Titleist responds to the USGA's Distance Insights Report

LICC

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Adam Scott isn't Ben Hogan, no. But my point is, it's 300 yards longer, when everyone is saying oh you need 8k long courses to challenge these guys. No, you just need better layouts and course setup to do it. Don't give them 500yd par 4's. They're just going to take driver and smash it as hard as they can, because they have to. Not exactly forcing them to hit it shorter, that's for sure.
Look at Medinah. In 1990 Hale Irwin won with -8, and the players tied at 10th were at -4, with the course playing at 7200 yards.
Last year at the BMW, Justin Thomas won at -25, and the players tied for 10th were at -14, with the course playing at 7600 yards.
 

LICC

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Hit what gets you in play. A lot more get used off the tee than you think
And that is not what a true golf fan wants to see. Courses tricked up to force drivers out of the players hands ... pass.
 

fupresti

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Look at Medinah. In 1990 Hale Irwin won with -8, and the players tied at 10th were at -4, with the course playing at 7200 yards.
Last year at the BMW, Justin Thomas won at -25, and the players tied for 10th were at -14, with the course playing at 7600 yards.
US Open setup vs FedEX Cup setup. Not even close to the same thing.
 

fupresti

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And that is not what a true golf fan wants to see. Courses tricked up to force drivers out of the players hands ... pass.
You speak for yourself unless you have quantifiable data. Remember that.
 

MWard

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And that is not what a true golf fan wants to see. Courses tricked up to force drivers out of the players hands ... pass.
Guess you're not a fan of Innisbrook.. The Honda.. Bay Hill.. All courses that off the top of my head have long irons being used off of certain tees for position rather than power.
 

LICC

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US Open setup vs FedEX Cup setup. Not even close to the same thing.
Incorrect- the 1990 US Open was set up benignly. From SI at the time:

"Low rounds and feeding frenzies characterized the 90th U.S. Open. The monster that was Medinah No. 3—7,195 supposedly treacherous, tree-lined yards-played so benignly that after 36 holes the course might have been renamed Madonna No. 3. In last Thursday's opening round, a record 39 subpar scores were fired. Forty-seven more players blitzed par on Friday, and, in all, 124 subpar rounds were shot during the tournament, nearly twice the previous record of 64 set at The Country Club in 1988. Twenty-eight players beat par, 17 more than ever before. ...

Then the kinder and gentler folks of the USGA got involved in setting up the new, improved Medinah for the Open. The red flag should have gone up when even Seve Ballesteros, he of the wayward driver, described the setup of the course as "very fair." The primary rough, which was five inches long in 1975, was shortened to four inches. The fringe surrounding the greens was cut to 1¾ inches rather than two. And when the golfers started howling that the second green, a 180-yard par 3 that slopes steeply from back to front, was too severe, P.J. Boatwright Jr., the rules and competitions director of the USGA, agreed and ordered the mower blades raised [1/32] of an inch so that the green played at [9/64] of an inch in height, while every other green on the course was cut to [7/64]. "The USGA and the man on my left [Boatwright] have more compassion than you think," said USGA vice-president Stuart Bloch, at a Wednesday press conference."
 

LICC

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Guess you're not a fan of Innisbrook.. The Honda.. Bay Hill.. All courses that off the top of my head have long irons being used off of certain tees for position rather than power.
Yes, one or two holes for variety. Not a majority of holes to keep scores lower.
 

tahoebum

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Guess you're not a fan of Innisbrook.. The Honda.. Bay Hill.. All courses that off the top of my head have long irons being used off of certain tees for position rather than power.
Harbour Town is one of the shorter courses on Tour and always ranks in the top 5 favorite venues each year(ranked by the players).

Last year the winning score was -12 and only 5 were at -10 or better. I'd guess the average pro only hits about 8 drivers a round at Harbour Town.
 

LICC

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Harbour Town is one of the shorter courses on Tour and always ranks in the top 5 favorite venues each year(ranked by the players).

Last year the winning score was -12 and only 5 were at -10 or better. I'd guess the average pro only hits about 8 drivers a round at Harbour Town.
The RBC is played right after the Masters. Many of the top players skip it.
 

-CRW-

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Good for Titleist.

I don’t want bifurcation either. If you want to compete and keep an official cap, play by the rules. If you don’t, play how ever the hell you’d like. It makes no difference to me what you do as a weekend hacker.
 

radiman

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Bifurcation is already happening. Look at all the PGA pros playing cavity back irons and all of the Internet golfers playing blades....
I just wanted to say that this made me literally laugh out loud. That is all, carry on.
 

LICC

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Good for Titleist.

I don’t want bifurcation either. If you want to compete and keep an official cap, play by the rules. If you don’t, play how ever the hell you’d like. It makes no difference to me what you do as a weekend hacker.
If bifurcation were to happen, it would be made part of the rules.
 

fuffle master

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A quote from the text:

"In the spirit of contributing additional perspective to this discussion and the game’s timeless, and healthy, debate between Tradition and Technology, we believe the conclusions drawn in this Report undervalue the skill and athleticism of the game’s very best players and focus far too much on the top of the men’s professional game and project this on golf and golfers as a whole. Furthermore, we believe that existing equipment regulations effectively govern the prospects of any significant increases in hitting distance by the game’s longest hitters."


And the full text from the Titleist website. https://www.titleist.com/distance-insights-perspective
This just got a whole lot more interesting. Hmmm.
 

tequila4kapp

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I’m watching the WGC Mexico event. DJ hit a 3w 303 yards, it landed softly, easily held the green and he had a 7’ (?) eagle putt. Tell me again how we are playing the same game.
 

radiman

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I’m watching the WGC Mexico event. DJ hit a 3w 303 yards, it landed softly, easily held the green and he had a 7’ (?) eagle putt. Tell me again how we are playing the same game.
They are also at like 8,000 feet above sea level. It's like 10-15% extra carry.
 

tahoebum

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They are also at like 8,000 feet above sea level. It's like 10-15% extra carry.
Yep. At that altitude its about 10-16% farther depending upon the trajectory of the shot. I used to figure 8% in Lake Tahoe which was 6,230 elevation but these guys are at 7,600 this week.
 

Sean

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The USGA seems more interested in the 0.00001 percent of golfers, rather than the 60 million that actually keep the game alive.
 

Snowman

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The USGA seems more interested in the 0.00001 percent of golfers, rather than the 60 million that actually keep the game alive.
Color me surprised.
 

MWard

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The RBC is played right after the Masters. Many of the top players skip it.
I’m watching the WGC Mexico event. DJ hit a 3w 303 yards, it landed softly, easily held the green and he had a 7’ (?) eagle putt. Tell me again how we are playing the same game.
DJ shot 76, hit 7 fairways, 10 greens, and putted like trash. I'd say DJ can find a ton of people on this forum who can feel his pain with a terrible putting day.
 

Scorpion12

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Acushnet’s response is what a lot of us are saying. It’s not just equipment. The players are more athletic... etc... yadda, yadda, yadda. I like it.
 

93civiccpe

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Acushnet’s response is what a lot of us are saying. It’s not just equipment. The players are more athletic... etc... yadda, yadda, yadda. I like it.
This!! Once again glad they took that stance
 

ApexFan

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? ? ?

I would hate to see restrictions or rolling it back.

Toughen up the courses - narrow the fairway and grow Up the rough so that precision becomes as important as distance. I really don’t want to watch pros hitting the ball 250 yards off the tee.
I agree a roll back is not a good thing. Watching pros would not be very interesting if they hit the ball like me.
 

blugold

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I hope Taylormade's response is just video of Rory, Rahm, and DJ driving par 4s.
 

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