We've launched the new forums! Read more here

Is Colin Montgomerie Worthy of the Hall of Fame?

Xt1ncT-NZ said:
really? Weaker than the Nationwide Tour?

If your argument resorts to that there's no point even putting across reasoned debate. The fact of the matter is he beat all comers on the Tour he wanted to play and where he was comfortable. Sure he wasn't as comfortable in the US as he could have been but that doesn't take away from his 31 wins.

He won the PGA at Wentworth 3 consecutive times - this event is considered as an equal in status to the Euros as the Players is to the US.

He spent 400 weeks in the Top 10 in the world, highest ranking 2.

He won all over the World:

England
Scotland
Sweden
Dubai
Hong Kong
Spain
He won the 1997 Andersen Consulting World Championship of Golf - a forerunner to the WGCs
South Africa
China
Australia
America (ok that was the Skins Challenge :) )

I suggest that this career is better than almost everyone who played in his era. The only Europeans with better careers would be Faldo, and maybe Jose-Maria.

Langer's career was pretty much over by the time Monty came good, as was Seve's.

There's really no one from his era on the US Tour with a comparable record either - Phil, Ernie and Vijay about the only ones who could compare, and of course Tiger who didn't really turn up until Monty started to decline.

At the end of the day I get it - you don't like him and you don't like to let facts and his record get in the way.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Actually for many that is not it at all. Clearly I think it might be on the flip side, but the truth is, its obvious he was a fringe (at best) applicant because he did not get ANYWHERE near the votes to get in. Not even close. So while someone can throw stats out to support either side of this argument, there is only one absolute. He never won a major or WGC (where the best are always in attendance). For many (including a large amount of HOF voters), that means he does not belong in the Hall of Fame.
 
Here is an example of something interesting. Take a guy like Ryo. He has won 10 times on the Asia Tour and is merely 21 years of age. If he were to stay on that tour and not improve at all as a player, he would obliterate 31 wins with little issue. Lets say he ended up with 40 wins on that tour (which he could have by the time he was 28 with not much improvement. He would shatter the money list on that tour with little issue most would think and someone would be able to make the same case that he was a Hall of Famer.

Would he be? Most would say absolutely not, because he did not win against the best in the world. Because the argument is always "which tour is the best and the deepest" the WGC and the Majors act as the equalizers to define talent in the minds of many.
 
JB said:
Actually for many that is not it at all. Clearly I think it might be on the flip side, but the truth is, its obvious he was a fringe (at best) applicant because he did not get ANYWHERE near the votes to get in. Not even close. So while someone can throw stats out to support either side of this argument, there is only one absolute. He never won a major or WGC (where the best are always in attendance). For many (including a large amount of HOF voters), that means he does not belong in the Hall of Fame.
Click to expand...

I will disagree on this one. Monty's dominance on the other side of the pond ran from 1993-99. The WGC events didnt begin until 1999. The WGC events he played in were when he was on the downside of his career, so its hard for me to agree with the WGC argument. His major record and RC record speak for themselves. Unfortunately for Monty, they are polar opposites on the spectrum.
 
JB said:
For many (including a large amount of HOF voters), that means he does not belong in the Hall of Fame.
Click to expand...
is that all that counts? Wins?

Do other things not count as well?

His influence over the game in Europe is huge. Plus his record in Team Events is unrivaled - Faldo has a slightly better RC record, whereas Monty has also won Team Events such as the World Cup of Golf and the Alfred Dunhill Links.

JB - is there a list somewhere of who votes for the HOF?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
ddxu said:
I will disagree on this one. Monty's dominance on the other side of the pond ran from 1993-99. The WGC events didnt begin until 1999. The WGC events he played in were when he was on the downside of his career, so its hard for me to agree with the WGC argument. His major record and RC record speak for themselves. Unfortunately for Monty, they are polar opposites on the spectrum.
Click to expand...

To some degree, but the flip side is people are quick to point out that after the 1999 year, he led at a WGC event and won tournaments on his home tour including one at St. Andrews.
 
Xt1ncT-NZ said:
is that all that counts? Wins?

Do other things not count as well?

His influence over the game in Europe is huge. Plus his record in Team Events is unrivaled - Faldo has a slightly better RC record, whereas Monty has also won Team Events such as the World Cup of Golf and the Alfred Dunhill Links.

JB - is there a list somewhere of who votes for the HOF?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Growing the game can get someone into the HOF, but not as a player. They have other areas for people to get in, such as lifetime achievement, which I think Monty would have fit perfectly for. His growth of the game in Europe is undeniable.
 
ddxu said:
I will disagree on this one. Monty's dominance on the other side of the pond ran from 1993-99. The WGC events didnt begin until 1999. The WGC events he played in were when he was on the downside of his career, so its hard for me to agree with the WGC argument. His major record and RC record speak for themselves. Unfortunately for Monty, they are polar opposites on the spectrum.
Click to expand...

Very good point.

JB - I get your Ryo argument and here's my rebuttal.

How do the Tours around the World rank?

In my humble opinion it would go:

PGA
European - I don't think it will be long until the Race to Dubai is on the same footing as the FedEx Cup due to the amount of money brig thrown at it.

Nationwide
Challenge Tour

Japan
One Asia


Under those there are minor tours like the Australasian Tour etc.

If this ranking is correct 31 Japan Tour victories wouldn't be anywhere near as prestigious as 31 European Victories.

The argument is probably moot as its he now joining the PGA Tour?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Im sure people rank the tours differently and some think one tour is worth more than another. I think for some, his reign atop the Euro Tour was at a rather weak stage in the tour's existence. Is that correct? Who knows in reality. But it does have merit to the debate. If someone on the Asia Tour's wins are not as important to someone on the Euro Tour, that would make (according to your ranking) wins on the Euro Tour not as important as wins on the PGA Tour.

Then add in the performance when "stepping up" to the PGA Tour or the majors and you have the reason he did not qualify (based on voting).
 
JB said:
Im sure people rank the tours differently and some think one tour is worth more than another. I think for some, his reign atop the Euro Tour was at a rather weak stage in the tour's existence. Is that correct? Who knows in reality. But it does have merit to the debate. If someone on the Asia Tour's wins are not as important to someone on the Euro Tour, that would make (according to your ranking) wins on the Euro Tour not as important as wins on the PGA Tour.

Then add in the performance when "stepping up" to the PGA Tour or the majors and you have the reason he did not qualify (based on voting).
Click to expand...

Ding ding ding this is exactly ya he won 31 tournaments but againt tiger phil ernie vijay all the big guys he didn't win

when im supposed to be working im on here with Tapatalk
 
armygolfer77 said:
Ding ding ding this is exactly ya he won 31 tournaments but againt tiger phil ernie vijay all the big guys he didn't win

when im supposed to be working im on here with Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Tiger doesn't really come into the equation so much as the others as he didn't really come in the scene until 96/97 - against whom he did win.

Ernie and Vijay both played quite a bit on the European Tour.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Xt1ncT-NZ said:
Tiger doesn't really come into the equation so much as the others as he didn't really come in the scene until 96/97 - against whom he did win.

Ernie and Vijay both played quite a bit on the European Tour.
Click to expand...
AND, they also won a few times (34 for Singh, 19 for Els) on the PGA Tour. Els also won FOUR majors, and 27 times on the European Tour. Singh won THREE majors, and 13 times on the European Tour.

Oh, and they both reached Number 1 in the world.
 
Smallville said:
AND, they also won a few times on the PGA Tour. Els also won FOUR majors, and 27 times on the European Tour. Singh won THREE majors, and 13 times on the European Tour.
Click to expand...

and this is what im gettin at these guys could still come over to the PGA and win and monty couldnt and i am younger (21) but i do remember seeing tigers name and monty in the same tournaments yes monty won at that time but it was on the euro tour not the PGA where 99% of your big time players go to play such as 6 of the top 10 in world who are from outside of the US but are having success on the PGA just in his time monty wasnt one of them
 
armygolfer77 said:
just in his time monty wasnt one of them
Click to expand...
400 weeks in the top 10 in the world - that's almost 8 years!!

You're telling me that someone ranked in the top echelon of the game for such an extended time doesn't have a HoF career?

Sorry but I flat out disagree. His career is missing a major, nothing else.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Xt1ncT-NZ said:
400 weeks in the top 10 in the world - that's almost 8 years!!

You're telling me that someone ranked in the top echelon of the game for such an extended time doesn't have a HoF career?

Sorry but I flat out disagree. His career is missing a major, nothing else.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


major victories also

but also if everyone is on one tour duking it out every week then that leaves another tour to be dominated yes he was good on the euro tour but again most of the guys were on the pga tour its where the money and fame was and is to this day
 
Xt1ncT-NZ said:
really? Weaker than the Nationwide Tour?

If your argument resorts to that there's no point even putting across reasoned debate. The fact of the matter is he beat all comers on the Tour he wanted to play and where he was comfortable. Sure he wasn't as comfortable in the US as he could have been but that doesn't take away from his 31 wins.

He won the PGA at Wentworth 3 consecutive times - this event is considered as an equal in status to the Euros as the Players is to the US.

He spent 400 weeks in the Top 10 in the world, highest ranking 2.

He won all over the World:

England
Scotland
Sweden
Dubai
Hong Kong
Spain
He won the 1997 Andersen Consulting World Championship of Golf - a forerunner to the WGCs
South Africa
China
Australia
America (ok that was the Skins Challenge :) )

I suggest that this career is better than almost everyone who played in his era. The only Europeans with better careers would be Faldo, and maybe Jose-Maria.

Langer's career was pretty much over by the time Monty came good, as was Seve's.

There's really no one from his era on the US Tour with a comparable record either - Phil, Ernie and Vijay about the only ones who could compare, and of course Tiger who didn't really turn up until Monty started to decline.

At the end of the day I get it - you don't like him and you don't like to let facts and his record get in the way.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
First of all, I have nothing against Monty. I have actually always admired his action but he didn't have it mentally to close the large events. Had he one a few big events against the big boys, I might see it differently. I've given him his props for winning 31 times. When he was winning, the euro tour was widely considered in the industry as a distance second to the PGA tour. Winning on a tour that doesn't even carry a few of the best in the world means he beat a great deal of no names on the euro tour.

I simply don't think his number of wins is worthy of the world HOF. He didn't have the 65% of the votes to get in. his peers didn't think he deserved it either.
 
Tadashi70 said:
First of all, I have nothing against Monty. I have actually always admired his action but he didn't have it mentally to close the large events. Had he one a few big events against the big boys, I might see it differently. I've given him his props for winning 31 times. When he was winning, the euro tour was widely considered in the industry as a distance second to the PGA tour. Winning on a tour that doesn't even carry a few of the best in the world means he beat a great deal of no names on the euro tour.

I simply don't think his number of wins is worthy of the world HOF. He didn't have the 65% of the votes to get in. his peers didn't think he deserved it either.
Click to expand...


this is what im trying to get at as well im not trying to take away from his 31 victories because yes 31 wins is 31 wins but like freddie said When he was winning, the euro tour was widely considered in the industry as a distance second to the PGA tour. Winning on a tour that doesn't even carry a few of the best in the world means he beat a great deal of no names on the euro tour.

i had a discussion with someone today about this and this was brought up if a major league starting pitcher never wins a single game in his career but goes on to play ball in say japan its still pro baseball but would he ever make it into the pro baseball hall of fame? negatron and why is that? cuz he didnt win on the big stage the big stage of golf is the pga tour has been for a long time and always will be
 
yes, no doubt
 
armygolfer77 said:
i had a discussion with someone today about this and this was brought up if a major league starting pitcher never wins a single game in his career but goes on to play ball in say japan its still pro baseball but would he ever make it into the pro baseball hall of fame? negatron and why is that? cuz he didnt win on the big stage the big stage of golf is the pga tour has been for a long time and always will be
Click to expand...

Baseball is an American game, that's irrelevant.
 
Anyone read the Raymond Floyd article from the March 2013 Golf magazine? Floyd said he is upset with the HoF for letting in players over the last 10 years that do not deserve to get in. He said they have lowered the bar.

Just one golfer's opinion, but he is a HoFer.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Never heard of him if that says anything. But then I am young.
 
You cannot be serious?? thats an insult to golf not to know who colin montgomerie is. WOW
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top