In my first article in this series, I made a statement that continues to prove itself true every day:
What a great time to be a bad golfer.
That statement has never been more true than it is when looking at the evolution of golf instruction. I don’t plan on touching on the advancements in motion capture and data collection that have enabled people to finally see exactly what is happening in the world’s best golf swings. Surely there are many people better equipped to do that than I am. Instead, I want to focus on how the internet has made finding quality instruction accessible and affordable. I won’t be writing out a bunch of bullet points that will tell you if online lessons are right for you. That’s a decision you’ll have to make for yourself. Instead, I want to share my experience in the hopes that it will help those of you that are interested make the choice to start. I will stress that no matter what method of instruction you choose, change is a gradual process that takes time, patience, and perseverance.
Why Online?
The purpose of the Breaking the Code series is to explore technology’s impact on game improvement, so I decided to eschew my local options and find an online instructor for the project. Online instruction was in its infancy before my golf hiatus. A small number of instructors offered virtual lessons, but they were the exception.
Like many of you, I was a captive audience to the local PGA professionals in my area. Was that so bad? Not necessarily, but it wasn’t perfect. While PGA certification does at least ensure a level of proficiency in golf, it doesn’t guarantee a person is a good communicator or that their methodology works for everybody. I was craving more. I wanted to collaborate with an instructor to build a roadmap to success. I wanted somebody to listen to me and design a program that worked for me. I wanted an open line of communication between lessons to ensure I was making progress and hitting benchmarks. I wanted to be able to go back to the lesson tee and remember exactly what it was that my teacher said before I started hitting balls better.
Failure at a Snail’s Pace
Inspired and energized, I dove into research and almost immediately all hope that I’d come to a quick decision on my new teacher was dashed. Unlike ten years ago, when options were scarce, there is an overabundance of online instructors available today. An hour of browsing YouTube or Instagram should make that clear.
Eventually, I settled on star power as my deciding factor. Yes, I’m an idiot sometimes. Seriously. I noticed a person I’d been following on social media had a lesson program, so I did some research, reached out to him, and eventually enrolled. The basic plan was that I would watch an instructional series and send him swing videos twice a month for analysis. My gut told me he was too busy to offer me what I really needed, but I am an eternal optimist. Believing everything would work itself out, I digested hours of instructional material, carefully took swing videos, sent them off for analysis, and waited for a response.
And waited. And waited. I waited ten days for a response to be exact. While waiting, I did what any idiot would do and self-diagnosed and self-prescribed. We all do it, but it’s sometimes unproductive and often damaging. In my case, it was mostly the former. I was able to make some small improvements, but nothing near what I’d hoped to accomplish in that timeframe. When my swing analysis finally arrived, I dove right in and found most of the material helpful. I even got a quick answer to some points of clarification I asked for. I worked very hard at home, and a week later sent in my next set of swing videos.
And I waited. And I self-diagnosed. And I started cheating on my instructor with YouTube videos. And I really screwed myself up. It’s a vicious cycle.
This time a response never came. Two weeks passed. My subscription was about to renew, and we’d barely interacted. Knowing winter is only so long, I finally made a good decision. I fired my instructor.
Starting Over with Skillest
Somewhat dejected, but still optimistic, I started my search again. This time I chose to use the Skillest app, an option anybody that has searched online for a golf instructor should be familiar with. Skillest is a golf-centric app that connects teachers and students from around the world. The platform enables quick communication and simplifies the online lesson process by providing a user-friendly interface for sending videos and receiving feedback. Better yet, every instructor’s page has user-reviews, and many provide sample lessons for prospective students to view.
One of Skillest’s greatest assets is its massive catalog of instructors, which includes some very well-known names. At the same time, this presents what is becoming a common complication in our modern universe: paralysis by analysis. Much like staring at Netflix for 30 minutes and struggling to find something to watch, looking through hundreds of instructors and picking the right one is a challenge. The aforementioned user-reviews and sample lessons do help, but it’s still easy to endlessly browse. Fortunately, a number of instructors offer free Zoom consultations, which can provide an easy way to see if your goals match up with their methodology.
If I learned one thing from my first experience, it was that communication (specifically, timely communication) was key. I finally narrowed down a candidate and reached out to him. Actually, I sort of poured my heart out to him, describing my long and fruitless journey, my goals, and my intense desire to improve. A short time later I received a notification that he’d responded. In fact, he’d sent me a four-minute voice message that almost immediately let me know 1) he’d listened to me and 2) he was up for the challenge. I do want to note that I didn’t mention I’d be writing an article about my experience, and he’s still unaware of that fact today.
I signed up for a monthly subscription, consisting of two in-depth video analyses, one thirty-minute live Zoom lesson, and unlimited communication between lessons. Skillest offers a price range that should fit just about any budget. In my case, the cost is $70 per month, which is close to the going rate for one short in-person lesson locally. I submitted two swing videos and quickly got a response that my instructor was traveling out of the country but would still provide a full breakdown within 48 hours.
True to his word, I woke up two days later to his response. In it he provided two separate swing analyses, one detailing my most detrimental faults and one detailing his proposed blueprint for how we would improve my golf swing over the coming months. In addition, he provided four separate videos, each describing in detail specific drills for me to incorporate into my practice. In total, this amounted to almost 45 minutes of detailed instruction, along with benchmarks that he wanted me to reach prior to our Zoom lesson in ten days. More importantly, he told me the things I’d be seeing happen as I combined proper mechanics with the many compensations I’d created, namely low pulls and heavy contact. This helped me take focus off the ball and on to accomplishing two relatively simple tasks.
As I embarked on the next 10 days of practice, I experienced the boosted confidence a lesson provides, followed by the unavoidable uncertainty that I was executing his instructions correctly. I think we’ve all experienced this, and the major pitfall this creates is wasting time between lessons practicing poorly. Rather than flounder, I reached out to him with my concerns and a few still photos. Within minutes he put my fears to bed by affirming I was on the right track. This is where I’ve found the online medium most valuable. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve forgot half of a conversation with my teacher, done a drill incorrectly for two weeks, or done too much of a good thing to the point I’d accomplished nothing at all.
Our Zoom lesson took place two days after Christmas and my excitement was palpable. After displaying that I’d accomplished my two major tasks and could execute them at will, we did normal lesson things that left me feeling that wonderful sense of optimism that maybe I was on the right track after all. My steep swing was a little shallower, my swing path was coming from the inside slightly, and I wasn’t flipping quite as much. Remember, progress is gradual, and improvement comes slowly, so little changes are big accomplishments. We made plans for the next two weeks of work and signed off.
And they lived happily ever after.
Well, maybe it’s too early to go there, but it’s good. Really good. As time goes on, I know there will be good days and bad days, but having the stable presence of a person I can reach out to, one that is invested in my success, is just what I need to stay focused and optimistic.
What are your feelings and experiences with online instruction? Is it something you’ve considered, or have you utilized it in the past? Please join in the conversation on the THP forums and let us know.
[QUOTE=”McLovin, post: 11470023, member: 23812″]
that is some excellent progress. as you get more comfortable and it feels more natural the speed will certainly come back. amazing work!
i’m with you on not feeling comfortable in your skin. i was never the guy who got intimidated playing in front of other people. but as i went down my own swing journey, that anxiety crept in and it still pops up more often than i’d like.
[/QUOTE]
This is why we drink.
Have had a bit of a resurgence in swing work for the last month. I wasn’t exactly doing nothing prior to that, but my motivation has been higher and time has freed up a bit. [USER=67512]@ryang13[/USER] reminded me it had been forever since I updated.
Swing work is such a mental grind. We build these brain/body connections over years and years and then hope to erase them and it just doesn’t work that way. It’s hard to accept. Also, it’s really hard to play golf making such huge changes. All too easy to slip back into comfortable (bad) habits just in the hopes of finding something familiar on the golf course.
Anyway, it took me so incredibly long to get to this spot. I can’t tell you how hard I worked on that lol. Unlike a lot of people, I wasn’t sucking the club in, but instead was losing it out in front of my body, getting disconnected within the first foot of my swing.
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That’s helped the top of my backswing a ton, as has the slow, repetitive work I’ve been doing. Top looks more like this at the moment.
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The goal, other than staying connected has been figuring out how to get some external rotation of my right shoulder in the downswing. I’ve been doing the opposite for so long and it’s very difficult to avoid. Here’s what it looks like (internal rotation aka the devil). Pardon the WFH hair.
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So, to get there we’ve finally settled on a drill and exercise that have started to work. Most of it has centered around a Tour Striker ball. The main goal is that, from the top of my backswing, I want to feel my elbows really squeezing together. This is an extremely exaggerated feeling. From there I want to get to P6 and be here. Sort of. Keep in mind this is an extreme exaggeration done really slowly – kind of like Justin Rose pump drills.
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That’s got me around here when I actually try to swing the golf club.
P5
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P6
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If we look where I was not long ago, lots of improvement. Club has already kicked out a long time ago and is about to be a steep, swipe turd.
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Here’s the actual swing/drill.
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That’s probably at 50-60% effort.
Golf is hard. This is hard. Such a foreign movement for me to learn to accept is how you hit a golf ball. Iv’e been really good about sticking to the drills/plan this month though and it’s getting better. Without the Tour Striker I’m much, much better than I was already. Not perfect, but better.
Great article [USER=1193]@Hawk[/USER] ! I’m just now seeing this and something I have been doing for just over a year now. I have been with my coach since November 2022 right before Thanksgiving. Online coaching has been phenomenal for me. My coach doesn’t just do online instruction, but does the fitness aspect of it as well. It is definitely a commitment and people need to realize that fixes are not overnight. I’ve been working with my instructor for quite some time and a lot of stuff just takes time to set in, and even then you still have to work at it. Hoping this continues to work out for you! Getting my coach online was one of the best decisions I could have made, not only for my game, but for my health. Of course, not all instructors are like that, but it’s nice to essentially get a two-fer.
[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 12095081, member: 1193″]
That’s probably at 50-60% effort.
[B]Golf is hard. This is hard.[/B] Such a foreign movement for me to learn to accept is how you hit a golf ball. Iv’e been really good about sticking to the drills/plan this month though and it’s getting better. Without the Tour Striker I’m much, much better than I was already. Not perfect, but better.
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Dude. I feel you. This rebuild has had so many ups and downs, and it’s been incredibly frustrating at times. Keep up the grind my man – good things are coming.
[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 12095081, member: 1193″]
That’s probably at 50-60% effort.
Golf is hard. This is hard. Such a foreign movement for me to learn to accept is how you hit a golf ball. Iv’e been really good about sticking to the drills/plan this month though and it’s getting better. Without the Tour Striker I’m much, much better than I was already. Not perfect, but better.
[/QUOTE]
I will add it’s an absolute grind all the time to improve. It’s been tough, but seeing some things happen and come to fruition is pretty cool. I’m one of the most impatient people I know and have to always remind myself that it’s a journey, not a race. Keep going man! I still have my rounds that it’s like I forgot everything, lol. But coach explained it to me is that it can’t always be good. If it was, we would all be scratch. So I try to keep that in mind if I have a bad round. My mental ability to just let it go is so much better than it used to be. Still gets me from time to time, but then I look at where I was, and where I’m at now and it hits a lot harder.
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This is kind of an exciting image for me. It’s an 8 iron using that above drill, so (to me) feels about 50-60% effort. That could be wrong. Maybe it’s 75% effort. I really don’t know what full effort will feel like with this new pattern and I have no clue what I’m going to eventually be capable of. I took the Tour Striker off for this swing after working with it for the previous swings.
Anyway, it’s a pretty shape and felt like I wasn’t really putting much physical exertion into this. Don’t pay too much attention to spin. It’s not going to spin a lot with this kind of speed.
**Here’s the question in my mind though – I asked my instructor too. While I’m 100% committing to the idea of slow and steady wins the race (in other words, I’m trying not to skip steps), I am really curious how I will eventually add speed.
How the hell am I going to teach myself to throw away my inclination to bring power to the swing by spinning out my chest/shoulders from the top. This move is VERY different than that and I’ve got this immediate instinct to swing the normal way as soon as the club hits the top. I’m considering adding a bit of a pause or just doing freezer drills until my hands fall off. Gotta kill that pattern.
Where will the power come from? is always on my mind. Being smaller and not overly powerful, I got used to a really long swing and other issues to generate power, but shortening the swing with my teacher always has me struggling because it feels like I won’t have any power, even though it isn’t true. Easier to do in the sim than out on course for sure. Still fight that long backswing when actually playing. Changing sucks in the short run for sure.
[QUOTE=”PiratePenguin, post: 12099551, member: 2635″]
Where will the power come from? is always on my mind. Being smaller and not overly powerful, I got used to a really long swing and other issues to generate power, but shortening the swing with my teacher always has me struggling because it feels like I won’t have any power, even though it isn’t true. Easier to do in the sim than out on course for sure. Still fight that long backswing when actually playing. Changing sucks in the short run for sure.
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I think it’s going to be more of a whip than a massive big-muscle thing. That’s my guess at least. Just utilizing leverage a little better. Glad I’m not the only one!
[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 12099561, member: 1193″]
I think it’s going to be more of a whip than a massive big-muscle thing. That’s my guess at least. Just utilizing leverage a little better. Glad I’m not the only one!
[/QUOTE]
I hope so for me, I ain’t got no big muscles! :ROFLMAO:
Great article [USER=1193]@Hawk[/USER]. I recently signed up for online lessons through Evolvr. So far so good and like what came through in your piece, I’m excited for the journey.
I’ve been meeting weekly with my instructor and we’ve changed things up a bit. Rather than sending me back a video recorded analysis and set of drills, we are doing a live analysis every other week. On the opposing weeks we are doing a live lesson. The difference is that on live analysis we are checking progress, setting goals, and preparing for the next couple weeks. On live lessons we look at how I’m interpreting those goals.
Lots of SLOW, SLOW reps.
Last night was a nice ego boost in that I’ve been doing things exactly how he wants me to. There was one tweak he wanted to make in the hopes that it would help me from kicking the club out from P6 to impact. Just want to feel like I’m posting up my chest in the follow through so I have a bit higher finish and the club exits a bit higher. I took the low left thing way too far. Video below of me executing the drill and pics to show the difference from what I submitted. Feeling pretty good.
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[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 12110814, member: 1193″]
I’ve been meeting weekly with my instructor and we’ve changed things up a bit. Rather than sending me back a video recorded analysis and set of drills, we are doing a live analysis every other week. On the opposing weeks we are doing a live lesson. The difference is that on live analysis we are checking progress, setting goals, and preparing for the next couple weeks. On live lessons we look at how I’m interpreting those goals.
Lots of SLOW, SLOW reps.
Last night was a nice ego boost in that I’ve been doing things exactly how he wants me to. There was one tweak he wanted to make in the hopes that it would help me from kicking the club out from P6 to impact. Just want to feel like I’m posting up my chest in the follow through so I have a bit higher finish and the club exits a bit higher. I took the low left thing way too far. Video below of me executing the drill and pics to show the difference from what I submitted. Feeling pretty good.
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[/QUOTE]
Thats a nice update.
As I work through some lessons myself, I like having the data to help guide me of what I am doing right and how much I am still doing wrong.
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 12110819, member: 3″]
Thats a nice update.
As I work through some lessons myself, I like having the data to help guide me of what I am doing right and how much I am still doing wrong.
[/QUOTE]
I’m seem to make the quickest progress mixing video and data. In real time, I can see if each swing is where I want it just based on ball flight and path readings using the ST+.
Actually, I take that back. Club speed captured by the ST+ has been a big thing too. Not so much in the sense that I’m trying to be fast, but I’m using it as a gauge of my progress. If I can do these slower swings at XXmph this week, my goal is to be able to bump that up 5mph by next week without it breaking down. Take away the data aspect and I have no way to gauge that.
Well, this is getting closer. Working on sitting into a little more of a squat at transition. This was a 90 yard PW from a stop/go drill and I knew before looking at the ST+ screen that it was a good swing. Still trying to figure out how to do this more often than once every 10 swings. Live lesson tonight, which usually leaves me feeling good. My instructor loves that I have the ST+ because I can give him immediate feedback on swings.
Pardon the bed head and sloppy apparel.
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One thing I’ve been stuck in for awhile now is a lot of stop and go drills. That’s been really good for feeling positions, but really bad for actually making it feel like I’m swinging a golf club. It’s all part of the process, but I mentioned it to my instructor leading up to our lesson.
So, this goes back to something I mentioned really early on with this thing. You gotta find somebody you can communicate with and who listens to you. So, we began the process of piecing it all together tonight and I gotta say, it feels good! Still very slow, but I tried adding a little speed and didn’t completely fall apart, so that’s progress.
Focus is driving the hands down, down, down, and the posting up hard off my left foot. Feels like my hands are down at knee level before I rotate through, but looks to be pretty on plane.
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Still working with the same guy from before?
[QUOTE=”PiratePenguin, post: 12139259, member: 2635″]
Still working with the same guy from before?
[/QUOTE]
I am. He’s been so flexible too.
We changed up things this year and it’s really working well. Basically, we meet once a week. I send him videos every other week, but instead of him sending back an analysis we meet via zoom and he explains my analysis to me so I can ask questions and demonstrate his suggested drills/feels. He records that and sends it back to me.
Then the other weeks we do zoom range lesson.
If it is YR, I started with him end of November. Just moved up to the once a week plan end of January. Won’t be fixed by Goat Cup, but making progress. ??
[QUOTE=”PiratePenguin, post: 12139381, member: 2635″]
If it is YR, I started with him end of November. Just moved up to the once a week plan end of January. Won’t be fixed by Goat Cup, but making progress. ??
[/QUOTE]
Thats awesome! It takes time. Lots and lots of time. Completely reprogramming all these things that are just baked in.
[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 12095079, member: 1193″]
Have had a bit of a resurgence in swing work for the last month. I wasn’t exactly doing nothing prior to that, but my motivation has been higher and time has freed up a bit. [USER=67512]@ryang13[/USER] reminded me it had been forever since I updated.
Swing work is such a mental grind. We build these brain/body connections over years and years and then hope to erase them and it just doesn’t work that way. It’s hard to accept. Also, it’s really hard to play golf making such huge changes. All too easy to slip back into comfortable (bad) habits just in the hopes of finding something familiar on the golf course.
Anyway, it took me so incredibly long to get to this spot. I can’t tell you how hard I worked on that lol. [B]Unlike a lot of people, I wasn’t sucking the club in, but instead was losing it out in front of my body, getting disconnected within the first foot of my swing.[/B]
[/QUOTE]
I feel this. That’s always been my main swing flaw. It seems 90% of golf instruction is geared toward inside and OTT. I’ve had many golf instructors tell me over the years that my backswing is what kills my consistency. I have to drop it down on plane at the top. If the stars align and I get to a good position at the top, many have said my downswing move is pretty solid and they wouldn’t change much.
But it’s impossible to be consistent when you get disconnected immediately and try to get reconnected later in the swing. 🙁 My golf swing is the eternal search for a repeatable backswing that doesn’t get me over plane and keeps me connected.
You’re definitely putting in the grind that’s going to pay massive dividends.
[QUOTE=”mantan, post: 12139894, member: 51648″]
I feel this. That’s always been my main swing flaw. It seems 90% of golf instruction is geared toward inside and OTT. I’ve had many golf instructors tell me over the years that my backswing is what kills my consistency. I have to drop it down on plane at the top. If the stars align and I get to a good position at the top, many have said my downswing move is good.
But it’s impossible to be consistent when you get disconnected immediately and try to get reconnected later in the swing. 🙁
You’re definitely putting in the grind that’s going to pay massive dividends.
[/QUOTE]
Oh my god. You’re speaking my language lol. It’s completely the opposite of the fault 90% of people have.
You can fix it though. Takes a ton of time. You’ll see in most of my videos I pause at P2 and look at the camera (screen faces me). That’s the only way I’ve figured out how to self regulate. At this point, I am able to execute without the pause, but I still do that at least 50% of the time or more when I practice. Can’t get enough reps.
[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 12139905, member: 1193″]
Oh my god. You’re speaking my language lol. It’s completely the opposite of the fault 90% of people have.
You can fix it though. Takes a ton of time. You’ll see in most of my videos I pause at P2 and look at the camera (screen faces me). That’s the only way I’ve figured out how to self regulate. At this point, I am able to execute without the pause, but I still do that at least 50% of the time or more when I practice. Can’t get enough reps.
[/QUOTE]
For sure. There were times I swore the club was so far inside that my clubhead would hit someone behind me…then the camera showed I was still a touch outside. lol.
The problem with a lot of instruction, online or not, is the instructor tries to fit the golfer into a swing, and not fit the swing into the golfer. Teaching a 65 year old the same swing you teach a 25 year old is probably a waste of time. Some golfers have limitations where they’re physically unable to do what the instructor wants. So, instead of teaching the same swing to everyone, teach a swing that takes into consideration a student’s limitations.
[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 12139244, member: 1193″]
One thing I’ve been stuck in for awhile now is a lot of stop and go drills. That’s been really good for feeling positions, but really bad for actually making it feel like I’m swinging a golf club. It’s all part of the process, but I mentioned it to my instructor leading up to our lesson.
So, this goes back to something I mentioned really early on with this thing. You gotta find somebody you can communicate with and who listens to you. So, we began the process of piecing it all together tonight and I gotta say, it feels good! Still very slow, but I tried adding a little speed and didn’t completely fall apart, so that’s progress.
Focus is driving the hands down, down, down, and the posting up hard off my left foot. Feels like my hands are down at knee level before I rotate through, but looks to be pretty on plane.
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Looks really good here brother. Keep up the grind, this will be worth it!
[QUOTE=”ryang13, post: 12140041, member: 67512″]
Looks really good here brother. Keep up the grind, this will be worth it!
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Thanks! I’m sure you know, but there are LOTS of ups and downs. It’s getting close though. Realistically, I’m hoping next year is when it’s all there for me.
[QUOTE=”Sean, post: 12139979, member: 794″]
The problem with a lot of instruction, online or not, is the instructor tries to fit the golfer into a swing, and not fit the swing into the golfer. Teaching a 65 year old the same swing you teach a 25 year old is probably a waste of time. Some golfers have limitations where they’re physically unable to do what the instructor wants. So, instead of teaching the same swing to everyone, teach a swing that takes into consideration a student’s limitations.
[/QUOTE]
Which is why it is important to talk to the instructor ahead of time, get feedback from prior students, etc and see what their philosophy around this is. I think more and more modern teachers are moving away from the “one swing” model and working with matchups and physical limitations, taking Titleist Performance Institute training classes on physical limitations, ground forces, etc.
[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 12140067, member: 1193″]
Thanks! I’m sure you know, but there are LOTS of ups and downs. It’s getting close though. Realistically, I’m hoping next year is when it’s all there for me.
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Still very much involved in those ups and downs, but I’m pretty thankful for the bit more comfort in assessing whatever issues arise and working toward a fix/path forward. When does your season typically start there?
[QUOTE=”ryang13, post: 12140199, member: 67512″]
Still very much involved in those ups and downs, but I’m pretty thankful for the bit more comfort in assessing whatever issues arise and working toward a fix/path forward. When does your season typically start there?
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Kind of a weird winter. We had 2 feet of snow on the ground three weeks ago, but it was in the 40’s and 50’s after that. Could play now if I wanted. Truth be told, being on the course is the last thing I need to do right now though. Too much pressure to revert. I’ll be in TX in mid-April and am going to consider that the start for me. Not expecting a lot, but hopeful I can at least just get around the course and commit to the swing. The contact will 100% be better if do. Right now it’s just slow. I know that will come as my comfort level and muscle memory kicks in.
[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 12099374, member: 1193″]
How the hell am I going to teach myself to throw away my inclination to bring power to the swing by spinning out my chest/shoulders from the top.
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Preach. [USER=53737]@OldandStiff[/USER] and I talked about my tendency to do this (and others). I know to keep my back to the target as long as possible. I’ve spent hours working on slow movements to exaggerate the feel. When I remember to do it, I can hit a good ball.
[QUOTE=”Parrot, post: 12140232, member: 48815″]
Preach. [USER=53737]@OldandStiff[/USER] and I talked about my tendency to do this (and others). I know to keep my back to the target as long as possible. I’ve spent hours working on slow movements to exaggerate the feel. When I remember to do it, I can hit a good ball.
[/QUOTE]
The right feeling could not be more opposite of my instincts lol. Last night we worked on adding power from using the ground. Ultra slow (back to the target like you said) until I got the club in the right place and then just exploding with the lower body.
[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 12140237, member: 1193″]
The right feeling could not be more opposite of my instincts lol.
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My instinct is to try to rotate my hips through and I let my hips slide forward and then open rather posting against the left side. When I have a feel of right rear pocket back on the takeaway, left rear pocket back to start the downswing, I feel more connected and get much better results. It’s funny that I can remember that thought to type but it completely goes out of mind when I’m over the ball. More reps, more reps, more reps.
[QUOTE=”Parrot, post: 12140451, member: 48815″]
My instinct is to try to rotate my hips through and I let my hips slide forward and then open rather posting against the left side. When I have a feel of right rear pocket back on the takeaway, left rear pocket back to start the downswing, I feel more connected and get much better results. It’s funny that I can remember that thought to type but it completely goes out of mind when I’m over the ball. More reps, more reps, more reps.
[/QUOTE]
We kind of have the same cause, but our effects are a little different. I’m hoping eventually I just forget what the old swing feels like.
I am a bit obsessed with this still frame from my post-lesson practice.
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To give a little perspective, this is pretty much always my post impact position. Much more opened up. Gives me a little hope.
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Ups and downs and ups and downs. I feel like if I wasn’t so incredibly stubborn I would have given this up so long ago ?
I wanted to talk about something, somewhat directed to myself, about rabbit-holing and not communicating with your instructor. We’ve spent immeasurable effort in changing my swing from the ground up. I don’t want tweaks, I don’t want to “work with what I’ve got” or any of that crap. I want a fundamentally sound swing. Period.
Part of that has been exaggerating the opposite of what feels “right” to me. History has shown this works really well for me. I was ultra cupped at the top of the backswing, exaggerated the hell out of a bowed feeling forever and now flat feels natural. I was leaving the club away from my body in the takeaway, so we exaggerated sucking it inside. Now I’m where I want to be there. It works for me.
Anyway, as part of my downswing change, we are doing drills and drills and drills. Last week, we began using a new one that started actually feeling like a swing. Basically, full back swing, hands drop slowly (towards my right pocket) without my shoulders rotating, and then when they are so low I feel like my knuckles are going to drag on the ground, I post up hard off my left side and voila – I pivot and the ball just gets in the way. It’s a wild feeling – completely unfamiliar. It was uncomfortable and awkward, but impact felt very different in a good way.
However, as I looked at video, I noticed the club was well behind my hands at P6. This results in a pretty big push and I’m ok with that. Buuuuut, if you look at any high level swing, the club is basically on the hands, parallel with the target line here. You can see what I’m talking about in the picture below – club is behind my hands.
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So, like an idiot, I rabbit holed social media and came up with ALL KINDS of ideas to get myself where I thought I should be. What I didn’t do was send a message to my instructor saying, “Hey, the club is really behind me at P6. Thoughts?” If I’d done that I would have had an answer within a few hours. But, instead I got myself ALL messed up. Started thinking I was ready to full swing with these ideas I’d curated online. Disaster lol.
I had my bi-weekly check in where we go over video I’ve submitted (screen caps were are from that video and were taken before I self destructed). He’s all excited to talk to me about how I’m right where I should be and this is awesome and I’m just the opposite. I’m complaining about losing “it” and tell him the whole story.
He says (paraphrased), “Ryan, our plan was to start working on full swing in a week. This is supposed to look exaggerated. You have to learn what it feels like to delay your upper body, not kick the club out in front, and where your speed will come from.”
He goes on to say, “You need to show some discipline here”. ???
Sigh. Lesson learned.
He goes on to pause my face-on swings at impact and finish to show me that even though the club is so behind me, my impact and finish positions are basically night-and-day improved from where I was. He says it will only get better.
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Kind of like when my wife’s primary care doctor forbade her from ever looking at WebMD. :ROFLMAO:
So hard to work on those intermediate steps where you know it isn’t “perfect” and is resulting in blocks or something, but only because you haven’t added the next piece of the puzzle yet. Takes a lot of willpower to be willing to see “bad” ball flight over and over while trying to ingrain that new move.
[QUOTE=”PiratePenguin, post: 12152565, member: 2635″]
Kind of like when my wife’s primary care doctor forbade her from ever looking at WebMD. :ROFLMAO:
So hard to work on those intermediate steps where you know it isn’t “perfect” and is resulting in blocks or something, but only because you haven’t added the next piece of the puzzle yet. Takes a lot of willpower to be willing to see “bad” ball flight over and over while trying to ingrain that new move.
[/QUOTE]
Funny thing is, the ball flight didn’t totally bother me. Won’t act like I wasn’t trying to think of ways to close the face a little more, but my path was WAY in to out as you can imagine.
I was struggling with it not looking like I thought it should. I really should have just asked how it should look.
Guilty as charged about reading a chapter ahead in my own journey as well, I got a few stern but laughing warnings about staying away from Youtube ?. Keep it up my man ?
[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 12152541, member: 1193″]
Ups and downs and ups and downs.
Last week, we began using a new one that started actually feeling like a swing. Basically, full back swing, hands drop slowly (towards my right pocket) without my shoulders rotating, and then when they are so low I feel like my knuckles are going to drag on the ground, I post up hard off my left side and voila – I pivot and the ball just gets in the way. It’s a wild feeling – completely unfamiliar. It was uncomfortable and awkward, but impact felt very different in a good way.
However, as I looked at video, I noticed the club was well behind my hands at P6. This results in a pretty big push and I’m ok with that. Buuuuut, if you look at any high level swing, the club is basically on the hands, parallel with the target line here. You can see what I’m talking about in the picture below – club is behind my hands.
He goes on to pause my face-on swings at impact and finish to show me that even though the club is so behind me, my impact and finish positions are basically night-and-day improved..
[/QUOTE]
These are excellent observations, especially lowering, or lowered, hands near the trail pocket because that’s the delivery staging area for you, and many greats that played from there. For now, don’t fret too much about the club being behind the hands- just keep drilling starting with club more ‘on the hands’ at the staging area and learn to pivot [I]everything[/I] to the other side and when successful the club finds the proper line while weight is getting off the trail side.
Speaking of your ups and downs. It’s up, down, then move, move it all is all you have to move.
I scheduled a lesson for last night not knowing I was going to be in the throes of a mystery virus all week. I ended up just attending anyway, because it’s very easy to miss a week and end up in YouTube loopholes when you’re a mental midget. Plus, last night was the night we earmarked to begin a transition to a full swing from all this drill work. It’s funny, because I think I’d placed a bit more importance on this lesson than he had. I was expecting him to say “this is the magic move that is going to tie it all together into a full swing” and that really wasn’t the case.
Instead, he basically said he wanted me to keep the same feels as we’ve been drilling and start full swinging at 30/70 ratio, meaning for every 3 full swings I should be doing our blueprint drill 7 times. I should be videoing these swings and being really methodical about how I’m holding together the new concepts and make adjustments as needed. I’ll submit videos to him in four days and we’ll go over them on Friday. At that time we can discuss necessary adjustments. Basically, he wants to give me a little time off the leash to see where I’m at instead of filling my head with thoughts.
What’s a blueprint drill? It’s a concept we’ve used since the beginning, though the blueprint has evolved as I’ve been able to solidify changes. Basically, it’s where I go back to as a baseline. My swing in its most rudimentary form. It’s slower and you can see some hesitation here and there. I’m trying to feel my hands get low, low while keeping my back at the target. Want the club in front of me in the downswing. Post up on the lead leg to finish high. A few weeks ago, it was pump drills from the top, but now I can get my hands/arms down in a fluid motion (example of how it changes).
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Another reminder that if you want to completely change your swing it’s going to take time, time, time. The good news is that this approach is undeniably working and I can see it in video I took of a few full swings post-lesson. My shoulders aren’t spinning out at transition, and I’m not tossing the club out over the top. Instead, my hands are moving down and getting much deeper than they ever have in the downswing. It’s far from perfect, but as close as I’ve ever been.
My biggest takeaway from watching the video is that I’m loose at the top when trying to swing at full speed. I just need to find a way to quiet my mind and reaction a bit there. I think it’s attainable.
So far, I’ve maintained the discipline requested of me to full swing at 30/70 ratio. It’s harder than it sounds, because if those three swings don’t look the way you want them to it’s extremely tempting to try and iron it out. However, I really started to see the wisdom in the request yesterday.
I worked in 10 ball blocks to force the 7/3 routine. After 7 blueprint drills, my first three swings were nowhere near where I wanted them. I was able to see the breakdown pretty well in video, so that made me focus on specific parts of the transition in my next 7 blueprints. As I worked through 50 balls (had about 30 minutes yesterday between work and chauffeuring) I started seeing gradual improvement with every round.
This was my last swing of the session. It’s NOT perfect. Probably not even good, but the club ever so slightly shallowed, my shoulders didn’t spin out, I didn’t slam my right shoulder internal at transition, and I delivered the club from the inside. All of those things are big deals. I recognize that there is a ton of work to do, but am also excited to see some hints of progress in my first week of really turning this into a swing.
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[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 12164519, member: 1193″]
I scheduled a lesson for last night not knowing I was going to be in the throes of a mystery virus all week. I ended up just attending anyway, because it’s very easy to miss a week and end up in YouTube loopholes when you’re a mental midget. Plus, last night was the night we earmarked to begin a transition to a full swing from all this drill work. It’s funny, because I think I’d placed a bit more importance on this lesson than he had. I was expecting him to say “this is the magic move that is going to tie it all together into a full swing” and that really wasn’t the case.
Instead, he basically said he wanted me to keep the same feels as we’ve been drilling and start full swinging at 30/70 ratio, meaning for every 3 full swings I should be doing our blueprint drill 7 times. I should be videoing these swings and being really methodical about how I’m holding together the new concepts and make adjustments as needed. I’ll submit videos to him in four days and we’ll go over them on Friday. At that time we can discuss necessary adjustments. Basically, he wants to give me a little time off the leash to see where I’m at instead of filling my head with thoughts.
What’s a blueprint drill? It’s a concept we’ve used since the beginning, though the blueprint has evolved as I’ve been able to solidify changes. Basically, it’s where I go back to as a baseline. My swing in its most rudimentary form. It’s slower and you can see some hesitation here and there. I’m trying to feel my hands get low, low while keeping my back at the target. Want the club in front of me in the downswing. Post up on the lead leg to finish high. A few weeks ago, it was pump drills from the top, but now I can get my hands/arms down in a fluid motion (example of how it changes).
[ATTACH type=”full”]9245043[/ATTACH]
Another reminder that if you want to completely change your swing it’s going to take time, time, time. The good news is that this approach is undeniably working and I can see it in video I took of a few full swings post-lesson. My shoulders aren’t spinning out at transition, and I’m not tossing the club out over the top. Instead, my hands are moving down and getting much deeper than they ever have in the downswing. It’s far from perfect, but as close as I’ve ever been.
My biggest takeaway from watching the video is that I’m loose at the top when trying to swing at full speed. I just need to find a way to quiet my mind and reaction a bit there. I think it’s attainable.
[/QUOTE]
Time, setbacks, and maybe a sprinkle or two of some frustration ? . Good on you for sticking with this my man, it’s not easy by any stretch of the imagination, but it seems like your on a good path right now. Keep it up brother ?
Shallowing is a four letter word. 🙂
[QUOTE=”PiratePenguin, post: 12168570, member: 2635″]
Shallowing is a four letter word. 🙂
[/QUOTE]
I feel like I’m beginning to grasp the concept on more than an intellectual level right now. The biggest key for me is to give myself enough time in transition. Have to really stifle my instincts and it’s not easy. It’s so difficult to do anything resembling thought during that process. It’s like a million bees buzzing around me and I have to swat the right one.
Had to do my normal Monday lesson last Friday night, with a quick check in yesterday. Moving this a full swing has been a challenge no doubt. Everything in my soul tries to swing the old way at full speed, but there are definite improvements.
The focus this week was centering my pivot a bit more. I’ve always struggled with weight shift, but like ALWAYS, my perception of the goal is rarely the goal. Basically, I was getting too far on my left side, too deep in my turn, and my left leg was very soft, making it next to impossible to utilize the ground and pivot better in the downswing.
Club is more in front of me, so I can’t cheat shallowing much. Hence, it’s been a challenge to get where I want to.
Pretty easy to see the difference pre and post lesson. Hard to get perspective, but the ball is actually much farther forward in the “after” impact photo too. Trying to encourage myself to keep turning.
Again, it felt SO awkward and weird at first, but I managed to get over that pretty quickly.
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And a swing I sent to my instructor last night. I was pretty happy with this one. Not Uber-shallow, but right on plane for the most part. This one was the first one where it felt “right”. Still not perfect or great or even good, but better. Always just trying to get it better.
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I lost a long rambling post, which I’m sure will disappoint everyone. I’m going to try to summarize this shorter, but it’s hard.
I won’t say I figured something out, because I think ‘aha’ moments are short lived and fleeting, but this is more the product of a couple weeks of work, analyzing video, etc.
I was really struggling to shallow in full swings in similar manner to how I was able to in rehearsals/drills. Looking at video I noticed I was getting my shoulder internally rotated and the shaft was pitching really steep unless I absolutely focused on slamming the club down behind me. That works, but it’s not really a golf swing.
I went back to basics. Noticed my takeaway and backswing were too flat, which makes it hard to stay shallow. Almost like I was trying to preset a shallowing movement, but that’s not really how it works. I need to be more vertical early, which allows the club to let gravity have some influence. Then I just sort of have to let it happen. Letting it happen is hard, but it’s so much easier than forcing it to happen if that makes sense.
This:
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Instead of this:
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Thanks for sharing this stuff. The path to improvement is hard. Shallowing can be difficult based on limitations in your body. For example my right arm and shoulder won’t rotate the way all the shallowing people want you to. I can try all I want but my body just won’t get into the positions. Having played with you though I don’t think you have those limitations.
I definitely agree on your thoughts about the back swing. If you get the club inside and flat there is no option but to come over the top. Keeping the club outside the hands on the way back and a bit more vertical gives room for the club to swing under the backswing path which has to be more shallow.
The end result is a movement like this. Still a bit stiff (and not quite a full backswing), but every instinct in my body and brain are telling me to the opposite of what I’m allowing to happen in this swing ?
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[QUOTE=”Chef23, post: 12207843, member: 48542″]
Thanks for sharing this stuff. The path to improvement is hard. Shallowing can be difficult based on limitations in your body. For example my right arm and shoulder won’t rotate the way all the shallowing people want you to. I can try all I want but my body just won’t get into the positions. Having played with you though I don’t think you have those limitations.
I definitely agree on your thoughts about the back swing. If you get the club inside and flat there is no option but to come over the top. Keeping the club outside the hands on the way back and a bit more vertical gives room for the club to swing under the backswing path which has to be more shallow.
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Thanks for reading! I definitely have the physical ability thankfully. It’s getting closer. I’m just glad I am able to accept the speed at which this all occurs. It’s a slow, slow process.