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Who's going to putt with flag in ???

J.B. Cobb III said:
MGS released a story about should put with the pin in or not? Pretty interesting. If you don't have the time to read it, I will save you the trouble. They say yes.
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MGS? 6char
 
I'm putting with the flag in. Much better results. Not that I hole more putts, but on longer putts I can better visualize the area around the hole (<5 feet) with the flag in. My mate from New Zealand can't get used to it.
 
Well today was the first day I have ever played a competitive round with the flag in. Played in the Friday game as a 5some and the others members wanted to play with the flag in. It was weird and I felt like I was just messing around. But I had low metal and team games going on. Not sure I like it but may have to get used to it when playing with this group.
 
I've played 3 club competition rounds so far this year and the new rule has worked a treat. Seems to be a lot more ready golf played around the greens.
There's been several occasions where one or two players are taking long putts from the front of the green while someone else is heading around the back to chip on, and the putters can have a go and get close without waiting for the pin to be tended, unless they want it tended.
Also really speeds things up if someone sticks one in close as they can knock it in without shagging around with the pin and then get back out of the way.
 
TdotCdot said:
I've played 3 club competition rounds so far this year and the new rule has worked a treat. Seems to be a lot more ready golf played around the greens.
There's been several occasions where one or two players are taking long putts from the front of the green while someone else is heading around the back to chip on, and the putters can have a go and get close without waiting for the pin to be tended, unless they want it tended.
Also really speeds things up if someone sticks one in close as they can knock it in without shagging around with the pin and then get back out of the way.
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And that much smoother, more efficient greens flow in general is what I anticipate most should find to be happening. Hence the biggest reason for the change. Everyone can just take care of their own greens business a tad more efficiently.
 
TdotCdot said:
I've played 3 club competition rounds so far this year and the new rule has worked a treat. Seems to be a lot more ready golf played around the greens.
There's been several occasions where one or two players are taking long putts from the front of the green while someone else is heading around the back to chip on, and the putters can have a go and get close without waiting for the pin to be tended, unless they want it tended.
Also really speeds things up if someone sticks one in close as they can knock it in without shagging around with the pin and then get back out of the way.
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I support all of the logic in this post for the rule change.
 
I've played all my rounds so far this year with the pin in. It has writhed out well so far and seems faster. Like the previous poster, I enjoy being able to play ready golf and putting while someone else is still off the green.
 
So yesterday we played the round without pulling the flag and honestly it felt like we really weren’t playing a serious round of golf. Felt like we were just screwing around and not really focusing. Probably won’t do it again unless my playing partners have a preference of keeping it in.


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I will probably just do whatever the rest of the group is doing. I think it is probably an advantage, but it's not enough to change a handicap and I think whatever the group is doing is fair for everyone. I also don't get bent out of shape easily so it won't bother me to do it differently from one round to the next.
 
DataDude said:
I will probably just do whatever the rest of the group is doing. I think it is probably an advantage, but it's not enough to change a handicap and I think whatever the group is doing is fair for everyone. I also don't get bent out of shape easily so it won't bother me to do it differently from one round to the next.
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Still got months around here before I will really know, but I suspect that'll be my approach too. I have always putted with the flag in when playing solo, but then I don't really go through the normal routine. It will likely feel a bit different at first, I'm sure I can adapt either way eventually.
 
Alez367 said:
So yesterday we played the round without pulling the flag and honestly it felt like we really weren’t playing a serious round of golf. Felt like we were just screwing around and not really focusing. Probably won’t do it again unless my playing partners have a preference of keeping it in.


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how about just embrace it and get use to it while playing just as seriously as before and I bet most anything will take little time.
 
DataDude said:
I will probably just do whatever the rest of the group is doing. I think it is probably an advantage, but it's not enough to change a handicap and I think whatever the group is doing is fair for everyone. I also don't get bent out of shape easily so it won't bother me to do it differently from one round to the next.
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you know whats fair for everyone? And I mean everyone on the course, not just the local group?....is a smoother flow at the greens in general. Which seems to be what some are beginning to notice.
 
I'm surprised by how many amateur golfers still don't know about the rule change. My playing partner knew about the rule change only because I had told him about it in previous rounds. On the first hole Saturday I had a 15 foot putt and one of the other players was off the green. I putted while he was walking to his ball and he wanted to give me a 2 stroke penalty for putting with the flag in. A quick google search fixed that.
 
It finally happened today ... I hit a short putt dead centre and it hit the flag and jumped out :(. ... The flags here are quite chunky .. so I think maybe that was the issue. Still sux though.

Have also noticed you don't get the sound of the ball dropping into the cup ... Is that an issue, not really but it could be for some.

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chriso97 said:
It finally happened today ... I hit a short putt dead centre and it hit the flag and jumped out :(. ... The flags here are quite chunky .. so I think maybe that was the issue. Still sux though.

Have also noticed you don't get the sound of the ball dropping into the cup ... Is that an issue, not really but it could be for some.

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You definitely want to make sure the flag is all the way inserted into its slot as well. If it is leaning out there is no advantage. Also if it rebounded off the flag stick chances are it could have jumped the hole if the flag was not in, hard to say.

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played a solo round Saturday. Missed 2 due to flag in; one because it got in my head and I putted to avoid it, the other about a 3' I hit a bit firmer than normally would (I typically just dribble ball in, this one was to back of cup). But that is not my issue; I found ANY time savings of not taking it out were eaten up and then some by the extra time to take it out of the cup. Ever since I got rear-ended in August I have fought back problems and with the flag in I found I literally have to kneel on the green to get the ball out. Then again, I played 18 in 2:08 with playing through one group and skipping a hole on another...but it did raise an interesting point.

I think the idea that leaving the flag in will save time on a typical, groups heading out every x minutes format, is a forlorn hope. It MIGHT save a few seconds for the first group up...but in reality, last guy putts out, half the group should be on the next tee box getting ready anyway unless they are keeping pace with the group ahead of them in which case no time is gained or lost regardless of what was done with the flag last hole. I cannot count the number of times my group has finished a hole, walk to next tee box and waited. The time to remove/not remove the flag has no relevance.
 
darthweasel said:
played a solo round Saturday. Missed 2 due to flag in; one because it got in my head and I putted to avoid it, the other about a 3' I hit a bit firmer than normally would (I typically just dribble ball in, this one was to back of cup). But that is not my issue; I found ANY time savings of not taking it out were eaten up and then some by the extra time to take it out of the cup. Ever since I got rear-ended in August I have fought back problems and with the flag in I found I literally have to kneel on the green to get the ball out. Then again, I played 18 in 2:08 with playing through one group and skipping a hole on another...but it did raise an interesting point.

I think the idea that leaving the flag in will save time on a typical, groups heading out every x minutes format, is a forlorn hope. It MIGHT save a few seconds for the first group up...but in reality, last guy putts out, half the group should be on the next tee box getting ready anyway unless they are keeping pace with the group ahead of them in which case no time is gained or lost regardless of what was done with the flag last hole. I cannot count the number of times my group has finished a hole, walk to next tee box and waited. The time to remove/not remove the flag has no relevance.
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So, you played 17, right?

Are you saying that you don't wait on the green until everyone had putted out?

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Our group plays "ready golf" everywhere BUT on the green. The closer you are to the hole the better advantage you have as each player farther away, be it one or up to three, helps give you a better idea of the green speed and break with their putts. Now, the one advantage to leaving the pin in is if the guy or guys farthest away would typically have the pin tended. Now, no waiting for someone to go up and do that. Once that player has putted he has to either go tap in, mark or get the ball out of the hole and is right there at the pin to pull it if the next guy wants it pulled. No time necessarily gained or lost and no disruption to the "flow" that we perceive. In our group, once one of the guys has the pin pulled we have yet to have anyone ask to have it put back in.
 
chriso97 said:
It finally happened today ... I hit a short putt dead centre and it hit the flag and jumped out :(. ... The flags here are quite chunky .. so I think maybe that was the issue. Still sux though.

Have also noticed you don't get the sound of the ball dropping into the cup ... Is that an issue, not really but it could be for some.

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Yeah, you have to Guage the flag sticks. Some are very fat at one course I play. At another course they're always leaning, so I have to make sure they are straight.

On your second point, I agree. I'm a flag in guy, but the only drawback is missing that satisfying sound of the ball dropping.

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OGputtnfool said:
So, you played 17, right?

Are you saying that you don't wait on the green until everyone had putted out?

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yes, technically 17 though of course, particularly when it is off-season solo round and not recordable it would be really odd to say "I played 17" as the generally accepted thing to say is "I played 9", "18", or "I played a round" and also when, if other people were with me, there are explicit rules for how to record it so by RoG I would be considered to have played 18...not real sure what your point is on that.


And apparently my green etiquette needs explained: If I am the first to hole out, I go and pick up the flag, ready to put it back in after the last player putts out. I am close to the hole and generally have the flag in the hole seconds after they have retrieved their ball (or, more frequently, after someone in the group has assessed "that's a gimme" and they have raked the ball back as I play a lot of either 2-man scramble or casual rounds)
If I am second to hole out and the first player has not picked up the flag, I execute that function. If they have already got the flag, I proceed off the green to ready myself for the next hole. As a dedicated walker whenever possible, that can and often does mean begin moving toward the next hole unless of course there is some pressing reason I need to watch a putt (tournament play, for example, I may very well watch so I can attest to the score...though more often than not I can watch as I am returning my putter to the bag, getting the correct tee for the next shot. This allows me to shoot the flag on par 3s, shoot any potential trouble shots on other holes and have that information ready.
Conversely, if I am the last to hole out, if another player has the flag in hand, I pull my ball and am walking towards the next hole almost before they can move to replace the flag. If nobody picked up the flag, a rare but not unheard of occurrence, I do so, replace it and move towards the next hole.

As a general rule, I find it rather obnoxious if people have putted out and are lollygagging around for no apparent reason. It is not unusual though also not common in some random pairings for me to putt out, pick up and replace the flag, and arrive at the next tee box before some playing partners have finished their random conversation and left the green they had finished before me. But I am used to golfers having marginal to no awareness of what is going on around them. And I try to be generous about that as I myself am slowing down. Injuries have already slowed me enough that last year I would have played 18...I''m sorry, 17....at that course, solo, in anywhere from an hour and a half to 1:40 and this year it was over 2. I cannot walk as fast ever since the guy rear-ended me. I take that into account when watching others.

With that said, I also minimize wasted time and movement. Few and far between are the times I am seen wandering back to the opposite side of the green to retrieve a club I left well out of my path to the next hole or standing around talking while others putt out. But I am not surprised by folks that do.
 
darthweasel said:
yes, technically 17 though of course, particularly when it is off-season solo round and not recordable it would be really odd to say "I played 17" as the generally accepted thing to say is "I played 9", "18", or "I played a round" and also when, if other people were with me, there are explicit rules for how to record it so by RoG I would be considered to have played 18...not real sure what your point is on that.


And apparently my green etiquette needs explained: If I am the first to hole out, I go and pick up the flag, ready to put it back in after the last player putts out. I am close to the hole and generally have the flag in the hole seconds after they have retrieved their ball (or, more frequently, after someone in the group has assessed "that's a gimme" and they have raked the ball back as I play a lot of either 2-man scramble or casual rounds)
If I am second to hole out and the first player has not picked up the flag, I execute that function. If they have already got the flag, I proceed off the green to ready myself for the next hole. As a dedicated walker whenever possible, that can and often does mean begin moving toward the next hole unless of course there is some pressing reason I need to watch a putt (tournament play, for example, I may very well watch so I can attest to the score...though more often than not I can watch as I am returning my putter to the bag, getting the correct tee for the next shot. This allows me to shoot the flag on par 3s, shoot any potential trouble shots on other holes and have that information ready.
Conversely, if I am the last to hole out, if another player has the flag in hand, I pull my ball and am walking towards the next hole almost before they can move to replace the flag. If nobody picked up the flag, a rare but not unheard of occurrence, I do so, replace it and move towards the next hole.

As a general rule, I find it rather obnoxious if people have putted out and are lollygagging around for no apparent reason. It is not unusual though also not common in some random pairings for me to putt out, pick up and replace the flag, and arrive at the next tee box before some playing partners have finished their random conversation and left the green they had finished before me. But I am used to golfers having marginal to no awareness of what is going on around them. And I try to be generous about that as I myself am slowing down. Injuries have already slowed me enough that last year I would have played 18...I''m sorry, 17....at that course, solo, in anywhere from an hour and a half to 1:40 and this year it was over 2. I cannot walk as fast ever since the guy rear-ended me. I take that into account when watching others.

With that said, I also minimize wasted time and movement. Few and far between are the times I am seen wandering back to the opposite side of the green to retrieve a club I left well out of my path to the next hole or standing around talking while others putt out. But I am not surprised by folks that do.
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Nice reply. I had to look back to see if it was @rollin or @SmiterofProV1x that answered that. You could give them both a run for average post length, I think.

I just thought it odd that you said you played 18 when, in reality, you played 17. :alien:

I was always taught that its poor etiquette to leave the green before everyone is done putting. Sort of along the lines of extending a hand to shake after the round. I know some folks don't care about that kind of stuff, but some of us think etiquette is an integral part of the game.

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darthweasel said:
yes, technically 17 though of course, particularly when it is off-season solo round and not recordable it would be really odd to say "I played 17" as the generally accepted thing to say is "I played 9", "18", or "I played a round" and also when, if other people were with me, there are explicit rules for how to record it so by RoG I would be considered to have played 18...not real sure what your point is on that.


And apparently my green etiquette needs explained: If I am the first to hole out, I go and pick up the flag, ready to put it back in after the last player putts out. I am close to the hole and generally have the flag in the hole seconds after they have retrieved their ball (or, more frequently, after someone in the group has assessed "that's a gimme" and they have raked the ball back as I play a lot of either 2-man scramble or casual rounds)
If I am second to hole out and the first player has not picked up the flag, I execute that function. If they have already got the flag, I proceed off the green to ready myself for the next hole. As a dedicated walker whenever possible, that can and often does mean begin moving toward the next hole unless of course there is some pressing reason I need to watch a putt (tournament play, for example, I may very well watch so I can attest to the score...though more often than not I can watch as I am returning my putter to the bag, getting the correct tee for the next shot. This allows me to shoot the flag on par 3s, shoot any potential trouble shots on other holes and have that information ready.
Conversely, if I am the last to hole out, if another player has the flag in hand, I pull my ball and am walking towards the next hole almost before they can move to replace the flag. If nobody picked up the flag, a rare but not unheard of occurrence, I do so, replace it and move towards the next hole.

As a general rule, I find it rather obnoxious if people have putted out and are lollygagging around for no apparent reason. It is not unusual though also not common in some random pairings for me to putt out, pick up and replace the flag, and arrive at the next tee box before some playing partners have finished their random conversation and left the green they had finished before me. But I am used to golfers having marginal to no awareness of what is going on around them. And I try to be generous about that as I myself am slowing down. Injuries have already slowed me enough that last year I would have played 18...I''m sorry, 17....at that course, solo, in anywhere from an hour and a half to 1:40 and this year it was over 2. I cannot walk as fast ever since the guy rear-ended me. I take that into account when watching others.

With that said, I also minimize wasted time and movement. Few and far between are the times I am seen wandering back to the opposite side of the green to retrieve a club I left well out of my path to the next hole or standing around talking while others putt out. But I am not surprised by folks that do.
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I know...long post. Don't read if anyone doesn't want to. Nobody forcing it.
I certainly appreciate and understand your desire and general efforts to play around and on the greens efficiently as for trying to keep a respectful flow on them. From what you sound like in your post Im going to assume you (a lot like myself and a number of folks out there) generally are aware of and go about your business in such a fashion where as to help keep the flow of the group moving when about the greens.

You can probably name many things we do to help and keep awareness of it and act upon it. . I always go out of my way to walk my cart to the same side as the next tee box. Even if in the other side I walk fast there and also eye up the green on my way back to my ball area (whether on or off) so that part is done. be ready and willing to go out of turn, take it upon myself to announce Im going to chip or putt out of turn while if someone else is not yet prepared nor yet at their ball. And that often happens even when others have less walking to do than myself. And any number of other things that just help the flow to keep moving smooth if I can at all help it. And a lot os scenario dependant as for where everyone else is and what they are doing. Allkinds of different efforts may unfold. Whatever helps and often its a lot of things that is not really for me nor about my shot but simply make efforts about keeping a smooth flow. .


Problem is there are too many who do not and too many who are not efficient, much too deliberate, and do much too many things unnecessarily slow and even things that are unnecessary to begin with. I mean you get near or on the greens and you want to make the effort to be efficient and even go out iof your way a tad to do it yet you often meet resistance by those who are not aware and don't even think twice. And a lot of people who simply can only do things they way they see fit cause its all about them and never about the group. Ive spoken in a different thread about the ridiculous antics that too often take place with too many peoples normal ways while near and on the greens and quite frankly its selfish and has no awareness nor concern for keeping things flowing better. It actually becomes a flow detriment. And what often happens is a lot of people who are aware and who do make the efforts end up having to unfairly end upmaking even more of them and even to the point where you now start to even sacrifice your own play a bit just to make up for the detriment to flow the other is selfishly causing. And often they don't have any idea they are even guilty of anything/ They never once give a thought that your basically covering their ass. They actually use your extra efforts to do what they need for their own self as they have no feeling at al as for flow and pace.

Among and in addition to many things like the whole failing to putt out, lifting marking and cleaning every putt, never out of turn,etc,etc a hunded other things....part of all that is the pin. Needing to pull it for chips while others have to yet chip themselves, and dealing with the pin in general has (especially with these deliberate selfish people) who don't know how to be efficient at all and never give it a thought has always been something much more detrimental to flow than we think. Especially when added to all the other antics that take place. Its just that dealing with it has always been normal and thus that has always hidden just how much it can be a detriment to flow on top of everything else vs if we don't ever have to concern with it all. The efforts and cooperation for efficient flow just fails too much and too often around and on the greens and leaving the pin alone will certainly be one thing that will help that flow and I feel more than most might think it will. It will also make life a bit easier for those who make the extra efforts to help. You know.....nothing takes too much tome until we add all the nothings up. The pin to many people has been one those nothings. At least is such opinion to those who have had their asses covered by those who make the good efforts.
 
So far in 2019 I’m 72 for 72 of holes played with the flag in.

Boooooooyah!
 
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