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Consistency on Tour

Tadashi70

Tadashi70

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With Rickie winning the Players and his 'over rated" tag falling off. I am wondering what people need to see from tour players in order for them no be perceived as overrated. What do we need to see in order to consider a golfer a top golfer?

If Reed doesn't win a gain this year, will he be considered a flash in the pan. If Jordan doesn't find his winning ways after the missed cut at the Players, will we brush him a side?

We have these standards that I don't understand. to win one of the 40+ plus events is an accomplishment in itself but that doesn't seem to be enough. I mean, 144 guys tee it up on most weeks. There are 100 guys in each field that have not won an event and 44 that have. But the ones that have don't win often enough. The fields are so deep how can we hold these guys to such high standards. I think we as consumer are starving for another TW but sorry that will not happen again in our lifetime. We get a crop of guys that will more than likely finish with high teens in wins and a major or two over their career. That iss the tour today, at least that is how I see it.

Why does it seem that I am on an island with very few that feel this way. Why have placed these goals on our golfing heros? Why are we not happy with just watching them play well week in a week out. Why do the lose favor if they don't win? Most tour player make their year over a 3 week span of time. That is three weeks over the course of 52. That is 3 weeks among 144 golfer each week. They make 80% of their coin for the year during that stretch. the rest of time they maintain. The superstars extend that time or double it. But no one is on point every week nore should they be expected to be. I feel we hold these guys to too high of standard.

What say you?
 
I tend to agree with a lot of what you said there Freddie.

I like the parity of the current Tour.
 
What I don't understand is how Rickie was listed as overrated? Who was rating him anyway? He had top 10 finishes in every major last year which is what got him so highly ranked in the OWGR's anyway. I think Rickie to start his career might have been the biggest under achiever in terms of wins because of what was expected out of him, but I never thought he was overrated.

I think you should be ranked based on what you can consistently see out of that player. If you're the worlds number 1, you need to consistently compete for wins, but as the worlds #13, you're just fighting for top 10's/Top 15's to keep that rank...which I feel like Rickie did.
 
I agree with everything Freddie has said.
 
Because athletes are marketed as "Superstars" and that label over history was given to the absolute best and dominant.
 
I will ask it like this Freddie. If you watch Johnny Manziel put up 75 yards passing and throw 3 picks, is/was he overrated? I mean he would be consistently playing in a league full of parity and one of the best QBs in the world (generally speaking and just using a bad starting QB from last year as the totem pole)
 
I actually love the parity as well, seeing fresh faces try to break thru for their first win is awesome to me. That being said, the general public is so quick to want to tag someone the next Tiger or whatever that they mainstream media latches on to these guys and that's what they report. I still believe that the cream always rises to the top in big events so we'll still be seeing tons of Rory and Jordan and others but what I love to see is the Kisner's and guys that nobody has heard of before popping onto the scene late on Sunday in a big event. These guys have a story too, while it may not be as widely known as Rory's or someone else it's still a hell of a journey to get to where they're at and to see guys like that captalize on their limited chances is awesome as far as I'm concerend!

I think the PGA Tour is as healthy as ever, we don't NEED a Tiger Wood dominated tour anymore....but man the mainstream public sure wants it!
 
Consistency on Tour

I think we saw TW dominate so much, we were trained to think any golfer with a semblance of superior golfing skills would do the same. The media is constantly looking for the next TW to make their jobs easier & should be appreciating the guys we have before us.

The fields are deep & are the best in recent memory top to bottom. Right now the only player I can say is dominate or close to it is Rory based on his majors.
 
I really didn't understand how Fowler was overrated after last year. Prior to his great run in the majors last year, I may have considered him to be overrated due to the marketing hype that seemed to surround him while his results on course were nothing too impressive. However, last year he really showed me something. I had a hard time putting much into that survey.
 
I think a win every other year with 1 or two majors peppered in is the recipe to be considered a "succesful" PGA Tour player. Superstar? At least 3 wins every two years is a requirement with a major every 4 years on average.
 
JB said:
I will ask it like this Freddie. If you watch Johnny Manziel put up 75 yards passing and throw 3 picks, is/was he overrated? I mean he would be consistently playing in a league full of parity and one of the best QBs in the world (generally speaking and just using a bad starting QB from last year as the totem pole)
Click to expand...
Bingo... Superstars are SUPERstars because they beat the best of the best...over and over again. Doesn't mean everyone else sucks. But if you want to be the "top" of your sport...you have to beat the top of your sport.
 
Its a sliding scale. The more a golfer is marketed - the higher the expectations are. This is why Rickie and Ian Poulter are categorized as overrated. One win a year is pretty damn good in my mind to be considered elite, i.e. Dustin Johnson.
 
Hawk said:
I tend to agree with a lot of what you said there Freddie.

I like the parity of the current Tour.
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The parity makes for fun leaderboards each and every week, and I like not having a clear cut favorite, keeps it interesting for sure.
 
A lot of it is obviously exposure. If you're a recognizable player and face of a brand, the expectations are high. Rickie hasn't been meeting those expectations which, whether he set them or not, is to win.

Dufner and Kuchar are a couple names I would say may also be called 'overrated'. They've had some amazing seasons in the past and they're current play does not match those. However, they're not brand ambassadors and thus don't have those expectations. Kuchar would probably be the best drawn comparison, as he was supposed to be amazing. Then struggled way early in his career to only have a recent resurgence the past few seasons.
 
I've watched a lot of PGA Tour golf over the last year. It seems like every week the announcers are looking for the next big thing. I feel like if Kisner had won the playoff, that's what we would be hearing today. When you watch one of the younger guys put it together like Day, Speight, Rose, McIlory, or Johnson it's hard not to get caught up in the moment, because they all have aspects to their games that are just astounding and it almost makes you think, 'why don't they do it every week?' I think the answer is golf is hard, even for the best in the world. The other thing is, the fields now seem incredibly deep right now. I agree in that we need to have reasonable expectations for these guys.
 
IMO, the talking heads at the golf channel and the major golf publications are who are blowing this out of proportion. It's easier for the media to focus on the negative and pick people apart. I think the golf fan is loving what is happening in golf right now. I know that I am. I didn't realize that someone could be overrated by finishing in the top 5 in every 2014 major. Yesterday's finish was incredible. And, I hope it's a preview of the near and not-to-distant future. I didn't need Rory or Tiger yesterday. I had 3 screens and my smartphone going while watching yesterday's back nine.

Anyone who think a 15 month stretch like the below is "overrated" needs to see a psychiatrist.


5/10/2015THE PLAYERS ChampionshipP1
5/3/2015WGC-Cadillac Match PlayT9
4/12/2015Masters TournamentT12
3/8/2015WGC-Cadillac ChampionshipT12
12/7/2014Hero World ChallengeT6
11/9/2014WGC-HSBC ChampionsT3
9/28/2014Ryder Cup--
9/14/2014TOUR Championship8
9/7/2014BMW ChampionshipT4
9/1/2014Deutsche Bank ChampionshipT23
8/24/2014The BarclaysT9
8/10/2014PGA ChampionshipT3
8/3/2014WGC-Bridgestone T8
7/20/2014The Open ChampionshipT2
6/15/2014U.S. OpenT2
6/8/2014FedEx St. Jude ClassicT13
4/13/2014Masters TournamentT5
4/6/2014Shell Houston Open6
2/23/2014WGC-Match Play3
 
we see the amount of "championships" in other sports reflect how good/great someone is. I am on your side that there are a lot of players who don't win or win often but complete every tournament.

Part of it is media hype on/around players and how they put out stories. The what have you done lately mentality.
 
I never thought Rickie was overrated. I think you hit it on the button, being 'overrated' is a function of expectations. Rickie was in the top 5 of every major last year. I call that pretty awesome golf.

I think people expect to see lots of players win multiple wins per year. I'm more into looking for people who get multiple top-10s with at least one win.

~Rock
 
For me anyone with 3 or more PGA Tour wins is certainly someone of note on tour.

Looking at the all time win list, anyone with 5 or more is impressive. Here is the active players with 5 wins:

Mark Wilson, Watney, Jimmy Walker, Pettersson, Mayfair, Donald, Daly, Ben Crane, Jonathan Byrd.

6 wins:
Sabbatini, Olazabal, Mahan, Harrington, Haas, Cink

7:
Bubba Watson, Sneds, Rose, Kuchar, Goosen

8:
Weir, Ogilvy, Sergio, Choi

9:
Dustin Johnson, Appleby.

10:
Rory

11:
Adam Scott, Zach Johnson

12:
Stricker, Leonard

13:
Toms, Duval

17:
Furyk

19:
Els

42:
Phil

79:
Tiger
 
FWIW, on that list, the only ones 35 & under are:

5 Watney34
6 Mahan, Haas33,33
7 Sneds, Rose35,35
8 Sergio35
9 D Johnson31
10 Rory26
11 Adam Scott35
 
Bad example, because I thought he was way overrated when he was drafted.

But a quarterback with those stats would be cconsidered bad and not even rated in my opinion.
JB said:
I will ask it like this Freddie. If you watch Johnny Manziel put up 75 yards passing and throw 3 picks, is/was he overrated? I mean he would be consistently playing in a league full of parity and one of the best QBs in the world (generally speaking and just using a bad starting QB from last year as the totem pole)
Click to expand...
 
Tadashi70 said:
Bad example, because I thought he was way overrated when he was drafted.

But a quarterback with those stats would be cconsidered bad and not even rated in my opinion.
Click to expand...

But based on your first post, how could we say he was overrated? He was one of the best in the world at his position and despite not winning, he was in a league filled with parity where on any given Sunday a team could win.

I think the example is actually pretty fair. FWIW, I thought he was overrated too, but parallels are there.
 
cpljohnst said:
For me anyone with 3 or more PGA Tour wins is certainly someone of note on tour.

Looking at the all time win list, anyone with 5 or more is impressive. Here is the active players with 5 wins:

Mark Wilson, Watney, Jimmy Walker, Pettersson, Mayfair, Donald, Daly, Ben Crane, Jonathan Byrd.

6 wins:
Sabbatini, Olazabal, Mahan, Harrington, Haas, Cink
Click to expand...

And how many of those 2 win lists are even talked about?
 
Everyone wants to talk about how Rickie Fowler's hype never matched his game and I'm just wondering how so? He's 26, been on 2 Ryder cups, top 15 in the world, has 2 wins, and the thing I think is most important his tour card has never in jeopardy. Look at all the guys that didn't even hit their stride until their 30s, snedecker, walker, kisner, kutchar, and the list goes on.

Luke Donald made it to world #1 on top 10s, so I see nothing wrong so I think Fowler will be just fine.


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Rickie Fowler is an interesting case to me because he is the sponsored face of Cobra/Puma. I know they have others, but he is the one that is synonymous with the brand in a way that only a few of his peers are. TW and Rory - Nike, Phil - Callaway, Spieth - UA are the only ones I am immediately thinking of at that marketing level. I say that to say that he isn't being portrayed as Average Joe Tour Pro. So while his consistency is nice, I think the lack of wins (before yesterday) was notable for him in a sixth full-time tour season, particularly since he was putting himself into position so often, but never coming out on top.

With the money these guys are making (especially when they reach Top 30 or so and aren't just trying to keep their card), I think they would tell you that they would rather have the wins than consistent top 10s. Is it hard to do, absolutely, it always has been, and the depth now makes it even more so.
 
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