when are we going to demand evidence

[parsaver]

Taylormade was down 25% the first quarter of this year and Adidas is looking for a buyer. That includes Ashworth and Adams Golf. Does this prove that false advertising can catch up with you?

'The $425 R15 and $300 AeroBurner drivers are, in fact, losing the battle to the competition, Hainer said, in announcing that Adidas will seek buyers for some or all of the company's TaylorMade business. Now he must determine what the money-losing asset is worth and who'd want it at a time when golf's popularity has ebbed.

http://www.oregonlive.com/playbooks-profits/index.ssf/2015/08/adidas_seeks_buyer_for_some_or.html

 

[robmypro]

Everyone is going to make claims about their products, and I am sure for some people, they will deliver. Our job is to find the right one for us. I think most of these companies are putting out really good equipment, but that doesn't mean they all fit my game, or ability.

 

[blugold]

Taylormade was down 25% the first quarter of this year and Adidas is looking for a buyer. That includes Ashworth and Adams Golf. Does this prove that false advertising can catch up with you?

'The $425 R15 and $300 AeroBurner drivers are, in fact, losing the battle to the competition, Hainer said, in announcing that Adidas will seek buyers for some or all of the company's TaylorMade business. Now he must determine what the money-losing asset is worth and who'd want it at a time when golf's popularity has ebbed.

http://www.oregonlive.com/playbooks-profits/index.ssf/2015/08/adidas_seeks_buyer_for_some_or.html

Do you think that Taylormade was falsely advertising?

 

[emart2173]

Do you think that Taylormade was falsely advertising?

i doubt it. Part of their several year decline thanks to inventory control and a series of not fit for the masses products. I like where they are headed with the new line but don't know if it will be enough to lift them up

 

[mcrobertsjmac32]

No offense here, but that is just your critical and semi cynical view of marketing. Which is fine. Bridgestone as plenty of commercials like that, Titleist does as well. They just come to different conclusions.

Let me ask you this, if a company continues to make marketing claims, but their products fail to meet those claims, how long will that company stay in business?

I feel that Callaway has had some claims that definitely fail to meet them and they are getting stronger. I don't hear many people complaining that they bought the Bertha irons and didn't get those 2 extra club lengths in the PW

 

[blugold]

I feel that Callaway has had some claims that definitely fail to meet them and they are getting stronger. I don't hear many people complaining that they bought the Bertha irons and didn't get those 2 extra club lengths in the PW

Callaway got brought to task on that claim. Even by Hawk's THP homepage review.

http://www.thehackersparadise.com/callaway-2014-big-bertha-irons-review/

Callaway even released the below statement clarifying their claims. After it was brought many places that the "2 Clubs Longer" claim wasn't adding up

The evidence is there with most manufacturers.

Manufactures are held to their claims and can be subject to discipline if not factual.

See this letter from Callaway.

Recently, it came to our attention that our “Up to 2 Clubs Longer” advertising claim for the Big Bertha Irons and XR Irons could potentially be interpreted as all clubs providing an equal distance benefit. As we all know from our experience with the sets, the distance and forgiveness benefits of our Cup 360 technology are real!Consumers love them and they are going to set a new standard of iron performance.
Consistent with our passion for delivering ultimate performance that benefit golfers on the course, the distance benefits are built into these sets starting with small benefits in the short irons and building in an impressive manner with large benefits in the mid and long irons.
It was never our intent to imply that the short irons delivered an equivalent distance benefit as the rest of the set and we thought that this would be naturally understood. To ensure the consumer clearly understands the benefits of these clubs, we believe it makes better business sense to simply modify the claim to accurately describe what consumers have been experiencing in droves with Big Bertha and XR. Specifically, they both deliver incredible distance through the set, or as we call it, “Distance Where You Need It.”

 

[black mamba]

This bickering is just comical.Welcome to the Internet

 

[jiiim]

This bickering is just comical.Welcome to the Internet

Yes I think a few are bickering but many agree that "truth in advertising " is something that the golf business [ to name one ] needs... building a reputation of honesty in advertising might be something that is desirable..

To many companies today...when confronted with a need to increase sales or pump up lagging sales...take the easy way out....and simply lie or at best travel the fine line legally of what they are saying..

 

[blugold]

Yes I think a few are bickering but many agree that "truth in advertising " is something that the golf business [ to name one ] needs... building a reputation of honesty in advertising might be something that is desirable..

To many companies today...when confronted with a need to increase sales or pump up lagging sales...take the easy way out....and simply lie or at best travel the fine line legally of what they are saying..

Which lie are you thinking about? There seems to be a sense of wrong doing, what did you have in mind specifically?

 

[Scrap Iron]

I feel that Callaway has had some claims that definitely fail to meet them and they are getting stronger. I don't hear many people complaining that they bought the Bertha irons and didn't get those 2 extra club lengths in the PW

Honest question have you hit the Bertha irons head to head with your current clubs. Like I said earlier I personally saw a 25 yard increase and I consider that to be 2 clubs.

 

[Awkward silence]

Honest question have you hit the Bertha irons head to head with your current clubs. Like I said earlier I personally saw a 25 yard increase and I consider that to be 2 clubs.

25 yards is easily two clubs.

 

[YetiLooper]

Which lie are you thinking about? There seems to be a sense of wrong doing, what did you have in mind specifically?

Spin milling increases spin off the face of a wedge

 

[mcrobertsjmac32]

Honest question have you hit the Bertha irons head to head with your current clubs. Like I said earlier I personally saw a 25 yard increase and I consider that to be 2 clubs.

No they don't do anything for me visually so it wasn't a club I wanted to try.

So u hit the PW 25 yards farther? So now ur PW is 140?

 

[mcrobertsjmac32]

Spin milling increases spin off the face of a wedge

Freaking Touche sir. That was a good one

 

[blugold]

No they don't do anything for me visually so it wasn't a club I wanted to try.

So u hit the PW 25 yards farther? So now ur PW is 140?

You saw that Callaway's claim wasn't meant to pertain to the short irons, but the mids and longs. Which I agree, is on them for not be clearer on that from the start.

 

[GoldenBuff]

There must be a Moore's law for golf equipment. Distance doubling every XX years?

I'm holding out until we have 300 yard putters! That's the kind of club-inflation-marketing-bonanza I can get excited about.

 

[Scrap Iron]

No they don't do anything for me visually so it wasn't a club I wanted to try.

So u hit the PW 25 yards farther? So now ur PW is 140?

If you didn't try them how do you know that you it's not true about the distance gains?

If you read my post a few pages back you would have read it was a 7 iron in the Bertha and my current 7 iron.

 

[mpeterson]

There must be a Moore's law for golf equipment. Distance doubling every XX years?

I'm holding out until we have 300 yard putters! That's the kind of club-inflation-marketing-bonanza I can get excited about.

We already have those

[video=youtube;FiFU-2JhhvQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiFU-2JhhvQ[/video]

 

[ddec]

But come on that Marc Shiels guy compared and old and new GBB and it was basically identical. Surely everything is the same too. :serious face:

 

[Nate]

Could you imagine what the uproar would be if all the OEM's did robot testing, based their advertising off the robot results and once people bought 'em they find out they are no where near the robot numbers. Talk about false advertising............

 

[blugold]

Could you imagine what the uproar would be if all the OEM's did robot testing, based their advertising off the robot results and once people bought 'em they find out they are no where near the robot numbers. Talk about false advertising............

"Your robot is juiced!"

-Cries from the outraged hordes

 

[Chump Fries]

I have always had an idea that would intermix robot results (ONLY AS A STARTING POINT) with a person's actual swing, but you would actually have to know your swing speed and angle of attack for this to work.

Step 1: Collect LOTS (I mean LOTS) of robot data. I'm talking about a major team to collect the data. Hit every driver with tons of shafts each at 1 MPH increments from 80-115 MPH swing speeds. Also, for each MPH and each shaft, hit from something like 5 degree descending blow to 5 degree ascending blow in tiny increments as well. On top of all that, get numbers (forgiveness here) in quarter inch increments from the center of the club face and work out from there. Do the same for open and shut clubfaces. Also add in swing path adjustment. I'm talking thousands and thousands of data points here.

Step 2: Get your swing speed, angle of attack, typical face angle at impact, swing patch, etc.

Step 3: Now, for your current swing characteristics, you should be able to get a recommended driver/shaft list of things to try out that maximize distance and forgiveness based on how you swing the club.

Step 4: Use the list only as a starting guide, and then hit balls till your happy.

It's not perfect and probably wouldn't work in practice, but it's the only way I can think of a way to actually use robot data in a meaningful way. As a software developer, I don't think the algorithms would be all that hard to come up with.

But l do agree with most people, just go hit stuff and find what you like because numbers are great and all, but swing the club that gives you the most confidence and has the best feel. That's the one you'll probably play best anyway.

 

[erock9174]

Honest question have you hit the Bertha irons head to head with your current clubs. Like I said earlier I personally saw a 25 yard increase and I consider that to be 2 clubs.

I could care less about advertising because I normally try clubs before buying.

While I haven't hit the Bertha 4 or 6 iron (my store only had the 7i demo I did try it against my gamer at the time (6 or so years old rapture V2 7i -1/2") as well as several leading other current SGI offerings. I'll dig up my monitor results tomorrow but my gamers, the Karsten and Bertha were all very similar in yardage.

The only way you'd get 25 yds is if the loft was about 3* stronger from your old set to the Berthas. Or the Bertha shaft length was about 2" longer. Which they could be with modern lofts and lengths. I gamed a set of Eye2 knock offs up until 5 yrs ago. The Bertha and any other current SGI club would be 25 yds longer I reckon than those. But that's because the Bertha 6i specs are like my eye2 knock off 3j specs

 

[adamlewis45]

I've never seen a robot play golf before. So why should it tell me what a club should do if I buy?

That's why THP and it's awesome staff and member reviewers are so great. Real people, real experiences, real results, right from those people.

I agree, If your looking for new equipment why the need to see what the club does in the hands of a robot? have a browse for the drivers/other clubs your thinking of buying have a look on here then if you can go and test them for yourself, nothing will help you understand a club better than when your standing there with it in your hand, the main point should be how the club feels for you, not what it does with a robot.

 

[blugold]

The only way you'd get 25 yds is if the loft was about 3* stronger from your old set to the Berthas. Or the Bertha shaft length was about 2" longer. Which they could be with modern lofts and lengths. I gamed a set of Eye2 knock offs up until 5 yrs ago. The Bertha and any other current SGI club would be 25 yds longer I reckon than those. But that's because the Bertha 6i specs are like my eye2 knock off 3j specs

To just say stronger lofts are the reason for distance gains is simply not true and, with all due respect, a very simplistic view of modern golf club design