Tiger Woods in Car Crash

[Tenputt]

really curious about this and thanks for sharing. I’m trying to find the stat I saw earlier in the week, but it was less than a percent were done like that, so it’s interesting to hear you finding many. Do you think that is in relation to all wrecks or “here are dozens of examples” when in reality there are thousands of accidents?

I obviously can’t speak for @Elmave, but my own legal opinion is that you have it correct. There would be many examples of case law throughout the United States where an injured passenger/driver has successfully made a claim against a governmental entity for negligent road design. However, as a percentage of total accidents, the number would be tiny. I have seen the issue raised where a bicyclist was injured due to road design as well, when the cyclist was hit by a driver and the municipality or state was sued as well.

As @Elmave stated, nearly all states have some type of comparative fault, where a judge/jury can divide up the percentage of fault among multiple parties. In some of those states, if the claimant is more than 50% at fault there is no recovery, but not in all states.

Thus, let’s assume a situation like Tiger’s, where a professional athlete suffers a career ending injury. The claim could be worth millions. If a municipality were only 15% at fault, the dollar amount could still be huge.

Enterprising lawyers will always look for a deep pocket. We have read this past week of the sad situation of former basketball player Shawn Bradley, who is paralyzed from being hit from behind by a motorist while he was riding his bike. In all likelihood, that motorist is mostly, if not completely at fault. It also is very possible that the motorist has insurance coverage of $250,000 or less. In no way can that satisfy Shawn Bradley’s claim. His next place to look is his own underinsured coverage. This is why I always advise friends and family to have a large amount of underinsured coverage. It is not very expensive. Even there, though, Shawn Bradley’s claim would dwarf even a prudent amount of underinsured. This is where attorneys will look for other fault. A governmental entity has a deep pocket. They are not easy to sue, but it is done.

 

[Tenputt]

Question for you. In regards to that example, if someone’s property is damaged fault has to be assigned correct? Animal can’t be negligent and therefore responsible, therefore if insured is paying, they are responsible.

In your example, which is a good one, the person claiming property damage (let’s say Tiger took out a house), would almost certainly sue Tiger. Tiger would defend the case by claiming an intervening cause (the animal) and no negligence on his part. If Tiger prevailed, the property owner would have to recover from his/her own property insurance carrier.

 

[JB]

In your example, which is a good one, the person claiming property damage (let’s say Tiger took out a house), would almost certainly sue Tiger. Tiger would defend the case by claiming an intervening cause (the animal) and no negligence on his part. If Tiger prevailed, the property owner would have to recover from his/her own property insurance carrier.

In that example however, that would mean that the investigation gave no fault in accident, correct? Which based on the above is quite rare.

 

[Tenputt]

In that example however, that would mean that the investigation gave no fault in accident, correct? Which based on the above is quite rare.

Yes, and it definitely is rare as a percentage of cases. However, with the thousands and thousands of motor vehicle accidents, it certain happens.

 

[Elmave]

really curious about this and thanks for sharing. I’m trying to find the stat I saw earlier in the week, but it was less than a percent were done like that, so it’s interesting to hear you finding many. Do you think that is in relation to all wrecks or “here are dozens of examples” when in reality there are thousands of accidents?

I don't know the number of single car accidents in the United States but im guessing that number is astronomical.And it would make sense that if someone did a statistical analysis the amount that would be caused by anything other than negligence on the drivers part would be tiny in comparison to accidents caused solely by the drivers negligence. So a statistic that says less than a percent of single car accidents were caused by Highway design or highway maintenance negligence compared to the gross total would not be a surprise, although im not sure how someone could actually come up with sufficient information to come up with a percentage although that number makes sense. Just like how many single car accidents are caused without fault on the part of a driver because a deer came running out, a dog any animal a pedestrian. And I guess when I say many that comes from cases I have handled or in doing legal research on highway design or maintenance or municipal liability that when I research on Westlaw and cases come up I would consider 20, 50 or a hundred as many although in the grand scheme of things I wouldn't doubt the great and overwhelming number of single car accidents are solely the fault of some negligence on the drivers part. But single car accidents that are not the fault of the driver or in which some other party not operating a vehicle is responsible do happen.

 

[Elmave]

I obviously can’t speak for @Elmave, but my own legal opinion is that you have it correct. There would be many examples of case law throughout the United States where an injured passenger/driver has successfully made a claim against a governmental entity for negligent road design. However, as a percentage of total accidents, the number would be tiny. I have seen the issue raised where a bicyclist was injured due to road design as well, when the cyclist was hit by a driver and the municipality or state was sued as well.

As @Elmave stated, nearly all states have some type of comparative fault, where a judge/jury can divide up the percentage of fault among multiple parties. In some of those states, if the claimant is more than 50% at fault there is no recovery, but not in all states.

Thus, let’s assume a situation like Tiger’s, where a professional athlete suffers a career ending injury. The claim could be worth millions. If a municipality were only 15% at fault, the dollar amount could still be huge.

Enterprising lawyers will always look for a deep pocket. We have read this past week of the sad situation of former basketball player Shawn Bradley, who is paralyzed from being hit from behind by a motorist while he was riding his bike. In all likelihood, that motorist is mostly, if not completely at fault. It also is very possible that the motorist has insurance coverage of $250,000 or less. In no way can that satisfy Shawn Bradley’s claim. His next place to look is his own underinsured coverage. This is why I always advise friends and family to have a large amount of underinsured coverage. It is not very expensive. Even there, though, Shawn Bradley’s claim would dwarf even a prudent amount of underinsured. This is where attorneys will look for other fault. A governmental entity has a deep pocket. They are not easy to sue, but it is done.

Excellent points. Im sure many people don't know what underinsurance coverage is and unless someone tells them or if they don't have a good insurance agent who tells them and encourages them to get it they don't get it. Don't know about Utah but in New York drivers are only legally obligated to carry Twenty five thousand dollars liability insurance which in reality to a party who is seriously injured is nothing. At least with underinsurance as you and I know someone injured by someone with low coverage can after getting the responsible partys carrier to pay the policy can then turn to their own. Pretty sure @Tenputt and I agree everyone here who isn't sure they have it should check and make sure they get it.

 

[IceyShanks]

Detectives find cause of Tiger Woods crash but won't reveal it

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/31172985/detectives-find-cause-tiger-woods-crash-reveal

 

[Templet0n]

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/31172985/detectives-find-cause-tiger-woods-crash-reveal

That just adds to the sketchiness of it all. If he was not at fault. Say so honestly and transparently. Social elites get protected too often.

We have reached out to Tiger Woods and his personnel," Villanueva said. "There's some privacy issues on releasing information on the investigation, so we're going to ask them if they waive the privacy and then we will be able to do a full release on all the information regarding the accident."

This probably means Tigers lawyers got involved and there is some kind go gag until they can figure out the spin.

 

[Nate]

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/31172985/detectives-find-cause-tiger-woods-crash-reveal

Where is TMZ on this.......

 

[Duffer Seamus]

This probably means Tigers lawyers got involved and there is some kind go gag until they can figure out the spin.

Not a good look, because now it looks like Woods has something to hide and he's going to use the power he's gained from his celebrity to do so.

 

[Templet0n]

Not a good look, because now it looks like Woods has something to hide and he's going to use the power he's gained from his celebrity to do so.

Exactly

 

[McLovin]

does anyone with knowledge of ca’s policies know what types of conditions are covered under privacy? could it be a health issue, rather than impairment?

 

[Smiter]

That just adds to the sketchiness of it all. If he was not at fault. Say so honestly and transparently. Social elites get protected too often.

We have reached out to Tiger Woods and his personnel," Villanueva said. "There's some privacy issues on releasing information on the investigation, so we're going to ask them if they waive the privacy and then we will be able to do a full release on all the information regarding the accident."

This probably means Tigers lawyers got involved and there is some kind go gag until they can figure out the spin.

He fell asleep at the wheel due to a medical condition. They can’t release that without his permission/his team doing it. It’s a violation of HIPPA.

Pretty much what I thought all along. I’ll trust the judgement of the first responders most likely knowing his history. Detecting lucidity at times, no odor of alcohol, I’m sure they checked his pupils (opiate intoxication is one of the easiest to spot-outside of smelling like booze or MJ, pinpoint pupils that barely respond to changes in lighting). Trust me, you are being checked for this after an accident even if there is no blood draw.

So... we know nothing unless Tiger wants it known. He likely will unless he’s embarrassed about falling asleep at the wheel. Hell, for all we know he had a seizure and couldn’t do anything.

 

[Smiter]

Not a good look, because now it looks like Woods has something to hide and he's going to use the power he's gained from his celebrity to do so.

I disagree. See my prior post a minute or two ago.

HIPPA is a real thing.

 

[BigMac]

does anyone with knowledge of ca’s policies know what types of conditions are covered under privacy? could it be a health issue, rather than impairment?

I can say that only "parties of interest" are entitled to get copies of the report. That would be involved parties, insurance companies, attorneys, courts, etc. Joe Schmoe can't walk in off the street and request a copy of Tiger Woods' collision investigation (or anybody else's, for that matter). It could also be a HIPAA (not "HIPPA") issue if there are medical matters involved.

With that said, it's not unusual for investigating agencies to issue a press release regarding the cause of the collision in general terms. I can't address why LASD isn't doing so - I don't know their policies & procedures, or what kind of legal wrangling is going on behind the scenes.

 

[Templet0n]

He fell asleep at the wheel due to a medical condition. They can’t release that without his permission/his team doing it. It’s a violation of HIPPA.

Pretty much what I thought all along. I’ll trust the judgement of the first responders most likely knowing his history. Detecting lucidity at times, no odor of alcohol, I’m sure they checked his pupils (opiate intoxication is one of the easiest to spot-outside of smelling like booze or MJ, pinpoint pupils that barely respond to changes in lighting). Trust me, you are being checked for this after an accident even if there is no blood draw.

So... we know nothing unless Tiger wants it known. He likely will unless he’s embarrassed about falling asleep at the wheel. Hell, for all we know he had a seizure and couldn’t do anything.

I freely admit to know knowing the rules to this. But, it is failing the smell test for me.

this is a police investigation. Honestly don’t know where hippa applies there..

 

[Duffer Seamus]

HIPPA is a real thing.

Inconsequential. My point had nothing to do with legality, but the appearance of the thing.

As an aside: Being an ex-IT guy, I'm more than a little familiar with the mandates of HIPPA. I had to cite them on more than one occasion when management tried to demand something that would have run afoul of it.

 

[Smiter]

Inconsequential. My point had nothing to do with legality, but the appearance of the thing.

As an aside: Being an ex-IT guy, I'm more than a little familiar with the mandates of HIPPA. I had to cite them on more than one occasion when management tried to demand something that would have run afoul of it.

I get that, I guess I just look at it differently. When I had my accident, it was embarrassing as I caused it. It was caused by a medical condition, and I’d have appreciated it if the entire world didn’t know about it.

Which I’m not Tiger so no one does nor cares, but I’d have told them to not release anything if say the media wanted to report on it.

 

[Afizzle2100]

The fact of the matter is Tiger had literally JUST had back surgery before the tournament. If he truly fell asleep at the wheel then I think it’s impossible that painkillers didn’t play a role here.

He forced his way out there to give it his all and host his tournament. Participated in way too many sponsorship obligations, all while just recovering from surgery. I myself passed out randomly 3 days after my wisdom tooth surgery due to the schedule of painkillers I was on and not staying hydrated. I HIGHLY doubt he was not prescribed something for pain. Even if he didn’t take pain meds before he rushed out of that hotel in morning while he was late, the combination of lack of sleep and being on a schedule of pain meds previous could easily make someone fall asleep at the wheel.

unfortunately when someone begins to believe that no task is too big for them, they think they can handle anything. It surely seems like Tiger is like this, the documentary helped highlight that. it may not seem like a big deal to wake up and drive if you haven’t taken a painkiller in the last 6 hours. But if you’ve been on a schedule of them for upwards of 3 days, its still irresponsible to drive on them with very little sleep.

And all of this isn’t even factoring in his past history with the stuff.

everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but the evidence here just seems damning. the fact of the matter is Tiger doesn’t have anyone in his life to check his worst impulses or anyone that he is connected with on a true personal level that can look out for his best interest or keep him grounded. His dad was that person but not a good influence per say. Everyone else he seemed to push away.

 

[Smiter]

The fact of the matter is Tiger had literally JUST had back surgery before the tournament. If he truly fell asleep at the wheel then I think it’s impossible that painkillers didn’t play a role here.

He forced his way out there to give it his all and host his tournament. Participated in way too many sponsorship obligations, all while just recovering from surgery. I myself passed out randomly 3 days after my wisdom tooth surgery due to the schedule of painkillers I was on and not staying hydrated. I HIGHLY doubt he was not prescribed something for pain. Even if he didn’t take pain meds before he rushed out of that hotel in morning while he was late, the combination of lack of sleep and being on a schedule of pain meds previous could easily make someone fall asleep at the wheel.

unfortunately when someone begins to believe that no task is too big for them, they think they can handle anything. It surely seems like Tiger is like this, the documentary helped highlight that. it may not seem like a big deal to wake up and drive if you haven’t taken a painkiller in the last 6 hours. But if you’ve been on a schedule of them for upwards of 3 days, its still irresponsible to drive on them with very little sleep.

And all of this isn’t even factoring in his past history with the stuff.

everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but the evidence here just seems damning. the fact of the matter is Tiger doesn’t have anyone in his life to check his worst impulses or anyone that he is connected with on a true personal level that can look out for his best interest or keep him grounded. His dad was that person but not a good influence per say. Everyone else he seemed to push away.

I still disagree. First responders play a huge role in whom is tested and what charges. 1. It was a 1 vehicle accident with no one else injured (I’m sure tiger can cover any property damage). 2. He was badly injured.

I guarantee first responders were looking for signs of intoxication. If nothing else it can effect what they can give you to sedate you. Opiate signs are very simple to spot. They checked me for that at my accident. They didn’t say that but I know why they shined a light in my eyes.

I didn’t smell like booze, nor MJ, and my pupils reacted normally. Conclusion? Not an OVI related accident.

Now a case could be made that he could hire an awesome driver and be fine in a limo for life.

I have several medical conditions that about 1% of the time make it hard for me to drive. I’ve lesrned ways to mitigate the danger, but I still have an occasional day where it’s not good. I have no choice (and usually don’t know until on the road that it’s an issue) but to go.

What do you do? Tiger likely should just hire a driver. I don’t have that luxury.

 

[Afizzle2100]

I still disagree. First responders play a huge role in whom is tested and what charges. 1. It was a 1 vehicle accident with no one else injured (I’m sure tiger can cover any property damage). 2. He was badly injured.

I guarantee first responders were looking for signs of intoxication. If nothing else it can effect what they can give you to sedate you. Opiate signs are very simple to spot. They checked me for that at my accident. They didn’t say that but I know why they shined a light in my eyes.

I didn’t smell like booze, nor MJ, and my pupils reacted normally. Conclusion? Not an OVI related accident.

Now a case could be made that he could hire an awesome driver and be fine in a limo for life.

I have several medical conditions that about 1% of the time make it hard for me to drive. I’ve lesrned ways to mitigate the danger, but I still have an occasional day where it’s not good. I have no choice (and usually don’t know until on the road that it’s an issue) but to go.

What do you do? Tiger likely should just hire a driver. I don’t have that luxury.

I think the fact that you are at least aware that when you are taking medication there is a chance that you might not be your best behind the wheel is a better place than Tiger is at. For someone in the public eye that has a history of this, you think he’d be advised by agents, friends, or anyone that if he has prescription pain meds in his blood at all whether it be 6 hours or 72 hours we will find you a driver.

I’m not gonna act like I’m better than anyone else. I’ve been behind the wheel before when I probably shouldn’t have been whether it was booze, or MJ. And that was for pleasure and not out of necessity. Now that I have a child I’ve really accepted the seriousness of putting others at risk.


and you hit the nail on the head. For an average joe like us, there isn’t much we can do in a situation where you might have to get to work while still taking prescribed medication. I’m sure the “right thing” to do is set up rides with family and friends on days where there may be a lot is driving on medication. I know Medicare offers non emergency transports, but it’s tough to qualify for that. However it’s not that easy as not everyone has someone available like that. I don’t know the right answer for a person like us.

however tiger has infinite money and resources. I know he is independent, but for someone with that much responsibility it just makes sense to have help on the little things like driving, especially coming off back surgery with assumed prescriptions.

 

[Tenputt]

The reality is that we just don’t know what has not been revealed. It could be:

1. A mechanical failure, such as brakes.
2. A seizure or something other that could not be anticipated.
3. Tiger fell asleep.
4. Some intervening cause that we have not yet been made aware of (such as an animal jumping in front of Tiger.
5. Tiger under the influence.
6. I could go on.

I have my own assumptions as to what happened, but I might as well not guess. The truth is that sometimes celebrities get off easier than we normal people. Sometimes they are used as examples and get away with less. It would be nice if a reason would be revealed that would exculpate Tiger of wrongdoing.

 

[Greg Kulbick]

The reality is that we just don’t know what has not been revealed. It could be:

1. A mechanical failure, such as brakes.

As host of the Genesis Invitational, I doubt that if this is the case, Tiger will allow them to release that the brakes on his Genesis courtesy vehicle failed.

 

[Smiter]

I think the fact that you are at least aware that when you are taking medication there is a chance that you might not be your best behind the wheel is a better place than Tiger is at. For someone in the public eye that has a history of this, you think he’d be advised by agents, friends, or anyone that if he has prescription pain meds in his blood at all whether it be 6 hours or 72 hours we will find you a driver.

I’m not gonna act like I’m better than anyone else. I’ve been behind the wheel before when I probably shouldn’t have been whether it was booze, or MJ. And that was for pleasure and not out of necessity. Now that I have a child I’ve really accepted the seriousness of putting others at risk.


and you hit the nail on the head. For an average joe like us, there isn’t much we can do in a situation where you might have to get to work while still taking prescribed medication. I’m sure the “right thing” to do is set up rides with family and friends on days where there may be a lot is driving on medication. I know Medicare offers non emergency transports, but it’s tough to qualify for that. However it’s not that easy as not everyone has someone available like that. I don’t know the right answer for a person like us.

however tiger has infinite money and resources. I know he is independent, but for someone with that much responsibility it just makes sense to have help on the little things like driving, especially coming off back surgery with assumed prescriptions.

I’m very cognizant of when I am ok to drive. I’m still juggling some medicine from the illness while trying to manage the side effects side effects. All I know is two small blue pills and I need 8 hours before I drive.

Not those ones, different ones.

There are certain time frames for other things but they’re not near as bad as the prescription medicine I was prescribed to stop trembling from my illness.

Illness is gone, trembling is not. Likely to clear up in 3 months more at most thank god.

 

[EstebanTornado]

Lol, someone here claims to be familiar with the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act doesn’t even know the acronym.