periods = $3,900 total company match
 
Another thing that many young people don't understand is the power of saving early and consistently. If a married couple both make $75k a year each, starts saving 15% at age 30, here's what it looks like at age 67. Some of that monthly savings is likely to come form an employer match so the actual amount they have to save from their monthly earnings might only be 10%. This also assumes their salary never goes up when often it doubles or triples by the time you are age 50.

I'm trying to pound it into our college age kids heads right now. We made our 20 year old daughter save 25% of her internship money this summer into a retirement account so she made a $2,500 contribution and we matched it. That $5,000 investment will be worth $427,000 by the time she is age 67 even if she never contributes another dime.

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Where did you get that worksheet? Pretty dang cool!
 
Where did you get that worksheet? Pretty dang cool!

Here you go.

 
I was banned for 3 weeks or so. What did I miss?
 
Another thing that many young people don't understand is the power of saving early and consistently. If a married couple both make $75k a year each, starts saving 15% at age 30, here's what it looks like at age 67. Some of that monthly savings is likely to come form an employer match so the actual amount they have to save from their monthly earnings might only be 10%. This also assumes their salary never goes up when often it doubles or triples by the time you are age 50.

I'm trying to pound it into our college age kids heads right now. We made our 20 year old daughter save 25% of her internship money this summer into a retirement account so she made a $2,500 contribution and we matched it. That $5,000 investment will be worth $427,000 by the time she is age 67 even if she never contributes another dime.

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What is the buying power of that amount in today's dollars? Assuming 3% inflation.
 
What is the buying power of that amount in today's dollars? Assuming 3% inflation.

Doing the math in my head using the rule of 72, at 3% an investment would double every 24 years so roughly one fourth what it's worth today. That $427k in 48 years buys you what $107k buys you today. If you don't know what the rule of 72 is, look it up. My dad taught it to me as a kid and all of my kids knew it by the age of 10.
 
Doing the math in my head using the rule of 72, at 3% an investment would double every 24 years so roughly one fourth what it's worth today. That $427k in 48 years buys you what $107k buys you today. If you don't know what the rule of 72 is, look it up. My dad taught it to me as a kid and all of my kids knew it by the age of 10.
Yup. I know the rule of 72 and every person should also know how it works. I got rich by using it as a quick calculator.
 
Ultra conservative investor at this point. But pension income, social security, etc, matches what we were bringing home.Made it our first year of retirement without needing to draw from retirement investments so feeling pretty good. We invested in mostly market based funds during work years, and received options in several companies. long term plan is home ownership should fund any nursing home costs. So feeling years of saving were worth it.

My feeling on how much you need to save? Be willing to compromise for what is important. If golf is your retirement goal, then:
1. got millions move to Hawaii or other resort area.
2. got a couple of million - Arizona or Myrtle Beach, etc.
6. Didn't do so well? Move to small town with cheap housing and play at the local muni.
 
The rule of thumb is save all the money that one of the partners make and live off the other. Within no time you will have millions.
 
The YTD performance of the FAANG stocks has been impressive considering when Covid hit us many like me did not see record stock prices before Christmas.

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The YTD performance of the FAANG stocks has been impressive considering when Covid hit us many like me did not see record stock prices before Christmas.

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Not a single one of those stocks made you leave the house : )
 
My buddy talked me into buying NIO, china's version of Tesla basically. Has jumped since inception but hovering around my purchase price lately. Hopeing for a nice gain there as China passed laws to require a certain # of EVs in the next x years

Picking up skme AMC as well, just a couple dozen at < 2.50, maybe a nice bounce back after the vaccine. A year ago was at 7/s, 2 years was 20/s
 
Anyone use Stash or investment apps? I'm just getting into investing and have put a little in but I'm not very diverse.
 
So I've been meaning to buy into Tesla but forgot to pull the trigger, kicking myself that its now at 875.

In my shoes, would you sell off 13 shares of apple (i have 57 total) to buy 2 Tesla, or just buy 1 outright and keep the apple?
 
With it's crazy run the last year and it being up over 20% already YTD, I'd like to think that there has to be a pullback in Tesla soon and a better entry point to buy. That being said I've never been willing to pull the trigger on Tesla stock even though I have 112,000 miles on my 2015 Model S and still love the vehicle. Only you can decide what's right for your portfolio but I think Apple is a safer stock to own and it's the largest stock holding in my nest egg.

It's crazy to think that TSLA was under $100 a year ago and today it's at $872. . We've both missed some easy gains, lol.
 
With it's crazy run the last year and it being up over 20% already YTD, I'd like to think that there has to be a pullback in Tesla soon and a better entry point to buy. That being said I've never been willing to pull the trigger on Tesla stock even though I have 112,000 miles on my 2015 Model S and still love the vehicle. Only you can decide what's right for your portfolio but I think Apple is a safer stock to own and it's the largest stock holding in my nest egg.

It's crazy to think that TSLA was under $100 a year ago and today it's at $872. . We've both missed some easy gains, lol.

Thats was kills me most. I just never paid attention to my portfolio until the last 6 months after I cleared up some monthly expenses (student loans), and now with having refinanced thats over 500 a month for savings and investing. And I thought 300-400 a share was alot when I was ready for investing haha

My logic is either I buy 1 share now at 800, or wait for a split when it could go to 250 or something. But lets say it splits 5:1 again, I'm then essentially at 5 shares for 800 by buying now, vs 3 shares @ 750 if I waited.

But like you said maybe its due for a dip, but in 2 days its up another 100 so hard to believe that'll be coming soon before climbing more
 
I have an advisor to worry about these things, and I intend to have a little money put aside as a sandbox for things such as this, but I am leery of things that have gone parabolic or are melting up. Just my $0.02. I've also predicted eight of the last three recessions, so now you know my track record.

I overheard my wife speaking with a friend of hers last night, raving about her Tesla stock. She also disclosed that Tesla comprised 64% of her retirement portfolio. Now that is insanity.
 
I have an advisor to worry about these things, and I intend to have a little money put aside as a sandbox for things such as this, but I am leery of things that have gone parabolic or are melting up. Just my $0.02. I've also predicted eight of the last three recessions, so now you know my track record.

I overheard my wife speaking with a friend of hers last night, raving about her Tesla stock. She also disclosed that Tesla comprised 64% of her retirement portfolio. Now that is insanity.

Pure insanity. Our portfolio is still balance for "growth" but we will be shifing to about 50% equities as my wife gets ready to retire soon. I'm old enough to have had quite a few friends get burned when the dot-com bubble burst and some were too old to recover. At the time my wife was working in Silicon Valley and her company stock dropped from $150 to $13 from the peak in 2000 to the low of 2002. Luckily we were so young and we didn't have hardly any savings to lose.



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If others are feeling pretty smart about their investment decisions this last decade or so, here are the S&P500 returns by year. We’ve had a great run since the low point in March of 2009. The average return since January 1 2009 adjusted for inflation is 13.54%, about double the long term average. I’m not optimistic the next decade will be as good for stocks.

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Good chart. As they say, the path to building wealth is time in the market, not timing the market.
 
Good chart. As they say, the path to building wealth is time in the market, not timing the market.


That and not having the bad luck that one of my ex 3M co-workers had in turning 65 and retiring in early 2003 right after the stocks had a 3 year downturn. He was luckily “only” down about 20% from the dot com crash.
 
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