The thrower swing vs the dragger swing and Golf Digest

jnug

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I had to go to the dentist today and my dental office subscribes to Golf Digest. I know Golf Digest has taken its hits both here and elsewhere and I understand the issues folks have with Golf Digest.

However it did something for me today that in my view deserves a commendation.

This was the June issue. There is an article in there that discusses the difference between those that are throwers and those that are draggers as it relates to swing characteristics. There are similar postings on the Internet that use the terms Swinger vs Hitter but the idea is basically the same.

At any rate it was a revelation for me. In truth I have always been a thrower (defined as someone that mainly throws the club head at the ball.). The dragger tends to have a more traditional swing approach with one exception. The major difference between the two approaches is that the thrower releases his wrists during the downswing while the dragger holds his wrist hinge as long as possible and into the hitting area. In addition the thrower makes a full body turn with the associated weight shift and finishes with a full swing. The dragger tends to make less of a turn and leaves much of his weight 50:50 during his backswing and tends to have a shorter swing finish. As you can probably tell, draggers take bigger divots than throwers do.

I have always been a thrower. However over the course of my most recent swing improvement efforts I have tried too hard I think to integrate features of the dragger's swing into my own. The article points out that most of us are somewhere in the middle and I agree with that as well.

Mainly I have been too much influenced by the whole "take a divot" thing. Surely taking goodly sized divots makes a good deal of sense for draggers. However a thrower would tend to take a much smaller divot and in some cases may not take one at all. Interestingly during this period I have not elevated the ball as much as I am used to and attributed that to my lack of success with the dragger swing while in fact as it turns out I was likely only exacerbating my problem by trying to adopt more of the dragger swing.

Today as soon as I went back to my much more thrower like swing, I was elevating the ball as I should and making solid contact as well. At the very least this turned out to be a liberating experience for me because I had been bound and determined to "correct" my thrower tendencies regardless of how much aggravation it caused me. Frankly I had not really done that much with the dragger swing which is probably why my natural swing characteristics came back so quickly.

At any rate it is a good article to read. I would hope that for either thrower or dragger, the article might result in some degree of relief for you if you have been fighting your natural swing tendencies.

There is also a very good article in there about Matt Koucher and the changes that Foley made to his swing. That also made good reading and there are likely some tips there for some if not all of us. There were a number of other very helpful and practical training aids in this edition. It may in fact be the best Golf Digest I have seen in a long time.
 
I can't tell which one I am actually I always take a divot or at least 9 out of 10 shots have a divot. In which I would like to think I keep my hands/club in the hitting area longer. But I would be willing to bet that this train of thought varies from round to round haha
 
As the article tries to point out most of us tend to combine features of both swings and are mostly one or the other as opposed to being all one or the other. It also points out that the degree to which you keep your wrists hinged is the most relevant characteristic of one or the other with the thrower releasing his wrists well before the club head gets to the hitting area with the dragger holding his wrist hinge into the hitting area.

The article also lists famous throwers and draggers. Couples, Dustin Johnson, Els, Fowler, Nicklaus and Mickelson appear on the list of throwers. Donald, Faldo, Zach Johnson, Garcia, Mahan,and Lee Trevino appear on the list of draggers.
 
I'm a thrower...but I have also heard the term casting (like, casting a fishing rod)

IDK...I just play
 
My coach (well soon to be) talks about this a good bit. He teaches the "dragger" method, says its more consistent.
 
There are fewer moving parts to the dragger swing and I think therein lies its tendency to be more consistent. Definitely a quieter swing from the waist down. On the other hand, if one tends to be a thrower, I think a conversion can be difficult and not very rewarding. I have driven myself slightly nuts and really did not get much out of it.

I do think that in my case, I have to keep my hands out in front of my body and not let my arms get going all over the place. The combination of a more active lower half and an out of control pair of arms is probably a recipe for thrower disaster. That said I am sure there are throwers with so much natural ability that they can be more liberal with their upper bodies. That is not me for sure.

What was really helpful for me in the article is that it got me off my own insistence on adopting more of the dragger swing. It became an albatross around my neck that did more harm than good. If it was my natural swing I would be happy with it but it is just not and going back to what for me is a more natural swing felt well.....natural.
 
God I am glad I went back to my old swing. I hit the ball pretty well today for having just converted back to my old thrower swing. Hit some very good irons and it took so much pressure off my driving that I drove the ball very well.

Takes a good deal of stress of my balky elbow as well, not because the dragger swing is more damaging to the elbow but because I was executing it so poorly that I was really hurting myself. By the end of a nine hole practice session I was hitting my longest drives of the season so far and hitting hitting my fairways as well as I have all year and hitting my irons reasonably well. Feels good to be back on track for sure.
 
I can't tell which one I am actually I always take a divot or at least 9 out of 10 shots have a divot. In which I would like to think I keep my hands/club in the hitting area longer. But I would be willing to bet that this train of thought varies from round to round haha

With me it might be from shot to shot sometimes. :D
 
I have been fighting this as well. My natural iron swing is a thrower or ball hitter. My first teacher embraced that and taught me a few tips to make my swing more consistent. He had me holding my right elbow to my side and open the the club face as I took the club back and then close it over as I swing threw. I had great success with it until I went last year to another teacher, the first one moved away. The new teacher said my old swing was all wrong and wanted me to create more lag and focus on swinging the club while holding my wrist cock.

I have been a mess ever since and the frustration is really beginning to set in! I'm so inconsistent, ball contact is horrible, and I find myself stuck between two swings. Before the new lesson, I could put my left shoulder on my target and draw the ball right to it. With the new swing he had me open up a bit, have my shoulder left of the target and swing through it. When it works its a nice straight ball flight but still not as accurate as the old one.

The only reason I wanted to change things up was because when I really got on an iron I would tug it more left but now I just push it right. I think I'm gonna embrace what feels natural and try to enjoy the game again, cause right now I'm not very happy with it.

It's so frustrating to go from shooting mid to low 80's and knocking on the 70's door to shooting 90's and struggling to break 80. I played horribly at the outting and I played horribly at the river course with One-T Monday carding a 109. I haven't shot a round that high in over 3 years! Something has to change, I simply can't keep playing like this.
 
The only reason I wanted to change things up was because when I really got on an iron I would tug it more left

Funny you should mention this. Although I had not been attempting to integrate more of the dragger swing for that reason in reality on occasion I will tug one left with my thrower swing as well. I think if my tempo is off with my old thrower swing, the result is that I come to far inside out. The ball does not start left and stay there but it hooks left. So it is not the club face at impact it is cutting across the ball inside out. I do know what causes it in my case. Getting quick with the dragger swing causes one set of problems and getting quick with the thrower swing at least in my case causes the hook left.

The article points out that we all tend to have characteristics of both swings but are mostly one or the other so having some characteristics of both is not necessarily a bad thing but being caught between swings is a whole different problem. For example I think a good many people try to move into the ball by shifting their weight back on their backswing and then forward on their downswing while attempting to keep their wrists hinged well into the hitting zone. Your first teacher having your right elbow closer to your side was definitely an effort to integrate an aspect of the dragger swing into your thrower swing as a means of gaining consistency. I actually like to keep my hands out in front of me and keep my right elbow closer to my side as well even in my thrower swing. I think the caution in doing it that way is to not get stuck behind. You can't get that elbow too far inside or you won't clear your swing. I think the way around it is to make sure you clear your hips so that they are not just right there as your arms try to come through because you are pivoting over your back leg.

If I could have gotten the idea of pivoting over my left side to have worked for me (I am right handed), I might have had a better shot at the dragger swing. However I really had a hard time with that and it made driving the ball more difficult for me because it made the driver swing that much more different than my iron swing. By that I mean I had a hard time staying back for my driver swing.

As I think I mentioned earlier in my case I became insistent that I needed to take a bigger divot in order to continue to improve my swing and that sent me down the dragger path. I take a divot with my thrower swing but it is relatively small. However if I do try to integrate too many aspects of the dragger into my swing I am so bad at it that a swing that should inherently produce more consistent results tends to do just the opposite for me.

I can tell you that the biggest surprise for me about the mainly dragger approach was that it produces lower trajectory more often than not. I thought it would do just the opposite. However the article points out that it tends to produce lower trajectory shots and that was my experience as well. I hit the ball higher and longer with the mainly thrower approach. Go figure!! I can also tell you that I missed the cleaner feel of the thrower swing. I make better contact with the thrower and not only does the ball look like it in flight but it felt like it as well.

I don't know D. Sounds like you were happier with your mainly thrower swing. Maybe go to the range and try the old swing but don't put a lotta' pressure on yourself. See what happens. Just be wary of getting stuck behind if you do keep that elbow tucked using the thrower swing.
 
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This is Golf Machine theory and I love it. Jim McLean made a career and many other famous teacher's careers on the basis that NO TEACHER should EVER try to convert someone from their natural swinger/hitter (thrower/dragger in the mag so they don't have to get TGM permission) tendencies to teach a "method". I'd suggest running from any teacher who tries to convert you from your natural swing pattern.
 
I have to agree with you all4's. I suppose if a teacher starts from scratch with a new golfer that has no tendencies maybe he can coax the swing one way or the other but trying to make a radical change seems pretty tough to me.
 
All I know is I'm converting back to my old iron swing. I'm a hitter of the ball and not a swinger of the club. Trying to change that is making me hate the game right now. For the last few months I have had so many swing thoughts in my head that I can't even chip and putt anymore.
 
Don't blame ya' man. Anybody around that can help you or are you just going to go to the range and try to get the feel back for the old swing?
 
great stuff to read in here from everyone. kudos to all...i'm a thrower, to make sure I would keep proper shaft angle through the ball I always keep with the idea of "throwing my hands through the ball".
 
This is great thread, I am a dragger of the golf ball. I was taught to hold the angles as long as possible through the hitting area. I think is has aided in my length with my clubs. I'm not silly long like Bubba but I'm also only 5'8".
David Toms is a great example of a thrower and Rory M. is a great example of a dragger.
 
So I gotta' ask Tad....Do you pivot/turn behind the ball, over your right side for a right hander or do you stay more over the ball through the whole swing with a pivot/turn that is mainly over your left side with less weight transfer back on the backswing and then forward on the downswing?
 
Don't blame ya' man. Anybody around that can help you or are you just going to go to the range and try to get the feel back for the old swing?

I think going to the range will get the feel back. During the outting I was on the range alot and the old swing came back and I was hitting the ball pretty well. When I got onto the course for play though all the swing thoughts came back and I couldn't make it happen. I'm going back to playing more feel and not worry so much about the technical side of things. I don't have the body make-up to swing like Thainer and trying to do so will just keep me frustrated.
 
So Thainer do you keep your right elbow close to your right side and just make sure to clear your hips so you don't get stuck behind or are you a little freer with your right elbow letting it get a bit out away from your right side?
 
Does this help at all? Im a big believer in allowing the elbow to come off of the body, as long as it doesnt get stuck outside.

 
Thanks T...yes that helped alot! In fact the more I look at it the more I am convinced that my right elbow position is closer to yours. I don't get it right against the side like the true dragger anymore anyway. I just don't want it flailing away. However I realize that the more I go back to my old thrower swing the more I let it come around my body as apposed to keeping it close in to my side.
 
I had not thought of the swings in this way, although I certainly remember reading about this for years in Golf Mag/Digest/Week. I'm definitely a dragger for my mid-low irons and wedges. I find that holding that angle and releasing really compresses the ball. Today at the range, I realized I was not doing that throughout the set. As I move into my higher irons, hybrids, woods and driver, I start to become a thrower! :confused2: This is especially true of my driver which I have little to no consistency with. I started making slower tempo swings with the dragging technique and I think this may be a key for my long game.
 
This right here

Originally Posted by All4's
I'd suggest running from any teacher who tries to convert you from your natural swing pattern.

is truth!

<cough> TIGER! <cough>

I know, I know ... :eek:fftopic:
 
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