The Players, a 'Scrambling Contest'?

[blugold]

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/br...ions-at-tpc-sawgrass-calls-it-superstar-proof

I don't know how many caught this from Brandel, but this may be one of his dumbest takes yet.

I know his #1 job is to be the controversial voice on TGC and to gain viewership with it. But dammit man, this is just stupid.

In an era of big data, when you look for data to give you an idea of who might have a chance to do what, where and when, you’re talking about a guy in the all-around statistic that measures pretty much everything was dead last on the PGA Tour. They only go to 207. He was 207. In total driving, they only go to 207. He was 207. He was basically near the bottom of every single statistical category.


And yet, because of this golf course, and I think I did finally get my arms around it this week, because of the distance constrictions of this golf course — off of one, off of four, off of six, nine, you go all the way through the golf course, 10, 12, 14, 18, 16, because of the distance constrictions, the very best players cannot play their best game. It’s not Tiger proof, it’s superstar proof.

The winners list at The Players isn't exactly lacking star power.

 

[madi05]

Yeah I heard him say that I was thinking what an idiot saying the course made the very best players not be able to play there game,lol SMH

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[ArmyGolf]

I'm not sure if he's just trying to be 'out there' or if he can't wrap his head around the fact that all the superstars played like crap on the same weekend. It happens.

 

[Lions81]

Totally disagree with him. As you correctly pointed out, look at the list of winners over the years, a lot of big names and superstars. And the winners have been of all shapes and sizes. Bombers, course managers, etc.

Quite honestly, I like how this golf course makes guys execute shots and not just hit driver as far as they can on every hole. Most of the courses are that way these days, so its a nice change of pace.

 

[blakehall]

His hot take should have been:

"Difficult course setups take away the advantages of the bomb & gouge crowd."

(although that's not so hot of a take and wouldn't really get people talking)

 

[Mark_UK]

Who the **** is Brandel Chamblee????? I mean, I know who he is on the GC, but as a player, asuuming he was one, did he ever win anything? You got Frank Nobilo and David Duval imparting years of knowledge, and then you got that twat, who just seems to blurt out the first thing that comes into his head. I see he's blocked Poulter on twitter too LOL. Complete knob head!


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[The_Dude]

I disagree with him. Kim is by no means short, neither is JB Holmes. As a matter of fact I believe Holmes led the tour in driving distance last year. Not every course is going to set up for the bombers nor should it.
I watched some of the tournament and to my eye you need course management and be able to work the ball both ways. Btw, Kim's short game is all world.

 

[JB]

His hot take should have been:

"Difficult course setups take away the advantages of the bomb & gouge crowd."

(although that's not so hot of a take and wouldn't really get people talking)

Correct. Although with the recent changes, he may not be that wrong, right? Bad wording, or "purposeful" wording, but it does make sense. The bomb and gouge golfer (who dominates the top right now) may struggle.
Although I firmly believe that he could say the sun will rise and some fans would disagree with him...haha

 

[blakehall]

Correct. Although with the recent changes, he may not be that wrong, right? Bad wording, or "purposeful" wording, but it does make sense. The bomb and gouge golfer (who dominates the top right now) may struggle.
Although I firmly believe that he could say the sun will rise and some fans would disagree with him...haha

"Well technically the earth is rotating so the sun isn't really rising..."


I thought, like most things Brandel says, it was an interesting perspective. And, this time he actually backed it up with some statistics!

It's especially interesting, like you mentioned, given the course setup changes. Even more so when you compare what the tour is doing at TPC Sawgrass to what the USGA has done lately with Chambers Bay (and I'd imagine Erin Hills next month). It's almost like the USGA is rewarding the bomber while the tour is trying to figure out how to defend the shorter (older) courses. To me it's kind of an odd role reversal to think about.

 

[OITW]

Careful criticizing him or you just might get blocked...

I agree w/ blake on the wording, because he's not incorrect, especially when you look at 12 as the primary example.

 

[blugold]

Correct. Although with the recent changes, he may not be that wrong, right? Bad wording, or "purposeful" wording, but it does make sense. The bomb and gouge golfer (who dominates the top right now) may struggle.
Although I firmly believe that he could say the sun will rise and some fans would disagree with him...haha

My big issue was with the "superstar proof". Jason Day, Rickie Fowler, Martin Kaymer, Tiger Woods. Not exactly the most delicate of players. Not exactly no-namers either. It was just a weekend that Dustin Johnson played like crap. Rory lifts too much. Jason Day didn't play great. It's not that the course is superstar proof. The course is bad golf proof.

I know you know this, I know most of us know this, but golf isn't just driver distance. Scrambling and putting are all parts of golf.

 

[Wake]

My big issue was with the "superstar proof". Jason Day, Rickie Fowler, Martin Kaymer, Tiger Woods. Not exactly the most delicate of players. Not exactly no-namers either. It was just a weekend that Dustin Johnson played like crap. Rory lifts too much. Jason Day didn't play great. It's not that the course is superstar proof. The course is bad golf proof.

I know you know this, I know most of us know this, but golf isn't just driver distance. Scrambling and putting are all parts of golf.

I agree with your point, but in his defense, Day and maybe Tiger are probably the only ones who were playing like a Super star at the time. I think it was Rickie's second career pga win, and it was a major slump buster for Kaymer. He had been playing bad for years.

 

[Otis32]

The course is clearly not Superstar proof but it is very quirky and relies on using slopes & mounds etc. to create a very large "rub of the green" element which in turn does put a serious premium on scrambling.

Holmes hit like 5 Fairways on Saturday but still shot a decent round and was in the last group. Kim hit like 5 greens on Sunday (with some solid approach shots too) and basically won the tournament going away.........

 

[kevin81002]

Straight to the point... Chamblee is a douche. Leave it to him to take a negative stand on anything and everything. He's like the Debbie Downer of the PGA Tour.

The funny thing is after he slashes some tour pro in one of his articles, he blocks them on social media. I wonder how long his blocked list is on twitter.

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[DMoney79]

Correct. Although with the recent changes, he may not be that wrong, right? Bad wording, or "purposeful" wording, but it does make sense. The bomb and gouge golfer (who dominates the top right now) may struggle.
Although I firmly believe that he could say the sun will rise and some fans would disagree with him...haha

You are correct I tend to tone out when he speaks one way or the other he could say anything and I'm really not interested. But it did get me to write in this thread so he definitely moves the needle a little. He's not a dumb guy he knows how to stay relevant by saying just enough to piss people off he's the Rush of golf...

 

[Roadrunner]

Straight to the point... Chamblee is a douche. Leave it to him to take a negative stand on anything and everything. He's like the Debbie Downer of the PGA Tour.

The funny thing is after he slashes some tour pro in one of his articles, he blocks them on social media. I wonder how long his blocked list is on twitter.

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According to an article in Golf Digest, Chamblee has blocked 20,000 users. lol

 

[kevin81002]

According to an article in Golf Digest, Chamblee has blocked 20,000 users. lol

Holy crap! lol

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[The Milk Man]

Who the **** is Brandel Chamblee????? I mean, I know who he is on the GC, but as a player, asuuming he was one, did he ever win anything? You got Frank Nobilo and David Duval imparting years of knowledge, and then you got that twat, who just seems to blurt out the first thing that comes into his head. I see he's blocked Poulter on twitter too LOL. Complete knob head!


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Brandel was a player was on the PGA for a number of years. He has 1 win on the PGA tour.

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[McLovin]

to jb's point, was the renovation extensive enough that we can't look to past winners? i honestly don't know much about what they did and how it affects playability. i do think it's kind of stupid to focus in on one year and extrapolate that to every future year. i felt like guys who had played here for years and had expectations of breaks on the green or certain spots to hit your shot couldn't rely on that anymore with the changes. but once those guys get accustomed to the changes, i see no reason they won't be able to tear it up again.

 

[blugold]

I agree with your point, but in his defense, Day and maybe Tiger are probably the only ones who were playing like a Super star at the time. I think it was Rickie's second career pga win, and it was a major slump buster for Kaymer. He had been playing bad for years.

But Kaymer was a former World #1 and a Major winner and not exactly accurate at that point in his career. Rickie hit a superstar shot on the 16th hole. Again, it isn't about scrambling. It's about good golf. I wouldn't see that this course is distance proof, it's B-game proof.


Also, it is a bit refreshing. All we hear is how modern tour pros are making old courses obsolete. Now we have a 37 year old shorter course humbling modern tour pros.

 

[blugold]

to jb's point, was the renovation extensive enough that we can't look to past winners? i honestly don't know much about what they did and how it affects playability. i do think it's kind of stupid to focus in on one year and extrapolate that to every future year. i felt like guys who had played here for years and had expectations of breaks on the green or certain spots to hit your shot couldn't rely on that anymore with the changes. but once those guys get accustomed to the changes, i see no reason they won't be able to tear it up again.

That standard isn't used at other courses, see Augusta National, so I don't think it should be used here. I don't think the changes are as extreme as they sound. I mean, they actually shortened a hole at Sawgrass in the renovation. How often do we see that!

 

[blakehall]

My big issue was with the "superstar proof". Jason Day, Rickie Fowler, Martin Kaymer, Tiger Woods. Not exactly the most delicate of players. Not exactly no-namers either. It was just a weekend that Dustin Johnson played like crap. Rory lifts too much. Jason Day didn't play great. It's not that the course is superstar proof. The course is bad golf proof.

I know you know this, I know most of us know this, but golf isn't just driver distance. Scrambling and putting are all parts of golf.

I couldn't agree with this more.

Right now, most of the guys at the top are usually capable of blasting it so far that they can typically get away with more mistakes than Sawgrass allows. It's nice to see courses that level the playing field for non-bombers a bit. Brandel can't just say that because it wouldn't make for interesting commentary and discussion.

 

[emart2173]

It's a course where scrambling can be your friend or enemy like any Dye course. Miss on the wrong side and you are likely stating at bogey vice par. Brandel is a blowhard that needs to be taken off the air. Give me more Justin Leonard in his spot with Duval and then have Duval move to the booth for the afternoon coverage in place of Johnny Miller.

The list of winners there as others have said are both star power and unpredictable winners.

 

[JB]

Brandel was a player was on the PGA for a number of years. He has 1 win on the PGA tour.

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Why does that have anything to do with analysis?
That's like saying that some of the golf R&D guys shouldn't be allowed to create drivers because they are not scratch golfers.
Or that Roger Ebert shouldn't be allowed to review movies because he was not in Star Wars.

I get the hatred for the guy, but there is not an analyst out there in just about any sport that does their research like Chamblee.

 

[JB]

I agree with your point, but in his defense, Day and maybe Tiger are probably the only ones who were playing like a Super star at the time. I think it was Rickie's second career pga win, and it was a major slump buster for Kaymer. He had been playing bad for years.

You are right. Kaymer was no where near his #1 status when he won there and Rickie has a handful of wins total. Day and Tiger without a doubt, and I think his verbiage was a bit off, but looking at what he said as a whole, he might be right.