Dave Pelz's Short Game Bible
- Staff
- #502
Perfect example was yesterday for me. Longest par 4 on the course. Hit the drive sold and it kicked in to a fairway bunker. Instead of forcing the issue with a long hybird I took and 8 and put it to 75 yards with no fear of that next shot
I think one should learn the game from the green back which would mean a lot of time spent with short shots around the green initially and especially putting. I just tend to think these are more feel shots and thus that is why the first thing that goes if you haven't played in a while is your short game. The fact that you say it turns up more often would seem to me to prove you need more full shot practice or better course management.
I am not talking about 30 yards from the pin when I say 30 yard shots, I am talking about 30 yards from the green, but really am more concerned with whatever is your "no man's land" area for less than full shots. I do realize that their are some people that are better at less than full shots than full shots, but I would say that is a low percentage of the golfers. If it is your strength from say 50 yards that would be an ideal yardage for you to lay up.
I also agree that confidence is the most important part of golf and knowing that you have an answer for every occasion will surely increase confidence, so that is a very positive point on these shots. It just seems to me that when most of the best golfers in the world who can pull off these shots much better than most of us and prefer not to get into these situations should tell us something. Of course there are always exceptions to this and some people like the less than full shots.
I am not talking about 30 yards from the pin when I say 30 yard shots, I am talking about 30 yards from the green, but really am more concerned with whatever is your "no man's land" area for less than full shots. I do realize that their are some people that are better at less than full shots than full shots, but I would say that is a low percentage of the golfers. If it is your strength from say 50 yards that would be an ideal yardage for you to lay up.
I also agree that confidence is the most important part of golf and knowing that you have an answer for every occasion will surely increase confidence, so that is a very positive point on these shots. It just seems to me that when most of the best golfers in the world who can pull off these shots much better than most of us and prefer not to get into these situations should tell us something. Of course there are always exceptions to this and some people like the less than full shots.
I would agree with you that amateurs do need these skills more than tour pros, but at the same time we have less time to practice and need to allocate practice time accordingly. Whatever works for each individual golfer is the best course to take on working with ones game, I would say.
30 yards is largely irrelevant. With Pelz system there are 4 swings. Any of those 4 swings could theoretically be at play numerous times per round. Yes, you can manage this with course management. But that misses the point - all things being equal we should get the ball closer to the pin when shooting for a closer distance. So although we can manage to 120 (or whatever) yards and leave ourselves a full (insert club) to the pin, we should get closer to the pin on average from say 60 yards, if we have our technique down.
Totally agree. It would seem to make sense that anyone should be able to get it closer to the hole the closer they are from the pin i.e. someone 40 yards from the hole should be closer than someone from 100 yards. The trouble with this is it is not always the case. I play with a lot of golfers who have handicaps in the 2 to 6 range and they are usually worse from 50 yards than the 12 to 15 handicap golfers. The only reason I can think that is the case is they have less of those shots and are not comfortable with them where as the higher handicap golfer has this shot 5 or 6 times a round and doesn't sweat it because he knows he will hit some good and some bad shots from this distance.
Don't get me wrong I am a proponent of the short game first and it is the quickest way to lower scores in my opinion, but course management gets overlooked so much and especially by the high handicap golfer IMO. Most high handicap golfers could cut at least 4 shots off their handicap with better course management and this requires no practice or time spent, just the discipline and to be honest about ones game and work around those factors. Again just my opinion and I realize most don't play this way or like to play this way, I just have so many limitations to my game I have found this works for me. I say do whatever works for you and gives you the most enjoyment in this game we all love.
Buckjob
My Friend's Call Me Drew
i have been using a lot of 1/2 and 3/4 shots with irons when its windy and seeing great results. and i agree Amateurs see those shots much more than 2-3 times a round!
i think amateurs spend to much time on hitting a bucket of balls using just a driver than practicing these kinds of shots. i MAY hit 5 balls with my driver at the range every other time i'm there and thats stretching it. theres no reason not to practice 100 yards and in shots i see them almost every other hole if not more.
i hate course management. all i want to do is BOMB it as far as i possibly can and have the shortest second shot i can. i bet if you looked at percentages you'd hit way more shots on the green from 100 yards than 130. to me a GIR is going to be a par. and thats the way i play the game. i'm not saying laying up to a number is a bad thing... and theres times i know i have to hit a hybrid off the tee because i just can't hit driver but you are making statements that just don't work for everyone... i think most high handicaps would rather have a 100 yard shot than a 150 shot cause they laid up as long as they can keep a driver in play. and my pelz system also goes up to 120 yards and in so i say i practice working on those shots 75% of my range practice time.
Buckjob, I totally agree with you on hitting drivers on the range it should be all clubs but especially clubs you will be hitting on your approach shot, if that is 50 yards 150 yards or whatever. I also agree that most will hit more greens from 100 than from 150 but from 70 versus 130 I'm not so sure (anything less than a full shot). I have so many limitations in my game that is the only way I can score, so course management plays an important part in my game although like all I don't always choose the prudent shot for the situation.
I think bomb and gauge is an excellent way to play golf because it takes so many clubs out of play and one only needs to practice with a few clubs. Try to play bomb and gauge when your bomb is 220 yards, that is my dilemma.
When you hit a full shot all you have to concern yourself with is direction as you know you have the correct yardage club in hand, but when you have less than a full shot you have to concern yourself with distance and direction. So two factors instead of one I would prefer only one. That's just my take on it.
I think bomb and gauge is an excellent way to play golf because it takes so many clubs out of play and one only needs to practice with a few clubs. Try to play bomb and gauge when your bomb is 220 yards, that is my dilemma.
When you hit a full shot all you have to concern yourself with is direction as you know you have the correct yardage club in hand, but when you have less than a full shot you have to concern yourself with distance and direction. So two factors instead of one I would prefer only one. That's just my take on it.
Buckjob
My Friend's Call Me Drew
If you need to worry that bad about direction on 100 yards and in you really aren't worried about scoring or course management. And that's the big reason you can practice those pelz shots you don't have to think about distance you know the 1/2 swing with my 52* is gonna go 90 yards. There's not really much thinking involved. I read my card and hit that shot. I don't take much full shots with any wedge anymore.
I am not a skilled golfer but maybe I should have used the term aim, as I have issues with aim on occasion. I would still say it is better for me to concern myself with one factor instead of two, just me I guess. I actually don't have a problem with less than full shots, I think of them as more of feel type shots, though. I think Pelz has a good system for the short game, although I tend to like Stan Utley's approach. Whatever works is what you should do. The short game is definitely the way to lower scores.
Gomer Golfer
New member
Went to the range today to work on the techniques outlined in the book. I only have a 50 & 56 right now, so somewhat limited, but it's working. I'm seeing repeatable consistency in all three swing lengths and it feels good. Looking forward to expanding my wedge compliment and probably pick up a 60 & 64. I also played around with the finesse swing with some of my other clubs after hitting two buckets with the wedges and found that it works there very well. Needing some distance, but wanting to keep the ball down out of the wind is one situation in which I could see this being very advantageous.
Got a tee time Monday for 18, might try and get to the par three course tomorrow or Friday and I'll post some more about actual results on the course.
Got a tee time Monday for 18, might try and get to the par three course tomorrow or Friday and I'll post some more about actual results on the course.
Buckjob
My Friend's Call Me Drew
Good to hear maybe expand with a PW or 9 iron if you want more options. I use my PW 50* 56* and 60*
Gomer Golfer
New member
I did play around with my PW, but even the 7:30 has some distance on it. The finesse swings work, but they really don't cover the 0 - 100 range. Dang the clubmakers for changing the dang PW to 45-46 degrees and creating the GW/AW.
- Staff
- #514
For me, the PW is integral to the finesse swing. 7:30 is what I play when I need a lower flighted 70 yard shot and 9:00 will give me a nice 100 yarder. Keep working at it and you might find it useful.
Buckjob
My Friend's Call Me Drew
I agree with hawk. I also struggle with the 7:30 swing the most and have changed to a different swing completely for that.
Hypothetical: You have 60 yards to the pin. No obstructions in the way. The grass is tightly mowed and norml/firm. You have a great lie. You can either go 9 o'clock shot with a 60* and lob it in there or you can go 7:30 shot with say a 45* and run it up there. Do you keep it low to the ground or do you try to throw a dart? I'm curious what you guys choose.
- Staff
- #518
I almost always take a 7:30 swing with my gap wedge there. Rarely pull the lob wedge, unless I need to open the face or something.
I can get a higher or lower trajectory with ball position and follow through using the gap wedge. Sort of depends where the pin is for me. Towards the front and I'll try to hit it higher and vise-versa.
I can get a higher or lower trajectory with ball position and follow through using the gap wedge. Sort of depends where the pin is for me. Towards the front and I'll try to hit it higher and vise-versa.
TripleBogieTim
Long lost sheep
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With that scenario and if there are no ridges or hills in the green that I might need to carry...I go with the 7:30 shot with a 50* and hit a low checker...that will roll out to the pin.
Buckjob
My Friend's Call Me Drew
for me it would prob be the 9 oclock shot with a 60* i feel more comfortable with that swing and also theres very little guessing on what the ball will do when it hits and what the roll out will be.
Thanks for the feedback guys. This came up during a playing lesson recently. I was left with the shot described to a pin front right with a green that slopes left. Bunkers left and right. I pulled PW to run it up there and my teaching pro said he prefers to see me hit a lofted shot. It left me wondering about it. I know from the book (and elsewhere) that it is generally better to keep the ball closer to the ground. On the other hand, at some point does distance matter? I started to think it was more reliable to go with the lofted shot because it will more or less land and stop.
FWIW the teaching pro also started talking to me about breaking the green up into quadrants - at first front, middle and back thirds, and eventually 4 quadrants created by intersecting horizontal and vertical lines - and playing to specific quadrants with our approach shots. I'm sure many of you are probably aware of this concept but it was new to me. I tend to think about going at the pin vs. hitting to the middle of the green.
Back to the original question...I missed right with my lofted wedge and ultimately chipped and putted for the par. I dropped a 2nd ball and hit the lofted wedge wide left but on the surface and two putted for par. I didn't even sniff a birdie chance from 60ish yards on either lofted approach shot, which is pretty pathetic
FWIW the teaching pro also started talking to me about breaking the green up into quadrants - at first front, middle and back thirds, and eventually 4 quadrants created by intersecting horizontal and vertical lines - and playing to specific quadrants with our approach shots. I'm sure many of you are probably aware of this concept but it was new to me. I tend to think about going at the pin vs. hitting to the middle of the green.
Back to the original question...I missed right with my lofted wedge and ultimately chipped and putted for the par. I dropped a 2nd ball and hit the lofted wedge wide left but on the surface and two putted for par. I didn't even sniff a birdie chance from 60ish yards on either lofted approach shot, which is pretty pathetic
Thanks for the feedback guys. This came up during a playing lesson recently. I was left with the shot described to a pin front right with a green that slopes left. Bunkers left and right. I pulled PW to run it up there and my teaching pro said he prefers to see me hit a lofted shot. It left me wondering about it. I know from the book (and elsewhere) that it is generally better to keep the ball closer to the ground. On the other hand, at some point does distance matter? I started to think it was more reliable to go with the lofted shot because it will more or less land and stop.
FWIW the teaching pro also started talking to me about breaking the green up into quadrants - at first front, middle and back thirds, and eventually 4 quadrants created by intersecting horizontal and vertical lines - and playing to specific quadrants with our approach shots. I'm sure many of you are probably aware of this concept but it was new to me. I tend to think about going at the pin vs. hitting to the middle of the green.
Back to the original question...I missed right with my lofted wedge and ultimately chipped and putted for the par. I dropped a 2nd ball and hit the lofted wedge wide left but on the surface and two putted for par. I didn't even sniff a birdie chance from 60ish yards on either lofted approach shot, which is pretty pathetic
Do whatever you are most comfortable with on the 60 yard shot, and then commit to the shot and pull the trigger. I'm not saying your teacher is wrong, just you have to be committed to the shot and when you change your shot because someone tells you to it rarely works out. However, when learning something new this is bound to happen a few times. It takes time to build confidence with a new shot.
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Buckjob
My Friend's Call Me Drew
Thanks for the feedback guys. This came up during a playing lesson recently. I was left with the shot described to a pin front right with a green that slopes left. Bunkers left and right. I pulled PW to run it up there and my teaching pro said he prefers to see me hit a lofted shot. It left me wondering about it. I know from the book (and elsewhere) that it is generally better to keep the ball closer to the ground. On the other hand, at some point does distance matter? I started to think it was more reliable to go with the lofted shot because it will more or less land and stop.
FWIW the teaching pro also started talking to me about breaking the green up into quadrants - at first front, middle and back thirds, and eventually 4 quadrants created by intersecting horizontal and vertical lines - and playing to specific quadrants with our approach shots. I'm sure many of you are probably aware of this concept but it was new to me. I tend to think about going at the pin vs. hitting to the middle of the green.
Back to the original question...I missed right with my lofted wedge and ultimately chipped and putted for the par. I dropped a 2nd ball and hit the lofted wedge wide left but on the surface and two putted for par. I didn't even sniff a birdie chance from 60ish yards on either lofted approach shot, which is pretty pathetic
It's funny my instructor wants me to do the exact opposite and run balls up to the hole as much as possible.